The Choc Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I don't think so. I actually think it would have been kinda amazing and poignant if Wyllis had "come back" at the very end. Like while he is holding the door he starts saying to Meera in a normal voice "run". I also think this explains why the Walkers have not been attacking yet. The Wall was made partly with magic from the Children, not that the Children may be extinct that magic may be gone. The Walkers couldn't attack the wall until they accomplished what they did last night. In related news all of the major characters who had been at the Wall left it during last nights episode. So the Walkers could attack it, destroy it and kill everyone guarding it without us losing any important characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Also, did Bran cause alot of these problems? The Mad King heard voices that drove him mad. Could that have been Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Or if Hodor repeated "Hold the door" properly as they were breaking through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Also, did Bran cause alot of these problems? The Mad King heard voices that drove him mad. Could that have been Bran?Was just discussing this, actually -- ya know, if Bran had just listened to mom and not gone climbing, Game of Thrones would look a lot more like The Tudors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevil Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I think that was Wylis at the end. The expression on his face made me feel like it was him. I wanted him to talk but in a way it would have spoiled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANA-kin Skywalker Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Also, did Bran cause alot of these problems? The Mad King heard voices that drove him mad. Could that have been Bran?I've considered this myself. Quite possibly true. Bran has caused a lot of people to die (or worse) this episode. I fricking hate this kid. However, his storyline is very interesting right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I wouldn't hate him, he is just in over his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Damn this blew up in the last several hours! I'm going to potentially triple post since these are mostly independent-ish thoughts... Also, did Bran cause alot of these problems? The Mad King heard voices that drove him mad. Could that have been Bran?Was just discussing this, actually -- ya know, if Bran had just listened to mom and not gone climbing, Game of Thrones would look a lot more like The Tudors... If we go this route (and I don't think it will), I think it would make more sense for it to have been Bloodraven, since he is a Targaryen and would have a somewhat vested interest in trying to let Aerys know about Tywin's machinations, Rhaegar potentially calling a Great Council at Harrenhal, or Southron Ambitions. That being said, I think we're at about even money on getting a Jaime-stabbing-Aerys flashback soon, given this shot from the trailer: http://i.imgur.com/ohD9DSH.gifv I didn't think so at all at first (thought it was Robert Strong stabbing someone), but I've been convinced by the masses. Slowed down, it certainly looks like the crown is falling off as he's stabbed. He also has Aerys' crazy flowing robes. And it's "very clearly" the Iron Throne's shadow in the right of the shot. I also think this explains why the Walkers have not been attacking yet. The Wall was made partly with magic from the Children, not that the Children may be extinct that magic may be gone. The Walkers couldn't attack the wall until they accomplished what they did last night. In related news all of the major characters who had been at the Wall left it during last nights episode. So the Walkers could attack it, destroy it and kill everyone guarding it without us losing any important characters.I'm not sure the Children are extinct (could be!), but I think the potentially bigger question is that if Bran goes south of The Wall, can the Others follow due to his mark, the same way they could now enter the cave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 New thought: Last night's episode was directed by Jack Bender - who directed The Constant in LOST (and many others). This is great! I should have known we were in for an emotional treat. Alright, now I'm going to start a re-watch for my other thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Littlefinger still drove most of the plot. Even if Bran hadn't been climbing most of this would have played out in a similar way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Anyone bothered that Game of Thrones just introduced time travel and a predestination paradox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 In the show where the ultimate battle will probably end up involving dragons and ice zombies? Not particularly. (Actually, kind of, but I'll choose to explain it away because it was a perfect storm of circumstances. Bran had warged Hodor before. He was in close proximity with present Hodor. He was in close proximity with past Hodor. It was an exceedingly rare confluence of events). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 What I meant was that Bran wouldn't have had a Hodor to Hodor him around to where he was if he hadn't affected the past to create Hodor in the first place. Obviously, they're setting things up so that it's all a fixed timeline. The Three-Eyed Raven explicitly said so a couple episodes back. Anything Bran does in the past will only create the future that they're now living in. So Bran was predestined to do this, even though Bran wouldn't have had the means to do it (and quite possibly would never have been born) if the changes didn't already happen. Basically, like most time travel, it's simply a huge plot hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 The ink is dry. Whatever happened, happened. Time is a flat circle. So on and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Yeah, I really could care less. I'm just shocked it was Poe who had an issue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Dameron Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Time travel overuse and paradoxes have long been a pet peeve of mine. Didn't expect Game of Thrones to be a trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axis Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Anyone bothered that Game of Thrones just introduced time travel and a predestination paradox?....a little bit....yeah. I'm really hoping that this is either FAR more skillfully handled or totally absent in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Anyone bothered that Game of Thrones just introduced time travel and a predestination paradox?....a little bit....yeah. I'm really hoping that this is either FAR more skillfully handled or totally absent in the books. "Hold the door" came from GRRM according to D&D. So we'll be getting some version of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Plus the fact that he's been setting this up for several books with the Greenseers and all that. I'd have been shocked if there wasn't some of this in this story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 - Sansa gets a letter from Littlefinger requesting to meet.... at Moles Town. Sansa does 'pwn' him with at least one line. "Did you know about Ramsay? If you didn't know you're an idiot. If you did know then you're my enemy." Slay, honey, slay. This season is one big apology from D&D for ****ing Sansa up so bad last season. Petyr offers her the Knights of The Vale to help her retake The North. She refuses, for some narrative reason to be determined later. 10 bucks says the show up to turn the tide in the Bastard Bowl later this season. - Anyway, Petyr tells Sansa that Brynden Tully has retaken Riverrun with an army he found out of thin air. Sansa sends Brienne to drum up support. - Listen, I know the timeline is sketchy and all that, but Littlefinger was in The Vale like 45 seconds ago and now he's almost to The Wall?! This kind of thing irritates me way more than potential time traveling paradoxes, but whatever. - More Arya stick training. It's a good thing Arya built up an infinite amount of good will during Season's 3 and 4 (and because of how generally awesome Maise Williams is) because Arya's storyline is ddrrragggggginggggggg. The Waif is still convinced she's Arya Stark and not No One. Okay. We get it. Let's move on. - Arya gets a Faceless Men history lesson (which I thought we had in the show already, but maybe not). She gets her assignment which is to kill an actress called Lady Crane, a member of a traveling theatre troop. Jaqen tells her this is her last chance. - We see a meta-moment with the play showing Robert's death and subsequent events. If nothing else it shows that the victors write the history books (Ned Stark portrayed as a bumbling fool, Tyrion paying Ilyn Payne to kill Ned when Joffrey wanted to spare him). This gets under Arya's skin, further proving that she is still Arya and not quite No One. Arya was very affected by seeing "her father" killed (again) and seeing Sansa mistreated, something she didn't have first hand knowledge of. This scene went on too long. Maise did great and didn't say a word though. Arya decides she's going to poison Lady Crane's rum. Arya asks who wants Lady Crane dead, Jaqen says it doesn't matter. Also tells her to stop asking questions. We've now been with Arya for like 10 full minutes and I'm kind of tired of it. - THE BIGGEST REVEAL IN THE SERIES SO FAR: Bran sees the creation of the first White Walker. They were created as a WMD to fight against the First Men for the Children. Also of note, the guy sacrificed is also the actor for the Night King. Could mean it's the same guy and they are ageless, or it could mean they reused the guy. Choose your own adventure. - The stone circle also looks pretty similar to where Craster's baby was taken and turned in the Season 4 finale, or whenever that was. - KINGSMOOT! (This scene disappointed) A lot of crappy dialogue, but it works because the Iron Born are stupid. Good moment for Theon though. He's getting his agency back slowly but surely. Euron shows up and says "haha she's a woman and Theon doesn't have a penis. I am the captain now." - "Salt Throne" is so stupid. What was so wrong with the Seastone Chair? - Euron's plan is to take the Iron Fleet and bring Dany back to Westeros. Should go swimmingly. Yara and Theon run away with the fleet somewhere because they (rightfully) predict that Euron will have them killed. - Euron, Ramsay, and the Sand Snakes have all slain their kin to take a throne and no one seems to mind. Remember when kinslaying was a big deal on this show? - Jorah shows his grey scale to Dany. He also finally proclaims his love for her. She's bummed. She commands him to find a cure so he can be by her side when she rules Westeros. It's kind of a goodbye, but I also doubt that's the last we see of Jorah. - Varys tells Tyrion that the pact resulted in a tenuous peace between the Sons of the Harpy and the former slaves. Tyrion is smart enough to know that Dany needs to be the face of this peace. Since she's not here that's a bit of an issue. Tyrion remembers the Red Priestess from the Long Bridge of Volantis so he recruits her. She comes and basically agrees to put men in the streets to start talking about how awesome Dany is. - She also shuts Varys down a couple times, referencing the voice he heard when his parts were thrown in the flames when he was younger. Not sure it means anything, but it's interesting that she brings it up. - Kinvara and some of the Red Priests believe Dany is Azor Ahai. Melisandre of course believes Jon is that person. - Bran does a dumb thing. He sneaks into Weirwood.net and ends up back in that stone circle - this time in the present(?) - where it's wintery and snowy. The Wights acknowledge him. The Night King looks at him - then touches him! This is bad. Bloodraven then talks about how the NK will be there soon and Bran fucked up. So he responds by taking him into another vision. - Jon talks about the need for more men. Davos points out that the next three biggest houses are the Umbers, Karstarks, and Manderlys. Sansa thinks the Karstarks can be counted on (???). Jon thinks if they get the smaller houses to combine they can equal or surpass the strength of the Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers. - Sansa sends Brienne to get Tully support. Brienne isn't pleased. - Jon tells Edd "Don't knock [The Wall] down while I'm gone." This is obviously exactly what's going to happen. Poor Dolorous Edd. - Meera notices that ti's starting to get quite cold in the Cave which means the Others are near. Chaos ensues. The Children try to stop the advance of the White Walkers and the Wights but no dice. Meera tries to get Bran to wake up from his vision seeing Ned leaving for The Eyrie when he is younger. Why this is the place Bloodraven chose to take Bran when the WW attack was imminent we'll never know. By the way, the actor they got for Rickard Stark is perfect! - Meera kills a White Walker with one of the obsidian spears. - Another direwolf is killed in order to cut back on future CGI budgets. - Bloodraven gets got. Leaf sacrifices herself with one of those grenades to delay the Wights. - Before Wylas starts seizing he notices Bran in much the same way the Night King did in the earlier vision. This scene is incredible and I don't have much else to say. I've seen it three times now and it's still chill-inducing. Random Thoughts/Implications - Riverlands! Thoros reappearing at some point. Ian McShane playing Septon Meribald. Now if we can just get Jaime into the Riverlands and hating Cersei this thing will be back on track! - Might this traveling theatre troupe be the means by which Arya gets back to Westeros? - If the Children created the White Walkers, I think we can safely assume that they built the Wall as well. Question is how they ended up on the "bad" side of it? - Okay, so Meera and Bran have a 200 yard head start on the army of Wights about to burst through that door. That threat isn't done with. If only there were someone North of The Wall that could help them. Someone with cold hands perhaps? Or more likely, Benjen/Benjen-as-Coldhands. I think the shot in the second trailer of the hooded figure riding the horse and killing a wight is going to be the rescuer of Meera and Bran. Dunno where they'll be going though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Sorry, that post was unusually long (and I know most of it isn't worthwhile... I'm off my game). Next Week:- Bran and Meera still in trouble- Sam and Gilly arrive at Horn Hill- Margaery is slated to begin her Walk. We see the beginnings of the Tyrell/Faith Militant showdown. Cersei and Jaime stay pissed off.- Daario calls Dany a conqueror and she says she takes what is hers. Not much to go on there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Nymeria and her pack better return to take care of business. I need an epic direwolf win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 "You don't hang a giant wolf pack on a wall unless you intend to use it." -George RR Martin :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Anyone bothered that Game of Thrones just introduced time travel and a predestination paradox?Not at all. I'm usually anti-time travel, in fact -- but the visions, the "mark," and Wylis/Hodor were all too beautifully done for me to care, and you've have to be daft not to think Bran was gonna be predestined for something (even a paradox!) as soon as ol' Three Eyes showed up. Also, while I'm typically anti-time travel/predestination paradoxes, that's only because it is usually handled so poorly. Time travel was a huge component in the second Dragonlance trilogy, and that worked out great; the first Terminator movie was a solid science fiction/action film on its own, but Reese being John's father added a delicious thought-provoking cherry on top of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Also, did Bran cause alot of these problems? The Mad King heard voices that drove him mad. Could that have been Bran? I think it that could've been the Three-Eyed Raven's fault. Bran may learn a different lesson knowing what he did to Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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