Jacen123 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUAJedi2 Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 4 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said: It was the 2 girls who confronted her who made the report of a threat. Of course, it turns out they approached Q and another student and started telling them both that they need "mental help". Q still denies she made a threat. She knows better. I This is some next-level bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 Some slight good news, principal couldn't get the same story out of witnesses. So Q is off the hook. Appeal submitted with news of false reporting and retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 On 1/7/2024 at 12:38 PM, Destiny Skywalker said: Alright, I have a restorative justice question. One of the girls approached Q on Friday and said that she was sorry for how she had behaved and didn't realize how it was affecting Q. She said can we be friends again? Q was very uncomfortable and a classmate interrupted them with a joke so she didn't have to answer. I have a feeling they are going to find that the girls were indeed bullying, but they are going to have them do some sort of meeting where they apologize and hope everything goes back to sunshine and rainbows. However, Q's trust is completely broken. She isn't ready to be friends. I don't want her to be put into a situation where she has to listen to a bunch of potentially fake apologies and be forced to accept them. Because that puts the pressure on her to be the bigger person, when really all she wants is for the behavior to stop. We talked about forgiveness and how we don't have to grant it just because someone asks for it, and forgiveness is often not immediate and takes time and a history of changed behavior. I especially don't want her to be shamed for saying no I need time, because I think honesty is important and these girls should also learn that forgiveness is not automatic, nor should it be expected of the victim. (Bonus thought, because undiagnosed ADHD: I believe our culture expects and pushes for forgiveness because it allows people to not be accountable for our poor behavior. It's essentially a get out of jail free card that places more pressure on the victim than on the aggressor. And I do truly believe there are some offenses that cannot be forgiven: murder, rape, abuse, infidelity, etc. I think there's a difference between true forgiveness and letting go of your trauma so that it doesn't affect you as much. And that does not mean welcoming the person who wronged you into your life and acting like nothing happened.) Should I reach out to the principal preemptively to tell them not to put her into a situation where there is pressure on her to forgive them? I think I would also like to ask the principal to warn us if there is going to be any sort of meeting so I can help Q prepare for it instead of being taken by surprise. I still don't understand why a no-contact contract wouldn't work. You absolutely should tell the principal you are no longer interested in restorative conversations at this time regarding this situation and you are to be notified day of if an event happens that would trigger a RC. I would go one step farther and say RCs are completely inappropriate for habitual bullying. Restorative practices is an effective response for some behaviors some of the time, but it is absolutely not a substitute for progressive discipline. For example, restorative practices is fire prevention and to put out small fires. Progressive discipline/ behavior plans is a sprinkler system once a fire breaks out. And a fire has broken out here and there isn't a sprinkler system. I don't know how much help an attorney will help you unless you can prove that the issue of bullying is generally ignored and possibly systemic. Getting an educational advocate might let the school know your serious resulting in them being more vigilant. Unfortunately, many advocates are fucking goofs and feel like that have to be a pain in the ass of the school to justify their fees driving a wedge rather than building a bridge between families and the school. There are good ones out there. I am happy to Zoom in on your next meeting with admin and serve as an advocate for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 Thank you, I really appreciate that offer. The principal had promised me a plan by Friday morning, and it's now Tuesday night and I haven't heard boo. She hopes I'm too busy to care. We have a hearing scheduled for Friday to appeal the bullying decision. I'm not sure how productive it will be but I feel like I have to at least try. We are going to focus on how it is disruptive and causing Q to have difficulty accessing her education, as well as reporting the retaliation and false accusations. I am probably going to let my husband do the majority of the talking. He is my bad cop and very good at picking up on inconsistencies. I tend to be an optimist and assume good intentions. We did check out one last private school today. We left feeling good, Q is just very nervous about leaving her great teacher for unknowns. They had zero issues with her 504 plan, unlike the other private school who was willing to let her fail first and then intervene once that happens (which I'm not sure is entirely legal). Her therapist, who is usually a big advocate for choices and collaborative problem solving, agrees that Q's school is not a safe environment, especially with the retaliation we just saw. We need to move her in the next few weeks. We also met the STEM program teacher. She is a great fit for Q and loved Q's passion for STEM. I'm admittedly nervous about this choice because I don't know how flexible my work from home situation will be for the next 2.5 years. There is a lot of Saber rattling about needing us in the office again. I'm also not sure Q is really able to work independently 50% of the time. They really want her to put in the time, especially if the work is too easy. Then they want her to push more. Great in theory, but I'm not sure if she's THAT self motivated. I can't see her doing 6 hours a day on those 2 at home days. That's a lot to ask of a 6th grader, even one who finds school easy. We also have our upcoming remodel that is going to tear the house apart for 2-3 months. I'm not sure even I want to work from home during that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 14 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said: Thank you, I really appreciate that offer. The principal had promised me a plan by Friday morning, and it's now Tuesday night and I haven't heard boo. She hopes I'm too busy to care. We have a hearing scheduled for Friday to appeal the bullying decision. I'm not sure how productive it will be but I feel like I have to at least try. We are going to focus on how it is disruptive and causing Q to have difficulty accessing her education, as well as reporting the retaliation and false accusations. I am probably going to let my husband do the majority of the talking. He is my bad cop and very good at picking up on inconsistencies. I tend to be an optimist and assume good intentions. We did check out one last private school today. We left feeling good, Q is just very nervous about leaving her great teacher for unknowns. They had zero issues with her 504 plan, unlike the other private school who was willing to let her fail first and then intervene once that happens (which I'm not sure is entirely legal). Her therapist, who is usually a big advocate for choices and collaborative problem solving, agrees that Q's school is not a safe environment, especially with the retaliation we just saw. We need to move her in the next few weeks. We also met the STEM program teacher. She is a great fit for Q and loved Q's passion for STEM. I'm admittedly nervous about this choice because I don't know how flexible my work from home situation will be for the next 2.5 years. There is a lot of Saber rattling about needing us in the office again. I'm also not sure Q is really able to work independently 50% of the time. They really want her to put in the time, especially if the work is too easy. Then they want her to push more. Great in theory, but I'm not sure if she's THAT self motivated. I can't see her doing 6 hours a day on those 2 at home days. That's a lot to ask of a 6th grader, even one who finds school easy. We also have our upcoming remodel that is going to tear the house apart for 2-3 months. I'm not sure even I want to work from home during that. I would also focus on how the school promised interventions and how they didn't deliver and how they even enabled the bullying (one of the moms supervising lunch as a volunteer---wtf). You basically want to make the case the school was negligent in its handling of the situation. For example, the girls mom supervising at lunch or lack of an investigation (the girls reporting Q harassed them-was there an investigation, can you see witness statements, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 I had to go digging in the tech closet for a external CD/DVD drive (I have a book with a resource cd). A 4th grader asked what it was and through the conversation I found out he had no idea what a CD was at all and had heard of DVDs but wasn't quite sure what they were. I died just a little bit. Just to be clear, this is a pretty smart kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 29 minutes ago, Hobbes said: I had to go digging in the tech closet for a external CD/DVD drive (I have a book with a resource cd). A 4th grader asked what it was and through the conversation I found out he had no idea what a CD was at all and had heard of DVDs but wasn't quite sure what they were. I died just a little bit. Just to be clear, this is a pretty smart kid. I've been ragging on gen z for years for some of the things they don't know-- but that's pretty normal for very generation gap out there. The big difference is, get z is the first one to run off to social media to make a video about this "forgotten" thing they discovered and think they are sharing with the world, like how Batman used a song from the forgotten 90s, and then it ends up in my feed and I lose my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Tank said: I've been ragging on gen z for years for some of the things they don't know-- but that's pretty normal for very generation gap out there. The big difference is, get z is the first one to run off to social media to make a video about this "forgotten" thing they discovered and think they are sharing with the world, like how Batman used a song from the forgotten 90s, and then it ends up in my feed and I lose my mind. Yeah--I tried not to do the "OMG YOU DON'T KNOW" because many Gen Xers have become insufferable with the "drink out of the hose/parents weren't home/ come in when the porch light came on". I wouldn't want some old person saying to me as a kid, "you didn't know what a loom" is??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 100%, Gen X is turning out to be just as insufferable (and more right wing) than the boomers are/were. I'm determined to not be like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 I want to say Q was about 6 when we went on a short road trip and she asked to hear a certain song (Blue by Eiffel 65 lol). And we said hey sorry kid we don't have that CD (I want to say maybe Pandora wasn't working out in the middle of nowhere) and she asked what a CD was and my husband and I both expired right then and there. This is something I found cleaning out our office earlier this month. I offered it on Buy Nothing, no takers. I also found this second bit of awesomeness. Q was dying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 you can't post that without a track listing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Co-signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 When I figure out where the hell I put it, I will report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 9 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said: When I figure out where the hell I put it, I will report back. Can't you, like, play it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Hobbes said: Can't you, like, play it? On what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Burning CDs and DVDs were the days! When I first met my girlfriend, I burned her literally hundreds of movie DVDs and music CDs, and built a computer for her so she could have over 160 GB of music! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 5 hours ago, Hobbes said: Can't you, like, play it? That was the plan. I just don't remember where I put it lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeygirl Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I have nothing to play a CD on anymore. or a tape. of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 We have an ancient computer tower holding on for dear life that has a CD drive. We met with some director about the appeal. I think the problem is that they want us to demonstrate that her grades are failing or something to qualify for impacting the educational environment. We argued that academics are only one area, but that her social-emotional learning is being interrupted and that she is unable to access her education because she has taken numerous sick days and needed to come home early because she is too anxious to stay at school. We did emphasize that the school is claiming restorative conversations took place when they did not, or the bullying continued after an attempt at a restorative conversation. I also brought up the moms' influence as regular volunteers and having younger siblings who the principal will have to deal with for years to come. The retaliation and false reporting is being handled separately. I honestly think they are going to uphold the original decision. I'm not sure how to demonstrate bullying or Harassment at this point. If it's not this, then what the heck is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Sounds like a classic case of not wanting to take responsibility. We had Luke's ARD meeting last week. They're changing his one-on-one supports. He's now doing well enough in reading/LA to no longer require an aide to be with him every day during that time. Instead, they're going to reallocate that time to having an aide with him while they're doing individual work during stations (where they rotate through several stations and one-on-one time with the teacher). He apparently cannot stay on track by himself. He's easily distracted. Shocking, I know. So yay and *sigh*. Also, Luke received an Evite for another kid's birthday party, so I told him that he got an invite to this kid's birthday and his response was "ugh, no. We're not friends. I don't want to go." Not what I was expecting but ok. But then when I went to decline the invite I noticed that only like 12 invites went out and several look like they're to family members. They didn't invite a lot of people to this party, and somehow Luke was chosen. I also didn't recognize any of the other people who were invited, so I sent a quick screenshot to a friend of mine who regularly volunteers at the school and knows everyone I swear. She didn't recognize anyone either, but she told me that this kid is also in the special education program. So I questioned Luke a bit more (always a fun exercise with a child with an expressive speech impairment). By this point it had been a couple of hours, so I started the conversation over. (Mind you, we do this with Luke all the time. If we get an unexpected response, it likely has more to do with his circumstances in that exact moment than anything lasting. Example, if we ask him if he's hungry when he's actively doing something, anything really, he will say "no". But if we wait until he pauses for a second or force him to break his attention and then ask again, he'll change his answer to "oh yeah!") So this 2nd convo went a bit like this: Me: Luke, you got invited to Max's birthday party! Is Max your friend in Ms. E's class? Luke: This answer is still no. We're not friends. Me: Oh. Why aren't you friends? Luke: Because we're not friends. (Answering "why" questions is one of his impairments) Me: Is it because Max is mean to you? Luke: No. Me: Is Max a good student? Does he get 3s and 4s or 1s and 2s? (Me trying to determine if there's a general behavior issue that's turning Luke off) Luke: He gets 4s like me. Me: Why aren't you friends with Max? Luke: Because...we're not friends. Because...he follows me and I told him "don't follow me!" Me: Does he follow you because he wants to be friends? Luke: He follows me. I don't like it. We're not friends. And then he ran off. That's about the maximum amount of conversation we typically get out of Luke. So I'm thinking given that Max is also in the special education program, he likely could also be on the spectrum and have difficulty interacting and making friends. If that's the case, I absolutely want to ensure that Luke goes to his party. I typically wouldn't force my kids to be around someone they don't like, but I also hate it when special needs kids try to throw parties and everyone ditches them. It's happened to a few of my friends' kids before and it's absolutely heartbreaking. I'm really torn on this one. I'm heavily leaning toward taking Luke to the party anyway. It's not until the middle of next month, so we have time to prime him or things might change naturally. I'm also tempted to email their gen ed and special ed teachers to see if they have any insight into Luke and Max's relationship. I'd hate to force Luke to go if there's always conflict between them. But if they get along decently well at school, then it's likely that Luke is just being a grumpy-ass this weekend, which has already been a thing this weekend actually. So maybe I'm making too much of all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 I think reaching out to the SpEd teacher to see if there is any conflict is a good idea. But I suspect your hunch is right that the kid is socially delayed and doesn't know how to engage or take hints, and may come off as a little overbearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbes Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Get this, last week we had a 5th grade opening and our counselor knew of a very low income family from her previous job who was a severe victim of bullying and our counselor encouraged the family to apply. The girls that were bullying also found out about the spot and all four families applied. It was insane to hear each families take on the events to make their daughter out to be the victim and get the open spot--fortunately our counselor knew the situation. This is why mean girls are, by far, my least favorite thing to deal with. It is the one behavior that is not only learned, but openly encouraged and supported by parents. I cringe every time I hear the phrase, "my daughter tells me everything" or "my daughter doesn't lie to me". Usually these moms (sorry--it is always moms) want be best friends with their daughters. It doesn't surprise me the parents of the girls bullying Q are volunteers. Usually (not always) PTO/ girl scouts/ whatever volunteers are the most toxic parents on campus and the smallest amount of power go to their heads. I once asked the PTO for $100 to buy a classroom set of basic calculators with big buttons for an 8th special ed life skills math class so they could take them on their field trips to the grocery store. It was a TWO hour debate and they eventually voted against it because they thought 8th grade students shouldn't need calculators. I once had to "fire" a PTO president because she was so toxic no one else would volunteer and she threatened to sue me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 We are all absolute shit liars in this family. I'm kind of thankful for that. Do my kids lie to me? Yes. Can I tell when they are? Usually. My concern is that I don't think these parents do know it when their kids do. But, as you said, there is absolutely a connection between Mean Girls and Mean Moms, I saw that firsthand this year with soccer. Last year the moms were admittedly pretty vapid but mostly harmless. We are generally pretty good about weeding out the Mean Moms as Girl Scout leaders. Out here, at least, I think that's because it's hard to find volunteers anyway, and also we try to keep our troops to one grade level so it's not like those moms can lord their "power" over the whole school. For me, I find I do have issues with parents (never the ones who actually volunteer) trying to control our troop because they want their daughter to get everything they want. However, I am also pretty stubborn so they eventually leave once they realize they can't push me around. I'm so glad we are down to 5 girls and they're all about the same level of weird, but also genuinely kind kids. I have generally found PTO/PTA to be the types of moms I can't stand, though. They are looking for control and power, and judge their self worth on their ability to create the perfect pinterest decorations for the various events and class parties. The anxiety starts Sunday afternoon now. She threw a fit about nothing to wear this morning, even with some of her favorites available. We had a training event with another club last night that was intended to be a confidence boost and just an opportunity to work on some more skills, and she beat herself up over every little mistake and I had to talk to her twice at water breaks to remind her it is training, not tryouts, and that they were all making mistakes or having some level of difficulty with the skills. But she had a meltdown 5 minutes before we even got out of the car. Friday she came home miserable saying she can't do anything right. She said the same thing last Friday. I need to get her out of there ASAP. And the private school we liked just let us know that they realized mid-year is NOT going to work because they have a big retreat next month that is not really optional and she is not signed up and has not been planning with her team. FML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Skywalker Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 I have a question for Ender or Spam or anyone else in education. Are 5th/6th graders really easily irritated? Is this a post-pandemic thing? I noticed that Q's classmates at this school are very easily irritated, but I'm not sure if its a hormonal thing or a cultural thing out here. But this came up because the principal finally got off her ass with some "interventions" to support Q and she mentioned that Q is actually very emotionally intelligent, much more so than her classmates. Q tells me her classmates get annoyed with the littlest shit, like her marker squeaks while drawing. I've occasionally noticed this at individual Girl Scout events, too, though. She will be doing something fidgety that I find super minor and someone will snap at her to stop. The parents don't tell their kids to chill. I don't ask her to stop, though, either. Partially because I want them to work out minor conflicts themselves, but also because I think we need a little more tolerance for things that are not really bothering any body. (I got pretty annoyed at my coworkers recently for getting mad at a guy at work who is pretty clearly neurodiverse for pacing at his desk. I told them I was pretty sure most of it was because they don't like him because he's kind of an entitled asshole. Which fine, dislike him for that but this guy probably needs a workplace accomodation.) The appeal was once again denied, with an offer to appeal to the school board. I'm not bothering, they will just continue to CYA and uphold the decision claiming that its not interfering with her education. I put in a request for a district variance to allow Q to attend the STEM program and called her teacher to let her know that she will be leaving because no one will take this seriously. I think that's what actually got the principal to get her butt in gear. However, Q is not sure she really wants to leave, but her reasons for wanting to stay have to do with the adults she likes, not her peers. I'm really struggling with whether I'm making the right decision here. The last day of the semester is tomorrow. We are only halfway through the year. Can she survive the rest of the year? We also figured out that she has been downplaying everything to the staff at school. She says she's fine, the girls are being nice (in class only) and then she starts breaking down at the end of the day because faking it is getting hard. Then she's miserable at home. I told her she needs to stop people pleasing and admit she's not doing well. Unfortunately, this has also been undermining any advocacy I've done and makes me look like a nutjob and I won't be taken seriously because now I'm the Mom Who Cried Wolf. She finally owned up today and the relief was palpable. She seemed less tense tonight. I still don't know what we are going to decide. I'm trying to give her choices, but I told her she needs to stick with whatever decision through the rest of the school year, I'm not going through this again in 3 weeks. I've pulled her from a lot of environments that seemed emotionally damaging. Honestly, moving her here is the only time it's not worked out for the better. We switched Girl Scout troops and found a much better one that we've been happy with for 6 years now. We moved to the private school and she thrived until a complete leadership change. We left her old soccer club because of an abusive coach, and they fired the coach last month. I know she can really thrive in supportive environments, and often I'm just the first to bail and others follow. About half of the families we knew well left the old private school at the end of the same school year. And they were kids who you wouldn't think were struggling and would probably do well in almost any environment. But their parents were also fed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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