Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Avengers 2


334 replies to this topic

#301
Lucas1138

Lucas1138

    Spam Lord

  • Moderators
  • 18,245 posts
Maybe stop worrying about how you would react in "real life" and start considering what you're doing/saying to give off that impression here in "fake life."

No need to rehash this particular conversation. It's over, we've both made our points. I'm moving on.

#302
Cerina

Cerina

    Now and forever...

  • Admin
  • 29,873 posts

I don't think you quite understand what being someone's PA/EA is like. Nothing I would call an "aide" or "secretary" that's for damn sure. Executive assistants like that are literally one of the most powerful people in a company. They know more, are responsible for more, and do more than most. They're not secretaries like you're thinking. They do more than keep calendars and get coffee. That position in itself is a huge success. If Tony never gave her the company because he thought he was dying, she would still have been running it. Or she could have taken her knowledge, training, brilliance, and connections and easily found herself a high level executive at another massive corporation. 

 

Jane is an astrophysicist. She has a PhD. She's Dr. Jane. Dr. Selvig is her mentor; what makes you think he was a failed professor? Seriously. Obtaining a doctorate degree in astrophysics isn't enough here? She was successful before Thor ever even made it onto earth. 

 

It's the fact that you can dismiss them so easily in spite of all of this that makes your original comment misogynistic. Your implication that without the men there's "nothing left" is misogynistic. The fact that you don't see them as having already established success by the first time they appear on screen is misogynistic. 


  • pavonis +1 this

#303
Stevil

Stevil

    TK421

  • Members
  • 2,491 posts
You miss my point. I actually don't like the fact that the men had to be involved so much in their success. In fact making them Executives or Doctors is all well and good but their actual success is still attributable to those 'superheroes'.

Executive assistant I just a title. It's nothing compared to CEO. Pepper could have been CEO somewhere else but it wouldn't have been Stark Enterprises the most powerful and richest company in the world. Many people have doctorates all over the world but not all of them have travelled to the home of the gods. Jane Norman's research was going nowhere until she got her break.

It's the narrative not me saying this. You can interpret it how you will but their successes are not solely attributable to their own making. There's nothing misogenistic about that.

#304
pavonis

pavonis

    Member

  • Member
  • 6,904 posts

I said they're both brilliant. But in the movies they got their leg up from the guys.


No. Thor did nothing for Dr. Foster - in fact, his arrival prompted SHIELD to show up. If anything, Thor was a detriment to her, and she gave him help despite the problems.
 

Jane was hanging round with a student, a bum and a failed professor before she met Thor and her well formulated theories proved to be right. However. She didn't invent trans-dimensional travel. It was always there. Now she tours universities giving lectures on it.


Of course she was "hanging 'round" with a student. That's what Darcy was there for - to be an assistant. There's absolutely no evidence that Selvig is a failed professor - Foster explicitly said she asked him to fly out to New Mexico when we meet them in Thor. He wasn't there just to be there. Foster was looking for some peer support about her theory, and turned to an expert.

 

And who the hell is the "bum"? Do you mean Thor himself? Or are you attaching the "bum" epithet to Selvig?

Foster doesn't have to have invented anything to deserve credit for her work. Astrophysicists don't invent things, anyway. That's what engineers are for. She has an explanation (the Foster theory, as Selvig refers to it later) for the Bifrost, and that deserves accolades. Hell, I bet Thor couldn't explain how and why the Bifrost works. He just has Heimdall send him to and fro through it.


  • NumberSix and Ryn +1 this

#305
Cerina

Cerina

    Now and forever...

  • Admin
  • 29,873 posts

Yes. Because she just came upon Thor by happenstance. :rolleyes: Not that her research led her to the exact spot at the exact time that a man just happened to drop out of the sky or anything. She was just there. Enjoying some girl time with an old guy, who was probably only invited to be a walking pocketbook, am I rite? Because why else would 2 young women want to be around an old guy. 



#306
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,994 posts

Personally I think any girlfriend would be better than Gwyneth Paltrow, she is the worst.



#307
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,994 posts

One thing I did like about the first Iron Man is that Tony and Pepper didn't get together. Too often in movies like this the female exists solely as sort of a prize for the hero to get at the end of the movie. Like "you saved the day, now you get to bang this hot chick." Think Arwen in LOTR. Pepper was outside of that, she had Tony's respect and ear without being with him in that first movie. It set her apart and made her character stronger.

 

Although even with them together there is no way Pepper keeps her position due to sleeping with Tony, Gwyneth must be a cold fish in bed.


  • Stevil +1 this

#308
Stevil

Stevil

    TK421

  • Members
  • 2,491 posts
He definitely wanted some though. I'll echo Cerina's earlier comment that it's nice that they've stayed together. There's too much breakup in the world.

I think the bit where she was in the suit cheapened her a bit though. It would be cool for Pepper to have had some lessons first and be able to do a bit more herself. I like the idea of the suit as a life saving device, but it was a missed opportunity to show some girl power.

#309
Darth Ender

Darth Ender

    Member

  • Members
  • 457 posts
I saw it last night in 3D. Wow...that was pretty terrible. I was tired of the movie by just seeing the mass exxplossions in the trailers (Fantaastic Four, Ant Man, some other ****). Honestly, the Star Wars trailer was the best part of the entire experienece. Why does every superhero movie have to involve the destruction of a city? From wheat I understand, Ultron exists in the internet. Why have that insane power and reduce your attack to killer robots? Why even have a villian with that power and not use it? This movie's villian might as well have been Baxter Stockman and his Mousers.
  • Filthy Jawa +1 this

#310
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,994 posts

I'm pretty sure that the Vision somehow took away Ultron's power to travel across the internet.



#311
Driver

Driver

    Tank

  • Supporters
  • 6,591 posts
Jarvis/pre Vision was keeping Ultron from hacking nuclear launch codes. It was a total throwaway line told to us and shown in the latter half. Kinda weak.

#312
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 8,994 posts

I also liked how the visual diagrams of Jarvis and Ultron somehow fought.



#313
Darth Lohr

Darth Lohr

    Voodoo Chile

  • Member
  • 16,969 posts

Finally got to see it this morning. The verdict?

 

 

Excelsior!  marvel-thumbsup.-hpjpg.jpg?width=300&hei



#314
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 19,076 posts
Saw it last night and felt that the pacing was off. Whedon excels at character development and relationship stress, and not just romantic relationships. Loki was a real threat in the first, but also personal. In this, Ultron was just there to be there. The mid credits scene indicates that maybe Thanos was involved, and that's why it suddenly worked, but I would have been nice to have a little more focus on that aspect. Or focus on anything but quips and fights.

#315
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,074 posts

Wow. 

Oh, come on. By now, he's just dropping bait to get responses like yours.



#316
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,074 posts

Saw it last night and felt that the pacing was off. Whedon excels at character development and relationship stress, and not just romantic relationships. Loki was a real threat in the first, but also personal. In this, Ultron was just there to be there. The mid credits scene indicates that maybe Thanos was involved, and that's why it suddenly worked, but I would have been nice to have a little more focus on that aspect. Or focus on anything but quips and fights.

That's why this film--being a bridge--does not hold up as an independent experience. Everyone knows where its going, so the producers just put this together more for necessity (of upcoming films) than for its own function.



#317
The Human Torch

The Human Torch

    zambingo

  • Members
  • 34,069 posts
That being the case is in itself not a thing people should bemoan. eg. Empire Strikes Back is a bridge between ANH and the conclusion in RotJ. Not at all saying this film is ESB. Just that it's purpose is like so, a piece of the whole.

#318
Driver

Driver

    Tank

  • Supporters
  • 6,591 posts

ESB wasn't a bridge. It had some cliff hangers and story danglers for sure-- but the story it set up for itself was satisfied. Empire was about, Luke facing the darkside (and himself), Han and Leia falling in love, and the Empire beating the rebels down. All those core ideas were set up in the first act, and all of them saw fruition by the end. 


  • The Human Torch and Justus +1 this

#319
The Human Torch

The Human Torch

    zambingo

  • Members
  • 34,069 posts
Yes, I understand and agree. ESB is arguably, and I would argue for it, being a totally better film and succeeding in all areas as both a film to which can be viewed by itself and as a piece of the whole. However viewing ANH then RotJ would leave astounding amounts of information and character growth out. The events and changes in AoU are attempting to do the same thing, paving the ground for the next plot. It's fair to say, "Hey! This doesn't do a good enough job [insert thing]." But to bemoan it being a piece flies in the face of wanting a serialized universe.

#320
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 19,076 posts
I think that the main complaint isn't that it's a piece, but rather that it seems to have no purpose beyond being a piece. If I throw a piece of wood down over a creek, I've made a bridge, but people still aren't going to want to visit it the way they want to visit the Golden Gate Bridge.

They took what could have been an intriguing story and instead made it solely action scenes broken up by setting up the next film. They didn't do a great job of telling a story with this film, it played more like a two and a half hour commercial.

It's not that it connects two films, but that it seems to have no real purpose beyond that. Every other Marvel film has existed to tell a story and then it also contained some Easter Eggs to set up the next Avengers film. This one ignored a lot of the subtlety.



On a different note, what's the timeline for this? IM3 ended with Stark blowing up his suits and "retiring" and this was all about a party of his retirement, so does this take place between the big fight in IM3 and the suit destruction?
  • The Human Torch +1 this

#321
ShadowDog

ShadowDog

    Supra-Awesome Badass PIE Pimp

  • Member
  • 42,592 posts
According to the link below Ironman 3 takes place before Agents of Shield Season One ... so way before Ultron.

http://marvelcinemat...m/wiki/Timeline

#322
Darth Krawlie

Darth Krawlie

    privileged ****lord

  • Moderators
  • 34,581 posts
Pretty sure the movies and shows are more or less being released in real time now. I think it's just phase 1 that wasn't in perfect timing.

Though with the Netflix shows I'm not entirely sure of that anymore.

#323
Driver

Driver

    Tank

  • Supporters
  • 6,591 posts

He also had the arc reactor removed from his chest in IM3.

 

I think nuking the suits was symbolic to him moving on to the next step, which was funding the Avengers are working toward his Iron Corps idea, but in the mean time he'd still suit up for the big jobs.



#324
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 19,076 posts
So Tony is like the Brett Favre of superheroes.
  • Jacen123 +1 this

#325
Justus

Justus

    Member

  • Member
  • 13,074 posts

So Tony is like the Brett Favre of superheroes.

Old and self-centered?





Reply to this topic