Kid stuff

[Destiny Skywalker]

We got E's genetic testing results back and they were thankfully mostly benign. The one variant that did pop up is related to growth hormones. So I'm glad that there was nothing scarier than that. However, when I start googling that gene there are a few other things that might be explained as well. Apparently there's some things in there that can be associated with ADHD, clumsiness, and social issues (gee, you don't say). We are still on the waitlist for an autism evaluation. However, he got this variant from me. So this explains why I started off tall and ended up short, and why I'm significantly shorter than my biological parents. We've been talking to Q's pediatrician about how she seems to have fallen off the growth curve. So I have a feeling she has the variant too.

[Jacen123]

My son is seemingly getting his first molars in and it is making him so fussy during the day and causing him so many problems sleeping.  He had been sleeping so well before this and now I’m on hour three so far tonight with him sleeping in small doses before waking up in fits.  I barely even have a chance to use the restroom or het some water, much less sleep, in between his fits.

Ugh, I just hope he gets through this set of teeth quickly.

[Jacen123]

Apparently, it wasn’t teething, but a nasty virus that has gone through his daycare.  At least he is feeling better now and has been cleared to go back to daycare.

[RUAJedi2]

Glad he's feeling better. Having a sick little one is no bueno.

[Ms. Spam]

cleared to go back to daycare and get more sickness LOL 

RSV and a bunch of other yucky stuff has been making the rounds at my school and just when I think we get over the hump the winds of winter bring cedar pollen and now it's miserable allergy related stuff. 

[Destiny Skywalker]

I finally escalated to the deputy superintendent, who is responsible for Harassment, Intimidation and Bullying. The school counselor is ineffective and conflict avoidant. The principal did eventually step in and it helped for awhile, but now one of the little snots is back at it again. Our psychologist is disgsuted. I've requested a variance to E's school, they said they will take a look at it. We also toured a nearby private school that has multiple campuses, and has a much smaller campus locally. There were 30 6th graders (a few kids from church recognized her) and there's less than 10 teachers for all of middle school. Their very large campus does have a reputation for being a good school but also for being a little more conservative than I'd like. They were open to her joining at the semester break in mid-January. I'm going to see how the variance falls out, but Q has had a significant increase in anxiety that is starting to look more like depression. I've had to pick her up from school multiple times and there have been a lot of sick days that are really anxiety days. I mean, the school nurse is probably the most concerned for her. Her teacher is amazing but a lot of the comments happen at recess or lunch. Any time I have brought it to her attention, she has dealt with it immediately and effectively, but I was trying to not make her life harder because she has 30 other kids that she needs to deal with. The girls knock it off for a few weeks and then they start right up again. I'm done. Q is done. Even if I do get her to transfer to E's school this year, I'm pretty sure we will have to go back to private next year because the middle school is a nightmare and most of my friends have decided to homeschool their kids.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Rejected for the variance, twice. The special appeal board rejected in less than 3 hours, so you know they really agonized over that one. Filed a formal bullying complaint and 2 of the girls were dumb enough to harass Q about it, when she hadn't even been named as the victim. So that got added to the investigation.

And now E has the flu. 

[Destiny Skywalker]

Luna doing a concern for her smol hooman.

[Hobbes]

2 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said:

Rejected for the variance, twice. The special appeal board rejected in less than 3 hours, so you know they really agonized over that one. Filed a formal bullying complaint and 2 of the girls were dumb enough to harass Q about it, when she hadn't even been named as the victim. So that got added to the investigation.

And now E has the flu. 

I am pissed reading this. 

If I was the principal here, I would put in a no contact contract for the girls.  Basically if the girls approach Q, they receive a consequence.  If Q approaches them, she receives a consequence   At lunch and recess, this is to be reported immediately by any of the girls being approached and I would tell staff supervising to keep an eye on the situation--actually if anything goes to the deputy super I would have a teacher or admin watching.  As far as consequences, I believe in progressive discipline.  I would start with lunch detention and move to in school suspension and out of school suspension and, possibly even labeling this habitually disruptive.

My gut is telling me the school is trying the handle this through a restorative lens without a consequence in place, which rarely works in bullying because it actually gives bullies more power for a variety of reasons. 

To be clear, I think this policy is handed down from district and is not the principal's fault.  The reason I say this is the counselor is doing what she is coached to do at district trainings.  Those trainings likely end at the restorative process and do not include meaningful consequences. 

Does Q have an IEP or a 504?

[Tank]

I'm sorry you have to carry this, Nicole. I'm lucky enough to have only had to deal with bullying stuff a bit with Oliver. It was only really bad when he started middle school, and thankfully at the end of that year is when his mom moved to the burbs and he was able to switch schools.

Middle school kids are the worst. I sometimes grab lunch from a sandwich place or a grocery store in the same minimal near me, and it's right by a middle school. I avoid the place like the plague around 3 when school lets out because these kids are the worst. All the shops have to have to put somebody on their door to regulate the amount of kids coming in and out to only a few at a time otherwise they run wild. This is in a totally upscale neighborhood too, these are all rich kids. THE WORST.

 

[Destiny Skywalker]

5 hours ago, Tank said:

I'm sorry you have to carry this, Nicole. I'm lucky enough to have only had to deal with bullying stuff a bit with Oliver. It was only really bad when he started middle school, and thankfully at the end of that year is when his mom moved to the burbs and he was able to switch schools.

Middle school kids are the worst. I sometimes grab lunch from a sandwich place or a grocery store in the same minimal near me, and it's right by a middle school. I avoid the place like the plague around 3 when school lets out because these kids are the worst. All the shops have to have to put somebody on their door to regulate the amount of kids coming in and out to only a few at a time otherwise they run wild. This is in a totally upscale neighborhood too, these are all rich kids. THE WORST.

 

I'm a little disgusted with our new neighborhood. Q tells me the girls speak openly about being gold diggers and how they are going to marry for money, not love. They're 11 and 12, wtf. This is considered to be some of the nicest neighborhoods in the school district, but I would still call this neighborhood solidly middle class. But they seem to think they're rich, and I think that's the problem. I'm told our local middle school is very rough in the hallways, and the teachers don't do anything about it. The principal used to be the HS principal and then he badly bungled a sexual Harassment case and it made the local news where he made some really poorly chosen statements blaming the victim.

E has been to a bunch of different schools. Honestly, I think the best one was the Title I school where most kids were on free lunch. Although E is now at a "better" school for once. I will say that his classmates are very inclusive and offer to help him when he's having a hard time with something. It's a good environment, hence why I asked Q to be transferred there.

18 hours ago, Hobbes said:

I am pissed reading this. 

If I was the principal here, I would put in a no contact contract for the girls.  Basically if the girls approach Q, they receive a consequence.  If Q approaches them, she receives a consequence   At lunch and recess, this is to be reported immediately by any of the girls being approached and I would tell staff supervising to keep an eye on the situation--actually if anything goes to the deputy super I would have a teacher or admin watching.  As far as consequences, I believe in progressive discipline.  I would start with lunch detention and move to in school suspension and out of school suspension and, possibly even labeling this habitually disruptive.

My gut is telling me the school is trying the handle this through a restorative lens without a consequence in place, which rarely works in bullying because it actually gives bullies more power for a variety of reasons. 

To be clear, I think this policy is handed down from district and is not the principal's fault.  The reason I say this is the counselor is doing what she is coached to do at district trainings.  Those trainings likely end at the restorative process and do not include meaningful consequences. 

Does Q have an IEP or a 504?

Q does have a 504. Most of her accommodations are for anxiety. And part of the basis for the HIB report was that she was being discriminated against for her sensory differences.

I sent 3 pages of documentation from just this past school year alone. I didn't even include anything from last year, which is when this began, with 2 of the girls. I mean some of what I had to document was just ridiculous, their insults are just so terrible but they are clearly trying their hardest to be nasty. Like one of the girls called her a furry because she had a fox tail in her Roblox avatar or something. When Q asked her what she meant by that, she said it meant your dad went to store to get milk and never came back. It was really hard to keep a straight face when Q told me about it. But more damaging has been the insults about having acne and telling the class that she never showers.

Part of the problem is Q is just very friendly naturally and continues to talk to some of these girls because they're her classmates and she's just good-natured and friendly. My other issue is that 1 of the moms is a substitute teacher in the district, and all 3 moms are heavy volunteers at the school, and one of the girls has absolutely used her mom's volunteer status to isolate Q when they tried a "distance" method at lunch (basically even if Q sat down first, the girl would tell a volunteer that they weren't allowed to sit by each other and make Q move to the boys table). This is why I requested a variance. There's no way the Harassment is going to stop with their moms being in the positions they are in.

E had a pretty rough day yesterday, he couldn't even keep water down. He perked up a little bit today but then he's been napping for the past 4 hours. He doesn't even care that he's stuck in his room, he's so miserable.

[Odine]

Bullying sucks. Particularly since the only way to make it stop (with boys at least) is violence, and then that doesn't always work and sometimes can make things worse.

I got bullied in school a lot by this particular kid and it didn't stop till I snapped and punched him in the face a few times. I then ran away and cried cause I felt bad. But the bullying stopped. 

My wife was getting bullied when she was a kid too and asked her dad what to do. He was like, "ahh just punch him in the face and tell him where to go". So she did. Got in trouble with the school as did her dad but the bullying stopped.

But then a guy I know stood up for himself and bet up his bully, then the bully came back with a crew of friends and ganged up on him. But he went to a tough school. Middle class and posh kids are generally ******* though and violent reaction usually shocks them enough to stop. It's kids that get violence in their day to day that shrug that sort of thing off. 

This is terrible advice so ignore me. 

Unless you get Q into jiu-jitsu or judo. Then she could safely put someone in their place. More a preventative measure really. When my son turns 5 we are going to get him into jiu-jitsu. If for no other reason to help expend that kinetic boy energy that is constantly on the boil.

[Hobbes]

17 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said:

I'm a little disgusted with our new neighborhood. Q tells me the girls speak openly about being gold diggers and how they are going to marry for money, not love. They're 11 and 12, wtf. This is considered to be some of the nicest neighborhoods in the school district, but I would still call this neighborhood solidly middle class. But they seem to think they're rich, and I think that's the problem. I'm told our local middle school is very rough in the hallways, and the teachers don't do anything about it. The principal used to be the HS principal and then he badly bungled a sexual Harassment case and it made the local news where he made some really poorly chosen statements blaming the victim.

E has been to a bunch of different schools. Honestly, I think the best one was the Title I school where most kids were on free lunch. Although E is now at a "better" school for once. I will say that his classmates are very inclusive and offer to help him when he's having a hard time with something. It's a good environment, hence why I asked Q to be transferred there.

Q does have a 504. Most of her accommodations are for anxiety. And part of the basis for the HIB report was that she was being discriminated against for her sensory differences.

I sent 3 pages of documentation from just this past school year alone. I didn't even include anything from last year, which is when this began, with 2 of the girls. I mean some of what I had to document was just ridiculous, their insults are just so terrible but they are clearly trying their hardest to be nasty. Like one of the girls called her a furry because she had a fox tail in her Roblox avatar or something. When Q asked her what she meant by that, she said it meant your dad went to store to get milk and never came back. It was really hard to keep a straight face when Q told me about it. But more damaging has been the insults about having acne and telling the class that she never showers.

Part of the problem is Q is just very friendly naturally and continues to talk to some of these girls because they're her classmates and she's just good-natured and friendly. My other issue is that 1 of the moms is a substitute teacher in the district, and all 3 moms are heavy volunteers at the school, and one of the girls has absolutely used her mom's volunteer status to isolate Q when they tried a "distance" method at lunch (basically even if Q sat down first, the girl would tell a volunteer that they weren't allowed to sit by each other and make Q move to the boys table). This is why I requested a variance. There's no way the Harassment is going to stop with their moms being in the positions they are in.

E had a pretty rough day yesterday, he couldn't even keep water down. He perked up a little bit today but then he's been napping for the past 4 hours. He doesn't even care that he's stuck in his room, he's so miserable.

Why is Q being forced to move if she is the victim?  Why are volunteers doing lunch duty (I have never heard of this--volunteers should NOT be supervising students in this capacity)?   

What are the accommodations for the anxiety 504?  The reason I ask is that a 504 is a legal document that demonstrates the school is knowledgeable of her disability.  Bullying happens even with the best efforts, but by not addressing a known issue with a student with anxiety the school/district is liable.   I would 100% take this to the next board meeting. 

[Destiny Skywalker]

I think at first they just thought it was a normal conflict between a couple of girls. This literally started the second day of school and 2 of these girls were her friends last year. But this is why I've been documenting for 3 months, as well as attempting to ask the school to intervene in that time. Quite frankly, if someone get fired, I won't be sad. In my opinion, there are a lot of staff members culpable here.

@Odine, unfortunately I agree with you that usually retaliation is the only way to stop bullying. In the case of girls, you usually have to embarass them. However, if Q resorted to violence, I can tell you it wouldn't end well for her and the school district would come down on her pretty hard. If they actually find these girls guilty of bullying, they will be ineligible for a lot of things.

[Destiny Skywalker]

We've had a lot of anxiety the last few days, school started back today. The girls left her alone and I told her that she needs to start pretending they don't exist. No engaging with them, no being friendly, nothing. Today went OK but 2 of the girls did go to the principal's office at the end of the day (the other one left early). So tomorrow might be less pleasant. I don't like that they essentially had 2 weeks to prepare and potentially make up lies. I wish I had raised that point earlier. Hopefully the girls shot themselves in the foot by confronting her.

She says she doesn't want to do another mid-year switch. But I've also told her that I don't think she is going to do well at our local middle school. I am also concerned they are going to make HER move classrooms. She has a great teacher and if her teacher is out of the equation, there's honestly zero motivation to keep her there. I haven't brought this up to Q but if it happens that might change her mind about sticking out the year.

There is an amazing Catholic high school in our neighborhood, and while I'm not Catholic whatsoever, I hear nothing but good things from people, even gender binary/non-conforming kids. But that's 9th grade, we gotta survive the rest of 6th and then 2 more years of middle school.

We've toured one private K-8 school so far, as I mentioned. Its fairly conservative and Q had some issues with some language in the student agreement, but when we were there it felt like a good fit. The other concern was their hours conflict with Q's regular therapy appointments and they allow 15 absences a semester in a given class, Q would already be at 11, so there's almost no room for illness. We have a tour in 2 weeks at a K-8 Lutheran school (a little closer to our family's beliefs). They've already seen her 504 plan and said they only invite you to tour after you fill out an application, so apparently there was nothing too scary on there for them. It's not as convenient as the other school, but seems much less strict, and I could probably let her stay in after school care occasionally or make sure she's always signed up for an after school sport (hope you like basketball, kid).

The other sort of out there option is a neighboring school district has a co-op education/parent partnership/home school program that has a STEM program that I believe counts as full credit but its only 3 days a week (it also has a Language Arts component, so she would still be getting that, but probably not history which I'm admittedly not worried about). One of our friends is sending her 7th grader there instead of the local middle school. However, she's a SAHM and I work 40 hours a week. She said she'd just give Q a ride since she's headed there anyway. I HATE depending on other people like that, but she has been a supportive friend the last few years and is the one that told me about the school district program for E. I don't think an online homeschooling curriculum would work for Q (when I asked her, she said that would be too socially isolating for her), but this type of in person program might be a good fit.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Remember the bully soccer coach that drove Q off her long-time team? The club asked her to resign. Karma finally gets her.

[Destiny Skywalker]

Alright, I have a restorative justice question. One of the girls approached Q on Friday and said that she was sorry for how she had behaved and didn't realize how it was affecting Q. She said can we be friends again? Q was very uncomfortable and a classmate interrupted them with a joke so she didn't have to answer. I have a feeling they are going to find that the girls were indeed bullying, but they are going to have them do some sort of meeting where they apologize and hope everything goes back to sunshine and rainbows. However, Q's trust is completely broken. She isn't ready to be friends. I don't want her to be put into a situation where she has to listen to a bunch of potentially fake apologies and be forced to accept them. Because that puts the pressure on her to be the bigger person, when really all she wants is for the behavior to stop. We talked about forgiveness and how we don't have to grant it just because someone asks for it, and forgiveness is often not immediate and takes time and a history of changed behavior. I especially don't want her to be shamed for saying no I need time, because I think honesty is important and these girls should also learn that forgiveness is not automatic, nor should it be expected of the victim. (Bonus thought, because undiagnosed ADHD: I believe our culture expects and pushes for forgiveness because it allows people to not be accountable for our poor behavior. It's essentially a get out of jail free card that places more pressure on the victim than on the aggressor. And I do truly believe there are some offenses that cannot be forgiven: murder, rape, abuse, infidelity, etc. I think there's a difference between true forgiveness and letting go of your trauma so that it doesn't affect you as much. And that does not mean welcoming the person who wronged you into your life and acting like nothing happened.)

Should I reach out to the principal preemptively to tell them not to put her into a situation where there is pressure on her to forgive them? I think I would also like to ask the principal to warn us if there is going to be any sort of meeting so I can help Q prepare for it instead of being taken by surprise.

[Cerina]

Yes. Absolutely. 

If they want to apologize, Q can accept that apology. But forgiveness is internal and, honestly, for the victim. Forgiveness does great things to one's mental health - letting go of anger and resentment is healing. She doesn't have to forgive them, but she should for her own sake. What she absolutely should NOT be pressured into doing AT ALL is reconciling with them. She's allowed boundaries, and not being around those girls should be one of those boundaries. 

[Destiny Skywalker]

Well, it doesn't matter, because the principal called me to let me know they determined it was not bullying or Harassment. They said it did not meet the definition because Quinn did say it got better once adults intervened. No shit.

I'm done. She's definitely going back to private school.

[Jacen123]

Idiots.  I imagine this was also soon after they talked to the kids, too, right?  

[Destiny Skywalker]

I mean, yes, bullying usually gets better when adults intervene. But they have to intervene consistently. One of the girls finally got her feet held to the fire and so she knocked it off for awhile. But in the documentation it shows that administration intervenes, the girls stop for awhile, and then they start testing boundaries again.

I am pretty sure this has more to do with avoiding having a bullying report on their statistics than actually protecting her.

I have 5 days to appeal. You bet I will.

Also found out just now that the STEM program has an opening. So I need to scramble for that.

[Jacen123]

Yeah, that’s what I meant:  they should ask that question well after they intervened.

I hope that the STEM program works out!

[Destiny Skywalker]

It's going to have to work out. The school let us know "someone" has filed a report that Q made threats to harm them. I can't even. The retaliation has already started. I've already filled out withdrawal forms and am just waiting to send them.

[Cerina]

12 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said:

It's going to have to work out. The school let us know "someone" has filed a report that Q made threats to harm them. I can't even. The retaliation has already started. I've already filled out withdrawal forms and am just waiting to send them.

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[Destiny Skywalker]

It was the 2 girls who confronted her who made the report of a threat. Of course, it turns out they approached Q and another student and started telling them both that they need "mental help". Q still denies she made a threat. She knows better.

I can't even, guys. I think the principal is regretting letting those 2 off the hook. She said she is trying to think of a separation plan that can't be weaponized against Q like the previous one was. We will be escalating to the superintendent. I think it may be time to get lawyers involved.