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What Episode IX needs to do to save the ST


254 replies to this topic

#1
RamonAtila

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Pretty straightforward, for all you TLJ haters out there.

I have a couple things to start:

-Make Kylo Ren menacing again. I want the Kylo from TFA back
-take us back to a Galaxy far far away. TFA had Space Pirates, Starkiller base. TLJ had fantastical elements, but it felt like Legend of Zelda at it's best.
-make our characters grow goddamnit. I'm just gonna leave that vague
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#2
captainbleh

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Recast Leia


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#3
Iceheart

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Narrow the scope, and reunite all the main characters. My main complaints about TLJ basically boils down to it being three different movies with three full casts of characters all in one. It was just too much going on, I had a hard time remembering who was doing what and how it fit into the bigger picture.

 

Can we see a competent man, please? I get that SW is a bildungsroman and the whole point of those is that everyone grows up during the course of the story, but holy hell. Finn is the only man in the story who has a true excuse for being painfully naive, and he does seem to be making some slow strides forward. But Poe went from being the epitome of cool in TFA to being whiny, immature, and slightly misogynist? I spent the whole movie wanting to punch him in the face. And Emo Kylo Ren is just a running joke. I've already wasted a lot of time and words on how I actually appreciate TLJ Luke, but estranged husband Han and crazy hermit Luke doesn't help this.  Meanwhile, Rey is preternaturally gifted and doesn't really screw up in ways that ultimately *matter,* Leia and Holdo are these serene badass warrior oracles, and Rose is pretty one-dimensional because her character didn't have any room to breathe let alone grow in TLJ, but that one dimension is "plucky."  Screw "Strong female characters" who never screw up and male characters who do nothing but, I just want to see characters. Boys need good men to emulate, girls need to see that failure leads to growth, and I need some intellectual stimulation with my entertainment.


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#4
Robin

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I dunno. Im an idiot. Maybe.

Leia dead in the opening scroll.

Poe is leading the Rebels. Finn tracks Stuttering Guy down, Poe advises not to kill him. Finn does so anyway, because justice. Poe is dismayed.

Kylo wont stop talking to Rey through the Force. Kylo is interrupted during the Force Phone Call by a minion of Hux and so he kills him... not gently like a Vader choke... with his unchecked ferocity.

Kylo ceases to care about creating a First Order rule and all its meaningless concerns and needs, he realizes he has no aims to fix the galaxy, that was Vaders weakness, so he sets off only after Rey. Hux leads the First Order.

Meanwhile, Rey is thankful for the interruption, whatever caused it, and she talks to air. I thought you said this place was so full of life, the Force, that itd help me block him out. She says. We then see that we are on Dagobah. Ghost Luke appears, and apologizes, he was wrong again, he had hoped it could block Kylo.

Heroes like Finn continue down the path of absoluteness, Hux institutes more radical methods in the name of order and safety, eventually they say the same lines.

During this Rey lets Kylo track her to a barren world, her intention isnt to kill him, but to trap them both. No matter how long it takes, or whether she will reach Kylo, they are going to die on that planet.

Resistances within resistances, Poe and First Order group reach a cease fire. Finn and Hux destroy each other.

#5
The Choc

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Without getting specific: I think it should deal with the Resistance unable to find allies because the Galaxy thinks this is a loss cost. Movie ends with a symbolic Resistance victory that shows the Galaxy they can win and gets them allies. Setting up a real, large scale war.  Rey ends up leaving this new, stronger Resistance to seek out people throughout the Galaxy who are strong with the Force in hopes of helping and guiding them. 

 

Take a few years off, maybe 5 or so in real time, 10 in story time to come back for the real, large scale war between the 2 sides. 



#6
The Choc

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ALthough I do like the idea of a radicalized Finn and that could easily fit into what Im saying anyway. 



#7
Odine

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At this point I have no idea what should be done. 

 

I do think Kylo should be menacing though. He's about as scary as my cat. And he gets as much done. [as my cat]  Make him a villain for Dog's sake. 

 

I'd say Rey needs a failure to level up from... but this is the third in the trilogy so its meant to be when she is l33t. She should've already failed plenty by now.... so **** knows. Maybe she can go dark-side. That'd make me happy just because it'd make so many unhappy. Pretty sure Choc would shed a tear if that happened.

 

I dunno...I'd like it to have some continuity and tie some things together. Give us the formation of the Knights of Ren or something.... just ANYTHING so this trilogy didn't feel made up on the fly by multiple different individuals. 


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#8
Odine

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ALthough I do like the idea of a radicalized Finn and that could easily fit into what Im saying anyway. 

Finn already was radicalized.  He was a stormtrooper. Going full circle the other direction doesn't say much about his strength of character. Prone to indoctrination much? 



#9
The Choc

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Why do you think I'd cry if Rey turned to the dark side? I'd have no issue with it, depending on how it is executed. 



#10
Odine

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I was just taking the mick dude



#11
Robin

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My intention to radicalize Finn is, I think, a continuation of his characters arc as present in TFA and TLJ. He is a man that quests to do the right thing, as he sees it, regardless of what his present authority says. In TFA its the Order, in TLJ its the resistance, in the next its Poe.

My intention to balance Poe is likewise, I think, a continuation of his arc in the last two films. He and Finn are the same person who has learned different things at a key moment and as such diverged.

My intention to split Kylo from the Order and keep Rey isolated is also, I believe, a continuation of their arcs.

My intention to have resistances within resistances, I think, builds on and finishes the constant questioning from Imperial/First Order officers to their leaders and likewise within our heroes to their leaders in both the past and present. The suggestion throughout all eight films that while the stars will constantly face wars, we could find a measure of peace and maybe it will be only for a for moment... but it will be peace... if only people on both sides refuse to shoot the person in front of them. This also reinforces the underlying message in TLJ that you dont need to be a magical, legendary Luke Skywalker (or a Rey) to end a war.

In addition, I think, the resistances within resistances aspect mirrors the splintering and radicalization of irl politics, which furthers the ties to the OT and blends with what we have seen so far. Pulling it all together in a package that seems if not intentional from the start then at least flowing naturally as it progressed.

#12
The Choc

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I like the idea of him becoming radicalized but for a slightly different reason. He left the First Order basically caused they asked him to murder innocent prisoners. Would be interesting to see him do the same thing as a Resistance leader. Basically become the very thing he refused to be in the First Order. Almost like someone falling to the darkside but nothing to do with The Force. 

 

Put the idea out there that evil isnt just some concept of the Force called the darkside but it exists in all of us, even those who start with the best of intentions. 

 

I don't think they will do this, I kinda think they will go with him leading some kind of storm trooper uprising within The First Order which gives the Resistance an army. This has been speculated about by others but I like the idea.

 

The two ideas though could both happen and in fact could work together well. Finn is captured by First Order, some of his former trooper buddies rescue him, saying that there are alot of troopers who love what Finn has done but are too scared to do it themselves. Finn rallies them together and they revolt. Finn then as leader of this band of rebellious troopers orders some kind of massacre of First Order prisoners. 



#13
Tank

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Finn has been a fleeing flee-er who stands up to fight twice now. Granted in TLJ he was trying to be loyal to Rey, but this is what they shouldn't do more of.

Poe obviously needs to become a charasmatic leader struggling with responsibility and not just wanting to be a man of action. This would make sense.

Rey should seem supremely confident and in control of her raw power, but in the first act needs to screw up big and doubt herself, so she can come back stromg at the end. Her beimg bold and having it backfire, and seeing her make a mistake is what we nees to see in a big way.

Kylo just needs to go full on Vader, but never look back. He's already been what I wanted Anakin to be, so now let him mature and find the cold control Vader had. We've already seen him be willing to cut out Han, Luke, and Leia, as well as seen his compassion for Rey be rebuked. I think finding an emotional corner for him will be the hardest. I thinkmthe Knights of Ren should reassemble after the death of Snoke and be readymto clean house. If he has any doubts they should come in the form of Luke haunting him. I don't want him to turn in the end, I feel like they've shown us he won't-- but I am also pretty sure they will.
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#14
El Chalupacabra

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I honestly don't think Episode 9 CAN fix or undo what TLJ did, IMHO.  Kind of hard since TLJ was the second of the 3 movies.  Would be much easier to fix if TLJ was the first movie of the trilogy.  I think after Episode 9 is finished, Disney LFL shouldn't make any more Episodes.  I am okay with doing more one-offs similar to Rogue One, maybe even a trilogy, just don't connect them to the episodes or the Skywalkers.  

 

However, here is what I would like to see.

 

1.  Don't Eff up Lando.  Don't wussify him.  Don't just give him a glorified cameo only to kill him off. 

 

2.  Luke:  definitely bring him back as a ghost.  Have him advise Rey, have him haunt Kylo much like Merlin did with Morgana Le Fay in the film Excalibur.  

 

3.  Kylo:  He needs to be more Vader than Vader.  Kylo needs to be basically what Vader-Anakin would have been had he not been defeated and maimed by Obi Wan.  All powerful dictator much like the Emperor, and more brutal, but at the same time, the general public thinks he is a benevolent dictator and man of the people.  I would like to see him order the First Order to commit attrocities so heinous that some in the First Order are shocked and appalled and some even defect or turn against Kylo.  I'd also like to see Kylo "realize" that Vader was weak for turning back to the light in the end and he should no longer idolize him. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should Kylo be redeemed.  Depict the First Order as having completely won and what's left of the Rebels are being hunted down by the First Order, and the Rebellion as a movement, really is about die. 

 

4.  Rey:  Ughh not sure what can be done with her.  2 movies in, and she defeated Kylo physically once, essentially saved his ass in TLJ, and the record is basically Rey=2, Kylo=0.  Not sure it would even make sense to see Kylo defeat her at this point.  What I DON'T want to see is Reylo.  I suppose the logical thing would be to depict her as having mastered her abilities, but then starting to come to the conclusion that maybe SHE needs to walk away from it all, much like Luke did.  Maybe she leads a failed mission that gets people killed.  Maybe she just looks at the Resistance/Rebellion as too few in number and it cannot make a difference. I don't know. But whatever the cause of crisis,  Luke's ghost then advises her not to walk away, and tells her about broom boy and others like him, giving Rey new-found hope that maybe she CAN help topple the First Order by training more jedi. 

 

5.  Hux:  I'd like to see him start out as a reluctant Kylo supporter, but end up as a leader of a faction of the First Order that allies itself with the Rebels (sort of like Damar in Deep Space 9).  

 

6.  Finn:  Finn should go full on rebel war hero and leader, and be a source of inspiration to First Order defectors, and ultimately be instrumental in recruiting/persuading said defectors to take up arms against Kylo.   He needs to stop being a Rey fanboy. 

 

7.  Poe:  For me, he's always been just there.  Not very interesting to me.  Probably just have him become a better leader, maybe supreme commander of the Rebels, who is not as impulsive, without destroying his character.  

 

8.  Maz:  tell us that effing story for another time!

 

9.  Kill Leia off in the opening crawl.   Allow characters to reference her death in dialogue but sparingly and reveal that Kylo is the one who killed her. 

 

10.  Absolutely NO DJ!

 

11.  Rose:  eh, I thought she was OK and I don't get why she is hated.  But not sure what can be done with her.  Maybe have her and Finn hook up.

 

12. Time Jump!  maybe somewhere between 7 to 10 years.


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#15
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I hope old Lando is still droidsexual.
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#16
Odine

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I want a Cantina scene in which Lando has to get up on stage and fill in for one of the alien musicians. He puts on some star shaped ocular enhancers (space shades) and lays down a sick Parliament-esque bassline. Cause Lando shreds the space-bass. Band has never heard anything like it and so thoroughly inspired they all smash out a number so funky the first order give up.

Edited by Odine, 27 July 2018 - 01:14 AM.

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#17
Poe Dameron

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Fire JJ Abrams.


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#18
Iceheart

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I do think Kylo should be menacing though. He's about as scary as my cat. And he gets as much done. [as my cat]  Make him a villain for Dog's sake. 

 

I LOLed hard at this line, and then I remembered this

 

160121224634-kylo-ren-cat-adam-driver-ex

 

And I LOLed even harder.

 

I honestly don't think Episode 9 CAN fix or undo what TLJ did, IMHO.  Kind of hard since TLJ was the second of the 3 movies.  Would be much easier to fix if TLJ was the first movie of the trilogy.  I think after Episode 9 is finished, Disney LFL shouldn't make any more Episodes.  I am okay with doing more one-offs similar to Rogue One, maybe even a trilogy, just don't connect them to the episodes or the Skywalkers.  

 

Cosigned.

 

I want a Cantina scene in which Lando has to get up on stage and fill in for one of the alien musicians. He puts on some star shaped ocular enhancers (space shades) and lays down a sick Parliament-esque bassline. Cause Lando shreds the space-bass. Band has never heard anything like it and so thoroughly inspired they all smash out a number so funky the first order give up.

 

If this is the entire plot of IX, I will throw the contents of my bank account and 401K at it.


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#19
Ryn

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#20
Odine

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Wow

#21
Fozzie

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Thank you. I have no clue how I missed that before.

1) Let the tech be mythical. I know the Falcon was in constant need of repair, but it still seemed way beyond Earth. The fuel thing really pulled me out of TLJ.

2) Do something interesting with Finn. I don't hold it too much against him that TLJ was a continuation of his TFA desire to escape, because it was like a week at most from the beginning of TFA to the end of TLJ.

3) Time lapse. I don't want the entire trilogy to be completed within a month. Give characters time to grow and change. This was JJ's fault for ending TFA in a way that almost required TLJ to start immediately. But still, give the characters time to change.

4) Lando back to his old ways, but coming back to join the fight again. Han back to his old life rubbed me wrong, even if it made sense. Lando back to his old life makes sense - he was in it to make up for his actions and to get revenge. He managed both.

5) Everyone has said it, but a menacing Kylo. Hux who isn't one of the Three Stooges.

6) This is the most controversial - don't undo everything that TLJ did. Rey should be a nobody, etc. Don't waste time going over things like the lightsaber, but release the book that tells the story ASAP.

#22
Iceheart

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I'm honestly not sure why they spent all that money on Solo when this already existed.


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#23
El Chalupacabra

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4) Lando back to his old ways, but coming back to join the fight again. Han back to his old life rubbed me wrong, even if it made sense. Lando back to his old life makes sense - he was in it to make up for his actions and to get revenge. He managed both.

 Old ways as in 20-something smuggler Lando from Solo,  or TESB cloud city CEO Lando?  

 

I hope it is the latter.  Personally, I think it would be a cool tip of the cap to EU to have Lando in charge of some mining operation like he was in the Thrawn trilogy. I think that befits Lando...lost Cloud City, but he was at a stage in his life where he does the adult thing and rebuilds a business.  I am sure a grateful New Republic would have helped Lando pay to get his business going again.  He did blow a Death Star up for them, not to mention he sacrificed Bespin to help Luke and Leia escape, and helped rescue Han from Jabba, who was no friend to the Rebels.

 

....side note.  Which is one of the problems I had with Han Solo in TFA.  Han was a general in ROTJ who helped take down the Endor shield so Lando could blow up the Death Star.  I get Han went on his walkabout after Kylo turned evil, but why didn't anyone in the New Republic at least help him find the Millennium Falcon?



#24
RamonAtila

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I don't want IX to undo anything TLJ did but I do wanna see Snokes story continue. I hate ST flashbacks and find them so un-star wars-like but since the cats outta the bag use flashbacks to flesh out more of a back story for Snoke. Then how cool would that be where Snoke has this huge relevant story (maybe he's Darth plagueis) but his story was told in tarantino-like nonlinear fashion. That would be the coolest.

I wanna see HC back as Anakins ghost. Basically anything you see on Mike Zeroh is what I envision.

#25
Poe Dameron

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1) Let the tech be mythical. I know the Falcon was in constant need of repair, but it still seemed way beyond Earth. The fuel thing really pulled me out of TLJ.

 

The X-Wings are clearly seen receiving fuel before the attack on the first Death Star in A New Hope, Obi-Wan requests fuel from his hosts on Utapau in Revenge of the Sith, Qui-Gon says they'll need to refuel because the hyperdrive is leaking in The Phantom Menace, and Anakin tells clone troopers to aim above the fuel cells in Attack of the Clones.  You add in Lando's Tibanna gas prospecting on Bespin and that's fuel being mentioned in 6 of the 9 previous Star Wars films in one way or another.

 

It's always been there, just not a major component.  It makes sense considering that Lucas is a born car and racing enthusiast.

 

I also don't think it really needs to be mythical.  Needing to burn something to produce energy seems completely in line with the whole "live-in universe" feel Star Wars is famous for.





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