Driver Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh settle down! It's just funny that gender disproportion isn't an issue to you compared to some certain minor details that drive you batty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen123 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm just glad Seth inadvertantly has a Star Wars-related username again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Good point!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Diversification, equality, representation is important to me, I thought I stressed that repeatedly. How that can doubted, I am not certain. I do babble horribly though. I just don't like the checklist of chains. I don't think that because there are two females we aren't allowed to kill one. I don't like the "Gotta keep the quota" mindset. I don't understand why anyone can look at it that way instead of what works for these characters? Which isn't to say a death must be the thing. But what if it was?! Can't do it, quota! That's what is said. Can't do a romance! Two accomplished, strong equals of heroes can't be attracted to one another. Can't do it. Cliche! Can't have a story where a leader of the rebellion becomes the most pivotal and beloved figure for a new government, strong, intelligent, proud, a leader striving for peace and prosperity. Can't write a story for that leader where their tiresome and noble efforts have made them the target of a villain. Can't do it, because the leader has a vagina. Who's being ridiculous now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hollywood. That's who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I totally also would have accepted me being the answer, in Jeopardy question/answer form however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Can't have a story where a leader of the rebellion becomes the most pivotal and beloved figure for a new government, strong, intelligent, proud, a leader striving for peace and prosperity. Can't write a story for that leader where their tiresome and noble efforts have made them the target of a villain. Can't do it, because the leader has a vagina. Who's being ridiculous now?Is Mon Mothma the remaining female lead to be cast? I heard a rumor that Dame Judi Dench was being considered. Why Caroline Blakiston couldn't reprise her own role is unclear. Of course a story can be written where the leader has a vagina. It just doesn't follow that she'd have anything to do, action-wise. Unless watching Mon Mothma sit in protective custody for 2 hours would be your idea of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Skyfall was applauded, it was like printing it's own money, held on high and it did just that and funnily enough with Judi Dench. Not saying I want to see Star Wars: Skywalkerfall. BTW: Only really so active tonight because bored. My wife is reading. Yes. Gawd. Always reading. Words and stuff. Women and their books. I'm thinking of singing the theme to Reading Rainbow while naked holding a book like a fig leaf to get her attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well, Dench's M was hardly the Prime Minister. It was not completely implausible for her to go into the field, especially since she was the bait. It would be highly implausible for Mon Mothma to start carrying a blaster and aiding in her own defense. Besides, is that character even expected to be in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 For the record I totally grasp what Torchie is saying. I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doze Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Cool Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I totally get and agree with Torch. While I have no problem seeing a movie with characters that are ethnically diverse or are female, I do have a problem with demands that a certain number of characters be this color, or from this continent or have these private parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Jade Skywalker Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'd really like NOT to complain. But I'd also REALLY like for there to be two main women in a Star Wars cast. Rebels is giving that to me with Hera and Sabine (who were announced after the bad guy, the droid, and the men, but I digress). I mean, you ask for more than one token female in a sci-fi movie and it's like you're asking for Star Wars to be turned into The Bachelor. It's not that hard. ShadowDog has said before that the reason so many people love Mara Jade is because we finally got another female character, and to a point, it's true. (It helped that she was awesome.) There was a great post in Club Jade last night about how women in fandom are sick of being told "be patient". There might be another female role to be cast. There might be a ton of secondary female characters. Daisy Ridley might be the star. Yes, all of those things are true. However, I can't be optimistic when it comes to Star Wars and female characters, nor can I be optimistic when it comes to JJ Abrams. Not after Into Darkness. Not after Padme losing the will to live. The Expanded Universe has done much better when it comes to female characters, and now that's all being wiped out. So yeah, I'm never going to be optimistic in this matter, nor should I have to be. It would be nice if I pick up a science fiction book and there are an equal number of male and female characters. Or, you know, just any book. Or TV show, or movie. But it seems to be very dispropotionate when it comes to science fiction and fantasy, which is crazy, because you can create these worlds to be anything you want. I write sci-fi and I make the majority of my characters biracial or multiracial, because I think that makes sense for stories set in the future, not because I'm trying to send a message. I'm currently writing a book in which the three POV characters are all women, and one of my fears is that people are going to say it's too female-centric. Even though I've read TONS of books in which all the major characters are male or there's only one female character. I'm really hoping someone throws that at me so I can point out that, actually, the male characters outnumber the females. I'm ranting, time to end this post. OMG I'm going to get to buy a Jedi Master Luke Skywalker action figure! What if he flies an X-Wing?? What if he has a lightsaber duel??? What if Gleeson is playing his son and all my hopes and dreams come true? Eeeeeeee! (See, it's possible to be both excited and disappointed at the same time!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerimar Nyliram Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Maybe he already died of an STD by this point? [edit] Damn, that's some hardcore ninja posting! This was in response to Doze regarding Lando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Jade Skywalker Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 eg. I mentioned Leia dying. Immediately it was shot down because it would be one less vagina. There was no consideration for whether it could be a great story for Leia. Again not a front to Mara, I feel like I know her, feel like I know what she is saying. If Mara read a story where Leia dying was awesome I feel like she wouldn't just rally the brigades because one less lady is in Star Wars. I know Mara can look at a story and see it's merits.If Leia was part of a diverse cast that included an equal number of men and women, then no, I wouldn't be angry. However, if she was one of the only characters, then yeah, I would rally the brigades even if it was done well. That's one of the reasons that killing Mara made me so angry. Not only was it horribly written and out of character, but they were killing the most popular female EU character (possibly THE most possible EU character, period), to further the growth of a male antagonist who they were just going to kill later on. And it's not like there were many female characters there to take her place. It's the classic example of being stuffed in the fridge (or carbonite, as one so eloquently put it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerimar Nyliram Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Didn't Traviss's killing of Mara violate a rule they laid down between the authors at Lucas Books around the time the New Jedi Order and Clone Wars media campaigns were launched? I remember one of the rules was that authors could only kill off characters that they themselves had created, and if they wanted to kill off a character they did not create, they needed permission from the author who created said character. Traviss did not have permission, and Zahn was not pleased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doze Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I haven't read even one back cover of EU since Chewie died, so I "feel your anger" ... about Mara, Mara. It does relate, I'm a really hairy male. ;-) But seriously, I get your POV and also seriously F them for killing Chewie. But seriously especially so about poorly written things on top of the already lopsided treatment or out right disregard to women. And I agree it is sad that the genre continually defers to gender as if women don't have money. You'd be mad at me though if I had wishes, because I sold myself on the idea while postulating last night. :-( Sorry. Pssst: However I wouldn't have killed Mara and she would be in this film played by Julianne Moore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerina Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 What if Black Widow's and Hawkeye's relationship was written well? But I'm sorry I guess shouldn't open my mouth because I'm white and a man. I'll literally get back in my kitchen, being a Mr. Mom that is my place. I forgot myself. Forgive me. ;-)Their relationship is written really well as is! I get what you're saying though. I feel the difference is when being a love interest is the entire point of a female character or being the damsel in distress is. To me, it's not necessarily how many women are in a movie or even what they do most of the time, it's when the only female is put there purely as a plot device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Jade Skywalker Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Didn't Traviss's killing of Mara violate a rule they laid down between the authors at Lucas Books around the time the New Jedi Order and Clone Wars media campaigns were launched? I remember one of the rules was that authors could only kill off characters that they themselves had created, and if they wanted to kill off a character they did not create, they needed permission from the author who created said character. Traviss did not have permission, and Zahn was not pleased.I've never heard anything like that and that would be silly, not to mention impossible, to do. Lucasfilm owns those characters and can do whatever they want with them. Every author knows this, especially Zahn. (Read his Facebook post about the EU announcement last week. He's quite cool with it). He was pissed mainly because the idea of killing Mara was stupid, and also because Del Rey didn't do him the courtesy of letting him know it was going to happen and only told the truth when he asked one of the editors point blank. (Note: they didn't HAVE to tell him anything, but it would have been a polite thing to do, especially since he was still writing Star Wars books.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Cool Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Originally Vented By MJS: Not only was it horribly written and out of character, but they were killing the most popular female EU character (possibly THE most possible EU character, period), to further the growth of a male antagonist who they were just going to kill later on. And it's not like there were many female characters there to take her place. It's the classic example of being stuffed in the fridge (or carbonite, as one so eloquently put it). I agree. That was lame. The fact that they had to write Mara so hopelessly oblivious for that storyline made it a character assassination. But it echoes what they tend to do with strong female characters in the SW universe: as soon as they marry or reproduce, they lose their good sense. Etain Tur-Mukan ("Republic Commando" series) and Padme are just two other examples. I probably wouldn't include Leia in that as she seemed to retain some independent thought...maybe because everybody else raised her kids for her?...but she still made some dunderheaded moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara Jade Skywalker Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh man. I really hope they're doing a "The Beginning" style documentary for this, because I would LOVE to hear Carrie Fisher's comments on Leia's contributions to the plot. "Are you serious, JJ? She would NEVER do that. Change this." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerimar Nyliram Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I've never heard anything like that and that would be silly, not to mention impossible, to do. Lucasfilm owns those characters and can do whatever they want with them. Every author knows this, especially Zahn. I know Lucas Film can do whatever they want with them, but I recall reading about this pact the authors made directly from one of the authors' blogs (I believe it was Karen Traviss, in fact, but don't quote me on that). It was binding only between the authors as good faith when orders to the contrary were not coming down from the top. Also, I was never butt hurt over Chewie's death. Yeah, the death itself wasn't great, but the characters' reactions to it afterward brought some much-needed emotion to the franchise. This was especially true of Han's immediate reaction in the Chewbacca graphic novel, where he bemoans the fact that he loved Chewie but never knew quite how to make it known to him. Chewie's death was a good one, I think. Mara's, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doze Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Cool Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Also, I was never butt hurt over Chewie's death. Yeah, the death itself wasn't great, but the characters' reactions to it afterward brought some much-needed emotion to the franchise. This was especially true of Han's immediate reaction in the Chewbacca graphic novel, where he bemoans the fact that he loved Chewie but never knew quite how to make it known to him. Chewie's death was a good one, I think. Mara's, not so much. I was actually much more moved by Leia's admission of how much she resented Chewbacca for taking Han away from her on random trips, etc. The death of Chewie was bad, but it definitely caused some character development. As well as some random bits of amusement, like when Jacen and Anakin were talking about how their father was too busy inspecting cantinas, knowing that it was much more likely he was inspecting the bottom of bottles in the cantinas. So, yes, deaths can be done well. Deaths for the sake of deaths, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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