Superman: Man of Steel

[Justus]

**** a reboot. That's Hollywood's solution to everything in this ADD microwave world. They think we're all morons who can't follow a franchise for longer than three movies without rebooting it. Or they just want to **** over the fans for the hell of it (BSG). Whatever the reasons, reboots are necessary in some cases like Batman and James Bond but they shouldn't be the first and only card Hollywood plays. Singer did something special and rare in that he actually took the hard path and tried to match what had come before and he's gotten nothing but hammered for it. "How dare you work your ass off to respect what came before?!? You should have just lazily rebooted and made us sit through ANOTHER origin story!"

 

If you count cartoon series and movies, Superman has been told in various ways a dozen ****ing times now since the 50s. Enough already! How about ****ing sticking with something for once? If they reboot to yet ANOTHER new story of Superman I'm out. Enough is enough.

 

AMEN!!!

 

Singer's film not only served as the bookend to the Donner films, but set a course for new adventures. I hope this reboot / "darker" idea falls apart as fast as the Justice League movie ideas, but if not, I think i'm done with Superman on the big screen. Nothing is a bigger turn off than changing what works in favor of a gimmick that is designed for a certain character...and he's not Superman.

[Jason Solo]

Having said that, though, I'm just not sure that there's really all that much interest in Superman. I'm confident that a reboot will produce a better film, but I think the casual fan is just tired of the character (I know I am).

Definitely something to think about. I'd be disappointed if this were the case being a big Superman fan myself, but it'd be delusional if I didn't see that other superheroes have pulled the rug under Superman's feet for quite sometime now and taken his spot.

 

And again, the problem with Singer's route is that the original movies were simply too old to base off of anymore. You respect the mythos sure but at the same time you want to grab the imaginations, interest, and entertain the young people of today, the core target audience of superheroes in the first place. Singer didn't take that into consideration when making Superman Returns and was instead focused on his own boyhood love of the original films. That's not to say having such a respect for the original films is a bad thing. But it becomes a hindrance rather than an asset when instead of just looking to previous works and drawing small inspirations and influences from it, you basically copy it. "Respecting" the original Superman films has become a vastly overrated concept, in the sense that many see them as untouchable. I love the first two movies too, but they're not without their flaws and just because I loved them but that doesn't mean a new generation should be cheated out of getting a brand new vision for their own and only get movies they can barely relate to because its a sequel to a movie that was made before their parents were even born.

 

Beyond the obvious fact that making any film is a difficult process, I just don't see what was so difficult and challenging about Singer's mindset behind making this movie. It wasn't new, it wasn't innovative, and frankly wasn't all that creative.

[Tank]

Ledgers death helped-- but at its core TDK was simply just a better movie than Returns. It can't be attributed to one simple aspect or formula, which is something execs never seem to get. It's like Star Trek-- it set a benchmark that they foolishly tried to emulate to try and cash in and it never worked.

 

As for a news Sues direction-- I'd love to see All Star Superman adapted, or maybe the pitch Millar has been pushing i in.

 

I'd disagree on the Star Trek point. That franchise reached its peak at the end if the TNG era. And it certainly worked from a cash flow perspective.

 

As for my suggestion for a Superman reboot...I'd play with the style and give it a feel from the 50s (actors and dialogue included). Get some giant monsters or robots in the first act. Lois in distress from an over-the-top villain (Ultra-Humanite in his ape version) perhaps in the climax.

 

Sure it'd suck. But in an awesome way.

 

I left out the important words "Wrath Of Khan." I meant that when we got to the next gen cast films, the pre-press always seemed to say "it's like Khan in the way that..." until we got Nemesis which was not only the worst of their films, but the most obvious rip-off of Khan. While that was the fan fav, the biggest box office lure was Voyage home, which begets more than one time travel story until they came way over played. Exec think seems to be if something works one, let's do it again!

 

As for supes, I certainly don't hope they do an origin tale. It' not needed. EVERYONE knows the Superman origin. Why bother. Personally, I'd love to see Luthor as a villain again, bot as Luther should be, with Bizarro at the end of his chain to do the muscle. Grant Morrison said something that totally made the Superman/Luthor relationship make sense to me. He saif that Superman is a God, that thinks he's a man, while Luthor is a man who thinks he's a god.

[Jason Solo]

Personally I'd like to see Luthor portrayed at first as someone the general public at large still sees as a good guy. We know he's slime, but Metropolis still sees him as the face of the city and its greatest benefactor. He becomes pissed that someone, an alien no less, has been taking his spotlight. The role would be smaller compared to other films but would consist of him outwardly helping with the threat but secretly aiding it and wanting Superman gone, all the while Superman and Lois and Perry (being great reporters) being the only ones who really don't buy into what Lex is selling.

[The Human Torch]

The success of TDK and what we have with Superman Returns (and now how the suits seem to be feeling about it) is why I have suggested that the next Superman movie actually needs to be a Superman/Batman film. Batman still gets his own sequel, but the next Superman movie is no longer a solo Superman sequel.

 

Some points that can be made into this S/B film:

 

Superman goes to Gotham to bring Batman to justice. Minor scuffles between them, including bagging a minor Bat villain or something, the "fight" between Supes and Bats is a draw. Batman reveals he too knows Superman's weakness (Kryptonite of course). In 1up-manship Superman uses his X-Ray vision to see who Batman is and then seeing who he is Supes realizes that maybe all the stories about the Batman aren't totally based in truth. Lois knows Clark's secret, did in Returns, it's why she treated him badly... she's broken it off with White Jr and asking Clark to help their son because something is wrong with him (again based on things in the first Superman Returns film). Clark calls Bruce and wonders if Wayne Industries can help. Brainiac arrives, crash landing and partly damaged due to the crash. Brainiac finds and teams with Lex Luthor (who at the end of Returns is stranded). Brainiac teams with Luthor because of Luthor's intimate knowledge of the Fortress and Kryptonian technology, he finds him because of that too.

 

Superboy's DNA is stolen from Wayne Industries + eventually Superboy dies partly due to complications with his own physiology and partly due to the villains missing with him. A clone is created by the Brainiac/Lex teamup in an attempt for a new physical body for Brainiac. The clone is flawed and rapidly ages into a "bizarro". Bizzaro wrecks havoc a couple times throughout the late second and third acts, basically let loose now by Brainiac/Lex in an attempt to keep Superman off of their tail (powerhouse vs powerhouse semi-finale battle). Batman does his science/detective thing and traces the theft of dna/info and pegs what is now a murder of Superboy (due to tampering to gain more viable dna or whatever from him) on Brainiac/Lex. Batman figures out Brainiac's/Lex's whereabouts (with henchman ass whoopings along the way). Bizarro "dies" at the hands of Superman, literally, crumbling to dust due to his still unstable matrix.

 

Superman and Batman end up facing off against a merged Brainiac/Lex construct (a last ditch and forced upon Lex emergency compromise by Brainiac to maintain his fading intellgence due to his damage). The heroes win of course... but with Batman calling Superman back from the brink of killing the villains. By the end of the film Lex is seemingly comatose, Brainiac gone and the status quo is reset for Superman (ie no son). The story is "darker" but it isn't a "dark Superman" tale. Superman is Superman. We just witness a journey through stages of grief with a man who has the ability to destroy a mountain.

[Wally Q]

Speaking for myself (of course), I'm really not interested in a blending Nolan's Batman with any of the other DC characters on film. I just don't see them working tonally and I think it would just a cheap ploy to jolt some life back into Superman by including the superior franchise into the stale mold.

[NumberSix]

Nothing wrong with Luthor. They need to commit to the darkly charismatic billionaire version though and drop the Hackman camp.

 

I'd settle for the glib yet dangerous Clancy Brown version from the animated Justice League.

 

I'm not much interested in seeing DC's current grim-'n'-gritty fixation that's pervading all their comics go 'n' contaminate all their films, too. I thought Superman Returns was lacking, but I don't think The Dark Kal-El is the answer.

[Tank]

Speaking for myself (of course), I'm really not interested in a blending Nolan's Batman with any of the other DC characters on film. I just don't see them working tonally and I think it would just a cheap ploy to jolt some life back into Superman by including the superior franchise into the stale mold.

 

I agree. I know they want to work toward a Justice League film, but I just never like Batman mixing with other superheroes. I didn't like the JL cartoon anywhere near as much as I did the Batman animated series. I'm not a fan of DC superheroes in general, with the exception of Batman, and for me he works best in Gotham, in the shadows as a crime fighting vigilante. I like my Batman lurking in the shadows. He loses moxie when I see him standing on deck of a brightly lit spacestation, or flying a jet next to Superman. It's just.. meh.

 

I totally can't see flying, laser vision or superstrength type stuff in the Nolanverse.

[The Human Torch]

It's Batman. Batman exists in the same universe as Superman. WTF?! lol I guys a lot, but when I see that stuff I can't help but scoff like the comic book guy. I just can't see Amish societies existing in our world, don't believe it, just doesn't fit with the urbanized western culture that is dominating the planet.

[Epimetheus00]

Superman Returns 2: Clark retells Lois who he is, Lois says duh I had your kid why'd you think I treated you as Clark so ****ty in the previous film?!! Jimmy laughs. Villain comes in and punches Superboy through a wall, he dies. Superman gets mad and fights. Superman wins. Then end.

 

Yes Superboy needs to die or captured by the Legion and taken never to be seen again into the Future where he becomes their Superboy. Anything the kid really ruined Superman Returns. Hey if they can kill Jim Kirks son in Star Trek III they can kill or lose Supermans kid. Kirk=Superman!

[Thomas Alan]

Batman may be a poor fit for the JLA, but I think his relationship with Superman is the most interesting of any team-up in all of comics. It's always been one of Batman's great defining characteristics that he's a mortal who stands on totally equal footing with Superman.

 

I would love to see that relationship done right on the big screen. I want to see it more than any other comic book adaptation.

[Tank]

I could get behind that. If it were done really well, and was just the two of them, I could see it going somewhere. Thinking back to the Timmverse "World's Finest" it wasn't that bad.

 

So long as it was a good story that played up their contrasting methodology, and not just a match-up to fight threat-x (lke a JLA movie would be) I'd have some hope.

[Thomas Alan]

World's Finest had my biggest geek moment from all the Timmverse when Superman tries to step in and take control of the situation with an assumption of authority and Batman calmly tosses him across the room during their first meeting.

 

Perfect.

[Darth_Malfoy]

This movie needs someone to match Superman. In a deleted scene from 'Returns' the new plannet the Luthor created obits just past Mars. I was thinking they could do something with Bizzaro. Of course this will be without the Lana afair from Smallville.

[Ryn]

Nothing wrong with Luthor. They need to commit to the darkly charismatic billionaire version though and drop the Hackman camp.

 

I'd settle for the glib yet dangerous Clancy Brown version from the animated Justice League.

Played by... Clancy Brown.

[Jason Solo]

That would be really interesting. Clancy Brown is an awesome villain. I also always liked the idea of Ed Harris in the role.

[Wally Q]

Call me crazy but ever since Titanic, I always liked the idea of Billy Zane as Luthor. But Michael Rosenbaum will always be my favorite Lex.

 

Anyhow!

 

If they were smart and ever did “World’s Finest” (which I’m not interested in the slightest), they’d use it as a stepping stone for their Justice League franchise.

[Tex]

Open question to all Superman fans: How would you reboot the franchise? I only ask because I'm rather cynical when it comes to this particular super hero. Even as a kid I hated his films, except for II (and that was only because of Terrence Stamp).

 

I've read that Luthor has evolved in the comics as a politician, which I'm assuming puts Superman in a Batman-like antihero light, but I don't see exactly how that would work. I still see Superman as a guy who can easily win his battles, thus making him somewhat of a bore. I'd love it if someone could convince me otherwise.

[Thomas Alan]

Lex hasn't been president for some time. And no, Superman didn't play the anti-hero to any great degree in those years.

 

I'll repost my idea for a reboot since you asked.

 

Ledgers death helped-- but at its core TDK was simply just a better movie than Returns. It can't be attributed to one simple aspect or formula, which is something execs never seem to get. It's like Star Trek-- it set a benchmark that they foolishly tried to emulate to try and cash in and it never worked.

 

As for a news Sues direction-- I'd love to see All Star Superman adapted, or maybe the pitch Millar has been pushing i in.

 

I'd disagree on the Star Trek point. That franchise reached its peak at the end if the TNG era. And it certainly worked from a cash flow perspective.

 

As for my suggestion for a Superman reboot...I'd play with the style and give it a feel from the 50s (actors and dialogue included). Get some giant monsters or robots in the first act. Lois in distress from an over-the-top villain (Ultra-Humanite in his ape version) perhaps in the climax.

 

Sure it'd suck. But in an awesome way.

[Guest]

My reboot would be fairly simple. Don't tell the origin, have him already famous and loved, and have Luthor be the billionaire businessman who hates him and is trying to get rid of him behind the scenes.

 

I think a great way to connect the two series would be a business deal between LuthorCorp and Wayne Enterprises. Nothing major, just a little easter egg or maybe a quick Bale cameo. Enough to connect the two without going all Justice League.

[Jason Solo]

Actually one of the biggest reasons I'm not down for a Superman/Batman teamup, besides my lack of confidence in anyone being able to juggle the two together in one film (my same misgiving about JLA/Avengers, basically any film with a group who by design haven't always functioned as a group, like the X-Men) is that they always tend to try and dumb down Superman or make him look like a big prick just to make Batman look good. I love the team-up because they're polar opposites in most every way yet respect each other and play to their strengths, but you always get writers who just want to establish that Batman's "cooler" than Superman, and its just lame and forced. Batman's cool in his own right, you don't need to establish him being badass by using gimmickry to try and make him Superman's physical equal, for example. I'm sorry but Batman, a human, taking down Superman with physical strength in any capacity is just retarded.

 

But anyway my basic idea would be to also pretty much forgo the origin, with the exception of maybe something during the opening credits like showing Daily Planet pages covering his arrival or something, and jump right into his presence being already established. Not for a really long time, but at least a year. Luthor's still a big man on campus, but has obviously slid in popularity due to Superman's presence (again Luthor's dark side is still hidden from the public, most everyone adores him and his contributions that has made Metropolis such a premiere city). The main villain, in my head Brainiac, is like the version currently being established and close to the Timmverse version, a guy basically intent on the collection of the universe's knowledge. He takes a piece of a planet's knowledge, then destroys it so he's the last remaining keeper of that knowledge. He targets Earth next, and Superman's goal from there is to protect his adopted planet of a similar fate. Along the way he also learns Krypton's destruction was due to this being, and as such Superman is also fighting on behalf of his birth planet. Anyone currently reading Action Comics will know I'm lifting a lot of stuff straight out of the current storyline, but its because I think it'd work on film.

 

From there if they wanted to go "as dark as they can allow" which hopefully someone will step up and say with Superman himself its absolutely minimal; make him struggle with thoughts of vengeance for the fate of his homeworld. Those kinds of thoughts are not beyond him, you just can't make him dreary. And hell there's no bounds as to how they could portray Brainiac. Dude's been changed up so many times in the comics they have a wealth of inspirations to go with. Make him as dark as you want.

[Darth Dude]

Whats the point of rebooting if you're not going to tell the origin story? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

If you don't want to sit through Supes origin again and just want to watch him fight Braniac, wouldn't it be better to continue with Singers series?

 

Anyway, my idea is for a "standard trilogy"

 

Film one with Lex and the origin.

Film two with Braniac and Bizarro/and/or Super Robots.

Film three with Doomsday and Death of Superman

[Jason Solo]

The '89 Batman didn't have an origin story and it worked just fine without it. It filled in pieces of info along the way without actually dedicating massive screentime to it. That's all I'm suggesting. Explain the finer details of the new continuity but without dedicating nearly an hour of screen time to it is all.

 

Not to bag on the ideas of others, as my ideas are no better than anyone else's, but if I had my way I wouldn't go near the Death storyline with a 10 foot pole. That's one of the things that kept the project in development hell in the late 90's, after all, they were insisting on using the financial success of that storyline into a film, and it wouldn't have worked anyway even if they could get a green light. The bottom line with The Death of Superman is this; it was a gimmick storyline. Doomsday is one of the most one-dimensional villains out there, and is only rated as high as he is because of he killed Superman temporarily. And the story was pretty cliche. And that's coming from someone who the story actually served as getting me into the comics in the first place, so I have a soft spot for it. But I think it'd be really lazy to go there, and don't even see the point now. Back then, like I said they wanted to capitialize on what at the time was a big, fairly recent success. The idea's 15+ year's old now...the novelty has long since worn off.

 

Speaking of that, the story was only as popular as it was because the mass media was incredibly naive and took it for face value that Superman was dying for good. It was really dumb luck that the idea took off like it did...it really never was meant to. Hell, it was a backup plan from the get-go in fact. The only reason the idea came about was because the staff was scrambling for ideas because at the last minute an editorial mandate dictated they weren't allowed to marry Lois and Clark yet, which was exactly what the immediate plan had been for some time (It was because of the new Lois and Clark tv show, they wanted to hold off the marraige in the comics, in the event the series was a success, they could marry the two in both mediums at that same time, which eventually did indeed happen), leaving them with months of no story to tell and little time to come up with something.

 

Finally, what really worked about the story in my mind and, looking back, made it less cliche and gimmicky was the months after his death in which there was the Funeral For A Friend storyline which dealt with Superman being gone and how his supporting cast dealt with it. They spent quite a bit of time on that before beginning the story of his return. Without all that, the whole event would have been so much less. I imagine trying to cram stuff like that into a movie and my head just hurts. All the good stuff that came out of the storyline would be lost, only the gimmick would remain. Further, the media might have been insanely gullible back in 1991, but there's no way they'd be that gullible again to hype up the film. So I don't see an advantage to looking there for inspiration at all.

 

But hey, I'm a huge Superman geek anyway, as seen by my sad, long posts. I'll probably be a critic of whatever they do. I don't mean any disrespect though, I can't help coming off like a geek but I don't want to seem like a jerk!

[Ender]

I just wish Supes would take on someone besides Lex Luthor.

 

Every Superman since Superman II=poop.

[Darth Dude]

You're probably right about Doomsdays lameness. I just like the idea of a superhero dying at the end of his film series and the world coming to terms with what they took for granted and now what they've lost. It's never been seen before and could be the thing that raises the "superbar", like Dark Knight. Or something.

 

I dunno, but Superman is the only character this could work for. Obviously Batman and Spider-Man could never die. Admittedly, I've never actually read the comic, but Doomsdays story couldn't be worse than the way Singer completely blew the death gimmick in Returns.

 

Plus it's a cool fight.