Official Doctor Who New Series Discussion (spoilers)

[UK Legend Killa]

K-9 rocks!!

 

Affermative!

[Rogue 3]

Really enjoyed this weekends episode, "The girl in the fireplace". Fantastic writing, great acting, and top ending as well. Definitely my favourite so far.

 

Next saturday's episode: Rise of the Cybermen!!!!

[Bodanki]

Really enjoyed this weekends episode, "The girl in the fireplace". Fantastic writing, great acting, and top ending as well. Definitely my favourite so far.

 

Next saturday's episode: Rise of the Cybermen!!!!

 

LOL Isnt Trigger playing the Cyberman creator??

 

Wonder if he'll keep calling the Doctor, Dave!

[UK Legend Killa]

Yeah! That'll be great.

[Rogue 3]

Not giving much away here (as it's been shown in the tralier for the next epsiode), but it's set in a parallel universe plus there is the return of a character seen in 1 episode last year. He is older than we last saw him though...

[UK Legend Killa]

Return of a character??

[Tank]

Not to be an ass-- but why Do British Sci fi production values always look so crappy? is it a money thing? Is it PAL? I just don't get it.

[Transducer X]

Not to be an ass-- but why Do British Sci fi production values always look so crappy? is it a money thing? Is it PAL? I just don't get it.

 

I love Who, but I'm almost to the point where I think the UK is SO unimpressed w/ what seemless effects bring to the story that they just don't really bother that much with it.

[Rogue 3]

Return of a character??

 

Yep - it's been mentioned is some of the publicity for this new series, so you might have heard it already. I can let you know if you want...

[UK Legend Killa]

I hardly watch TV anymore, and only see the trailers.

 

Tank, what is it specifically that you're on about?

 

Some of the virtual CG effects in these new series are brilliant. Especially the werewolf transformation in the current series. Amazing.

[Rogue 3]

Agree with UK there. I think last year and this year have had good effects. Just enjoy it Tank!!!

[Tank]

Oh I totally enjoy it-- I just keep reading how people talk about how the fx work is amazing... and it isn't! Keep in mind I have only seen half of Eccelson's run thus far, but the CG is bad, the monsters are usually hokey rubber suits, and the general quality of the image is very low-quality video looking.

 

Granted, some of these things might be asthetic to connect it to vinatge WHO, but compared to shows like BSG, Firefly or Trek it just looks really low budget. I love ths hw don't get me wrong, but it's visuals-- everything from fx to lighting and cinematography just looks lame.

 

Is it cause the BBC really has limited budgets? After 50 years of television can't the UK come up with a better way to run things?

 

Is it cause there aren't any good FX houses or film crews in the UK? Is there American superiority with this? I'd hope not...

 

Or is it just cause transferring PAL things to NTSC is mucking it up and heightening the flaws?

[UK Legend Killa]

As you're only halfway through the Ecclestons run, you won't have had chance to see the full scale of what they do yet.

 

I assume you have seen the Slitheen? Giant rubber suits yes, but also well worked. When you reach the laster episodes, especially the last two, and even some of The Empty Child/Doctor Dances, then things begin to pick up. The first few episodes were all about re-introducing Doctor WHo, not making anything too flashy, but familiarising people with him once more. And it worked.

 

I suppose tt all depends on what Sci-Fi you were brought up on too. Over here its not really about the effects, its about the...errr...Doctor Who-ness of it! Whereas I look at programs such as BSG, which are amazing, especially in the space fight scenes. I haven't seen Fiefly/Serenity yet, so I can't comment on that.

 

But it does seem that American people, and companies, put much more emphasis on the effects that we do.

[LadyGuinevere]

I have been loving the recent series, though I missed half of Ecclestone's run... I was catching up on it before BBC3 conked out on us (useless Freeview - only works now because I discovered we have two arials!).

 

Personally, I PREFER the production values to be crappy. Honest to goodness. I would take story and character over flashy graphics anytime. Just look at Red Dwarf - the rubbish special effects were part of the charm. Dr. Who is the same.

 

With Firefly/Serenity, I felt it was more towards the British style of things in that sense (with a few exceptions). It felt.... dirtier

[tripsbacks]

Tank, I think it just looks crappy on Sci-Fi. I download the new series from someone who gets it off the BBC and it is much clearer than what's on Sci-Fi. It could have something to do with PAL to NTSC.

[Rogue 3]

What's this? No posting for over a week??

 

The last 2 episodes were numbers 5 & 6 from series 2. This was the Cyberman double parter. Enjoyed these episodes. It has the Doctor, Rose & Mickey transported to a parallel universe arriving in present day London - although there are plenty of differences!

 

John Lumic (Trigger from Only Fools & Horses), is badly ill and has spent his life trying to find a way to cheat death. Can you see where the Cybermen come into it yet???

 

Plenty of good twists - really like the writing on these 2 series so far.

[UK Legend Killa]

I liked the final 'falling' sho inot the fire. Very well done.

 

The effects really do show up well.

 

Another Torchwood reference too.

[Durty D]

I just saw the first part of the Cybus story - Really liked the parallel world and the fact that even Mickey/Ricky knew what a parallel world was like because he'd seen them on TV.

 

Interesting that they are rebooting the Cyberman story - worked quite well and the costumes were well designed.

[Rogue 3]

Agreed - I liked the new cyberman outfits, and Mickey/Ricky was a nice addition. Was surprised how the second part ended with regards to them, but nice move anyway!!

 

Missed the Torchwood reference in part 2 - I think there were at least 2 references in part 1 - Pete starts talking to someone after chatting to Rose and mentions it, and it was on Rose's mobile when she gets the download.

 

Not sure about the next episode - the trailer looked a little funny with the whole TV thing!

[the trumpet player 2]

Oh I totally enjoy it-- I just keep reading how people talk about how the fx work is amazing... and it isn't! Keep in mind I have only seen half of Eccelson's run thus far, but the CG is bad, the monsters are usually hokey rubber suits, and the general quality of the image is very low-quality video looking.

 

Granted, some of these things might be asthetic to connect it to vinatge WHO, but compared to shows like BSG, Firefly or Trek it just looks really low budget. I love ths hw don't get me wrong, but it's visuals-- everything from fx to lighting and cinematography just looks lame.

 

Is it cause the BBC really has limited budgets? After 50 years of television can't the UK come up with a better way to run things?

 

Is it cause there aren't any good FX houses or film crews in the UK? Is there American superiority with this? I'd hope not...

 

Or is it just cause transferring PAL things to NTSC is mucking it up and heightening the flaws?

 

The people who talk about the FX work in Doctor Who, saying that it is amazing, are people who know nothing about visual FX and CGI. The FX work in Doctor Who is awfull.

 

I don't know if they want to keep it looking low budget purposely, as a nod to the old shows. If this is the case then those incharge should be fired. Doctor Who is a decent concept, but in my opinion it has always been poorly executed. Maybe this is because they have to keep it nice for kids.

 

Doctor who is a massive media hype. The BBC has put so much money into it that it has to win awards, such as it did recently at the BAFTA's for best drama....HA!

 

Billy Piper is always praised for her excellent acting skills, which in my opinion, any soap actor from East Enders could pull off. I read an article just the other day comparing her acting abilities with Starbuck in the new Galactica, saying Piper is far better, and does not have to resort to getting her kit off. What the **** are these people smoking ?

 

The low quality has nothing to do with PAL - NTSC conversion Tank, it's that bad over here. The BBC apparantley has little money to spend on FX, there are companies over here that could do a far better job.

 

Regardless of budget, they should be able to make this look a lot better. It does not cost money to learn how to compose your shots better etc... They always show making of Dr Who episodes on TV over here, and in one episode a crew member compares their set to a Ridley Scott set.

 

As usual in this industry, it is no talent that gets the jobs. Their art director looks like some pretentious shaved headed lesbian Fine Art graduate, and their producer some big four eyed geeky nerd, neither of who have a clue about Sci Fi.

 

Each episode is typical TV drama formula, I have yet to see anything original or interesting come from this new show.

[Durty D]

^Were you turned down for a job with them or something?

 

I agree that Piper is nothing but a new found soap star -but that totally fits with the show.

 

Doctor Who has always been sci-fi for the whole family. I don't think that they need to blow the budget on the effects - it's more about the adventure.

 

Doctor Who offers us those adventures that only Star Trek TOS could offer us. Each week the viewer finds themselves in a new exciting locale with a different bunch of people.

 

I bet the budget for Doctor Who is a lot less per episode than Firefly/BSG/Stargate.

 

No-one complained about the shoddy effects on Red Dwarf - i think people need to get over it.

[the trumpet player 2]

^Were you turned down for a job with them or something?

 

I agree that Piper is nothing but a new found soap star -but that totally fits with the show.

 

Doctor Who has always been sci-fi for the whole family. I don't think that they need to blow the budget on the effects - it's more about the adventure.

 

Doctor Who offers us those adventures that only Star Trek TOS could offer us. Each week the viewer finds themselves in a new exciting locale with a different bunch of people.

 

I bet the budget for Doctor Who is a lot less per episode than Firefly/BSG/Stargate.

 

No-one complained about the shoddy effects on Red Dwarf - i think people need to get over it.

 

No I wasn't turned down for a job with them or something.

 

Piper being nothing more than a soap star standard actress only fits the show because the standard of production is about the same.

 

I don't think they need to blow the budget on effects either, they just need better FX artists working on their show, because beleive me, there are plenty of unemployed CGI artists out there who can do the job 10xbetter. CGI in video games look better.

 

DR Who was written for children, not the family. I can't imagine a family sitting around and wacthing something like this.

 

The reason no one complained about the shoddy effects on Red Dwarf was because that was integral to the comedy element. Wakey Wakey

 

They should make Dr Who more serious to get something better from it. First the BBC should just leave it alone, because the only decent television they can make is comedy and documentaries. They should make it darker and more intellectual. The stories should be more like Back to the Future, with the changing of the timeline element incorporated. It's not really Sci Fi, it's just drama with a few Sci Fi elements in there we have all seen before.

 

They should have an older and better actor like Tom Baker or Peter Cushing. They should get rid of the Tardis looking like a police box, they don't use police boxes anymore, one of those things appearing somewhere would certainly attract attention. They still have the same stupid gadgets that look like they have been bought from Forbiden Planet (a comic book and nerdy collectors items shop).

 

As far as exciting and interesting new locations.... thats a matter of opinion. I've seen a few episodes that showed potential, but again the quality of the script, the acting and overall production value from the BBC is what ruins this.

 

Almost everything made by the BBC looks like it's been filmed on a studoi set, because thats their crappy style and they won't change.

 

Remember Dr Who was axed many years ago becuase of the very same reasons as mentioned above. All this Dr Who hype is manufactured by the BBC itslef. It's only a matter of time before people realise they are watching the exact same crap as they where 20 years ago only with CGI.

 

They should give Dr Who to the Americans. Even their worst stuff is better than our best stuff (in terms of production value). Let's face it, when it comes to serious drama, sci fi and film in general, we brits are a ******* joke to them.

[LadyGuinevere]

So basically..... they should change every single thing about it?

 

I'm loving the new series. I didn't watch the first half of Ecclestone's series for a variety of reasons, but caught an episode mid-way through and got hooked. Yeah, production is sometimes shoddy, and I am hardly a fan of Billie Piper, but I enjoy it. Not because of the hype, but because it's fun. It's one of the best things I've seen on the BBC in a long time (and their comedy has been going down-hill for a long time).

 

And as it happens, my family used to sit around watching things like this in the 80s and 90s, and when we're all actually at home, we still do.

 

Also, I disagree that the lack of special effects were integral to Red Dwarf's humour. It did help with the setting and general feel of the show, but the comedy itself tended to come more often from the characters and the situations (at least in the good episodes). The fact that it became unfunny when production values went up was down to poor writing and the loss of one of the writing team, not because they were suddenly spending money.

[Rogue 3]

They should give Dr Who to the Americans. Even their worst stuff is better than our best stuff (in terms of production value). Let's face it, when it comes to serious drama, sci fi and film in general, we brits are a ******* joke to them.

 

 

Tried that once before - the Paul McGann movie in the 90's. Very poor film.

 

Anyway, let's not turn it into a whole UK v USA thing. The BBC does not have the kind of budget that the American production companies have, that is why they have to cut corners - last year's episode Boom Town being an example where the budget had pretty much gone, so the episode (which turned out to be a very good character piece) is just set in Cardiff and the Tardis - very cheap, but good all the same.

 

I think this series and last year's were of a very high quality. FX wise, they've been pretty good - the rubber suited Slitheen's last year is the only one that springs to mind as being very poor, but the Dalek and Cyberman episodes have been very good.

[the trumpet player 2]

So basically..... they should change every single thing about it?

 

I'm loving the new series. I didn't watch the first half of Ecclestone's series for a variety of reasons, but caught an episode mid-way through and got hooked. Yeah, production is sometimes shoddy, and I am hardly a fan of Billie Piper, but I enjoy it. Not because of the hype, but because it's fun. It's one of the best things I've seen on the BBC in a long time (and their comedy has been going down-hill for a long time).

 

And as it happens, my family used to sit around watching things like this in the 80s and 90s, and when we're all actually at home, we still do.

 

Also, I disagree that the lack of special effects were integral to Red Dwarf's humour. It did help with the setting and general feel of the show, but the comedy itself tended to come more often from the characters and the situations (at least in the good episodes). The fact that it became unfunny when production values went up was down to poor writing and the loss of one of the writing team, not because they were suddenly spending money.

 

1. No, just the things I said.

 

2. Thats OK if you enjoy it. I just see potential for something far better. But be aware, these type of shows are created to appeal towards the lowest common denominator, no offense, it's just a fact.

 

3. Does your family conists of spotty teenagers who can't get girlfriends ? I know of no families who would sit round and watch this.

 

4. Totally wrong about the FX of Red Dwarf. Ofcourse the comedy came from the characters, as does all comedy. The crappy FX where made crap on purpose to add to the humour. If you don't beleive me go out and buy a behind the scenes video or something.

 

5. By the time Red Dwarf came to an end, they may have had better FX or bigger budgets, but the reason it got worse was because the writers where running out of ideas, and they got rid of one funny character (the actor got his own sitcom) and replaced him with a woman who just wasn't funny or well written.