Jump to content

NBA 2013 - 2014 Season


Recommended Posts

The media can "report" whatever they want, and cite "various unnamed sources" or a "source close to the situation/individual." Like all this crap about the Lakers already planning to acquire LeBron. That's like saying I plan to pick up any $20 bills I see on the floor...well no ****. Anyone with cap space and freed up funds is going to speak with him when that time comes and make a pitch. That's a no brainer. But hey, let's attach him to the Lakers. That's a "story." I would rather see Kobe get one more ring with minimal help, just to show he still has the guns.

 

If Houston stands in their way, sure :) Or hell, even Golden State looks to be in great shape right now. I would be giddy to see the Warriors become a top four team for the next several years.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 572
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

That's the thing that apparently (thousands of) people don't realize, when your calf or whatever is cramping you literally can't move. Your only options are to ride it out and then treat it gingerly a

See, this is why you don't have games in Mexico City. Spurs/Timerwolves game was canceled because of fire.

Just read the Finals are going back to a 2-2-1-1-1 format. Good news.

Mark Jackson annoyed me too much as an announcer for me to cheer for Golden State. Strange, maybe, but true.

 

So, I started potentially feeling better about the Suns rebuilding after looking over their salaries for next year. They have a number of expiring contracts and three young players that are on the bubble - the Morris brothers and Kendall Marshall - are all team options. So, if they really start to blossom this year, great. However, assuming they are not kept and even assuming that the Suns do not move Dragic or Scola and that Channing Frye exercises his player option, we'll still only have a tad over $29M in salaries - almost $30M under the projected cap. It will hopefully be a little less than that, because they should try to extend Bledsoe ASAP and they'll have another rookie or two. Still, they should have a pretty good chunk of money to play with.

 

The problem is, looking at the list of free agents for 2014, there's not a whole lot to get excited about. The big names will go elsewhere and probably largely be overpriced, anyway. The few names that are truly intriguing (like Paul George, Greg Monroe, and Gordon Hayward) are almost certain to be restricted, if their teams haven't already locked them up by then. So, next year still doesn't look too promising, beyond the draft (hopefully). Now, the old regime probably would have thrown around money just for the sake of it and overpayed some mediocre guys.

 

Hopefully, the new brass will be smart enough to just be patient another year. Then, as things stand (and like I said above, assuming Dragic is not dealt and does not opt out that year, but the Morrises and Marshall are cut), Dragic, the young players from this year & next, and whatever they are hopefully paying Bledsoe will be the only things on the books. 2015 could have some very interesting possibilities, highlighted by LaMarcus Aldridge and Kevin Love, but also including guys like Paul Milsap (who just signed a 2yr/$19M deal with Atlanta), Marc Gasol, and Roy Hibbert. If the young talent pans out and we could add one of those PFs (especially Aldridge or Love) next to Len, we may be a playoff team again in two years, with upside down the road.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, Houston is apparently in talks with New Orleans to send Asik there in exchange for Ryan Anderson. If I were Ex, that's what I would be hoping for. Anderson and Howard were a great combo in Orlando and he would be a great fit. Josh Smith going to Detroit could be a very good thing for you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

* Darren Collison is headed to the Clippers ("sources")

 

* Dorell Wright has signed with Portland ("sources")

 

* The Cavs have landed Jarrett Jack (confirmed)

 

* Carl Landry is going to the Kings (confirmed)

 

* Other minor, unconfirmed "source" moves include Devin Harris back to Dallas, Zaza Pachulia back to the Bucks, and Shaun Livingston to the Nets.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oddly enough Dallas seems to be one of those teams people don't want to go to. For what ever reason. Cuban talks a good game but 2 years in a row now he has missed out on Deron Williams and Dwight Howard. And if Andrew Bynum is their fall back, lord help them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand the reluctance for Dallas. If you told me I maybe bought by the Jazz or the Timberwolves I'd be bummed because those cities are not flashy. But Dallas is a competitive team - regardless of Cuban.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, Houston is apparently in talks with New Orleans to send Asik there in exchange for Ryan Anderson. If I were Ex, that's what I would be hoping for. Anderson and Howard were a great combo in Orlando and he would be a great fit. Josh Smith going to Detroit could be a very good thing for you.

 

Yeah but that's basically hoping that Dwight can still play defense by himself like he did in Orlando. That team will be able to score, bu they'll ache for defense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And quite a frickin' check it is - $14M/year. Damn. He made less with the Hawks and I'm not sure he was worth what he got then. He's an inefficient scorer, a horrible free throw shooter, and fairly weak outside shooter. While he's still a good rebounder, he no longer necessarily lives up to his defensive reputation - over the last three years, he's averaged just 1.7 blocks and 1.3 steals, which is good, but hardly elite.

 

He'll be 31 when he's in the last year of this 4yr contract, so those numbers are more likely to go down, than up. Plus, well, there's the whole headcase thing. Yeah, Met, I don't get it, either.

 

I think you're underselling Smith a bit here. He's definitely still considered a near-elite defensive player in NBA circles. He's a destructive two-way force playing in the paint. And he's one of the more versatile players in the NBA (he and Lebron were the only two players in the league to average 17-8-4 last year).

 

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a329/Gggncar/joshsmith_zpsfa2251c5.jpg

 

As Kirk Goldsberry said, "Josh Smith is 1 tweak away from being a very good, very efficient scorer. Can Maurice Cheeks crack the code?"

 

Smith can almost be a bargain at $14M per year. He's not far away. Of course, I don't think this makes sense for the Pistons (Monroe, Drummond) which means Smith will see more time at SF- which if you look at the shot cart up there, is not what you want, I think good teams with cap room really missed an opportunity.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you're underselling Smith a bit here. He's definitely still considered a near-elite defensive player in NBA circles.

 

Is he? Smith has never in his career been 1st Team All-Defense and only once been named to the 2nd team - and that was three years ago. Two years ago, he only received two 1st team votes. And this past season, he didn't get a single vote for even the second team. I know you said "near-elite", but I question just how near if not even a single coach thought he was worthy of even second team status (keep in mind, there were 34 players that got at least one vote and he wasn't one of them).

 

I'm not saying he's not good defensively , but I am saying that I don't think he's "great". And that's supposed to be one of his strengths. His scoring is largely a product of volume. There were 29 players in the league that scored over 17ppg last year, so his 17.5ppg isn't exactly eye-popping, and 13 of those players did it on fewer shots than Smith. His rebounding (8.0 rpg career) is great for a SF, but far less impressive for a PF (which he has spent a big part of his career and, as you said, where he really needs to be at).

 

Like I said, I'm not saying he isn't good. And versatile may be accurate, but it's also somewhat misleading. I mean, LeBron James versatile and Josh Smith versatile are worlds apart in their definition. Sometimes a jack-of-all-trades is also a master of none. I just don't think he's worth that kind of money. That's all relative in pro sports, of course. Okafor and Deng get $14M a year, so from that perspective, maybe he does deserve it. However, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, and Russell Westbrook also make that same amount and maybe that just says that those other guys are just overpaid. :shrug:

Link to post
Share on other sites

And Phil took a subtle jab at Howard and the Astros, I mean Rockets. So I guess e can put that angle to rest Lol.

 

Self righteous prick. Whatever. Go coach the Bobcats or the Magic,then come make some more sarcastic remarks when you've miraculously coached one of those rosters to a championship the way you did MJ's Bulls and Kobe/Shaq's Lakers.

 

I'll be sure not to hold my breath :)

 

In a less insulting bit of news, the Rockets have brought back Francisco Garcia, and have filled the hole left in Delfino's departure (now signing with the Bucks, btw) by adding Omri Casspi. He also shoots the long ball, and brings more size to the table. Interesting acquisition, considering the Kings drafted him with a pick acquired from Houston in the Artest deal. This is another case of Morey looking at his per minute stats, and hoping to come out ahead by giving him more minutes. That worked well with Asik last year, hopefully it works here as well.

 

So now one of the popularar concerns about Houston, it's 3's, has been adressed immediately. I'd say it's no longer an issue, if it ever was. Now comes the test of defense. If they force Asik to stay, that isn't a biggie to me either.

Link to post
Share on other sites

None of what you said is wrong, Lohr, but I continue to think you undersell, sometimes massively. ("Lies, damn lies, and statistics" and all).

 

I'm going to flat out ignore coach-voted all-defensive teams and media-voted DPOY. A fine resource, but we have the tools to see how Smith actually played on the court.

 

Over the past two years Smith averaged 1.3 steals and 1.8 blocks. In that time frame, he was one of 5 players in the entire league to do average at least 1 steal and 1.5 blocks per game (including two players with just one season of experience).

 

Over the past two years, Smith has rebounded 23% of available defensive rebounds while he was on the floor. Smith was one of 19 players in the league to rebound at least 20% of the other team's misses. For a look at his individual defense you can go to Synergy Sports and take a look at his individual numbers, which compare pretty favorably to someone like Lebron

 

Over the past two years Smith has a Defensive Rating (estimate of how many points his team gave up while he was on the floor per 100 possessions) of 98. Of players playing 30MPG or more, there were only 8 in the league with that number under 100.

 

Over the past two years Smith has a Steal% of 2.0 (33rd in the league over that time) and a Block% of 3.8 (4th in the league). Of players playing 30MPG there were only 4 in the NBA over that time who had at least a STL% of 1.5 and a BLK% of 3.5.

 

Over the past two years Smith accumulated 9.4 Defensive Win Shares. During that time, only 6 players accumulated at least 9 Defensive Win Shares. He led the league in this category in 2011-2012 and was 12th in 2012-2013.

 

There were 29 players in the league that scored over 17ppg last year, so his 17.5ppg isn't exactly eye-popping

 

So less than 1 player per team. Undersell! :D Just don't point out his Offensive Rating, because that would be a good counterpoint. In anticipation of your counterpoint, I will counter with the fact that this is totally a fixable issue- and point you to 2010 when Mike Woodson talked him into not taking any 3s (.1/game) and he had an ORtg of 109, which is perfectly fine. Evidence by the shot chart I posted above, Smith is an elite scorer when he's inside. The key is getting him to stay there.

 

His rebounding (8.0 rpg career) is great for a SF, but far less impressive for a PF (which he has spent a big part of his career and, as you said, where he really needs to be at).

 

The first part of that is true. His rebounding is great for a SF. He was 2nd in the league last year among SFs. The second part about being "far less impressive for a PF" isn't really the case at all. At 8.4rbg last year he would have ranked 5th among PFs. And only 64 Forwards since 1970 have averaged at least 8.0 rebounds per game for their career- so saying his rebounding at the PF position is "far less impressive" isn't really fair.

 

40 players made at least $14M last year. Josh Smith is absolutely without a doubt one of the 40 best players in the league. But as you acknowledged, "overpaid" is a funny concept to deal with. (But seriously, were you hating on Luol Deng? Man you need to watch the Eastern Conference more often!)

 

Your honor, the defense rests.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not hating on Deng at all (wish the Suns had never dealt him away, actually). I was just saying that he is more comparable to Josh Smith than either of them is comparable to Aldridge, Love, or Westbrook. They aren't the "main guy" sort, more #2's than #1's (I'd say Westbrook is more #1b than #2). Maybe I am selling him short in some areas, like defense and rebounding (and I think you're probably overselling a bit and I would really be interested to know how his rebounding efficacy compares between when he's at SF and PF). Is he really a defensive whiz, though? A gamechanger? Considering that's really the strongest part of his game, I think he needs to be to really be considered a top player, because he's not that well-rounded offensively.

 

And my opinion also takes into account things beyond the stats. Your honor, I'd like to call my expert witness to the stand. Lucas1138, could you please tell the court what your opinion was of Josh Smith when you were discussing teams signing him as a free agent...?

 

Smith isn't much better. He's one of those guys who is "just good enough to get you fired." The guy thinks he's a small forward, and he hates spending any amount of time in the lane. And he's a headcase.

 

Thank you, Mr. Lucas. That will be all...

 

A "headcase". A man that knows, but continuously ignores, his offensive limitations to the detriment of his team. A man that is a liability at the free throw line. A man that some say "disappears in crunch time". A player with universally acknowledged talent and athleticism, but questionable focus and enthusiasm. Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I ask you, if this were your team, would you want them to throw $14M at Josh Smith?

Link to post
Share on other sites

(and I think you're probably overselling a bit and I would really be interested to know how his rebounding efficacy compares between when he's at SF and PF).

 

I'm glad you asked! Per 82games.com, Smith only played 13% of his minutes at SF last year. That's a negligible sample size- but for what it's worth he's a better rebounder at the PF position. Small Forward: 6.8Rebounds per-36. Power Forward: 8.8Rebounds per-36. (Apropos of nothing, he does have a better DRtg at SF, but like I said, far fewer minutes).

 

Is he really a defensive whiz, though? A gamechanger? Considering that's really the strongest part of his game, I think he needs to be to really be considered a top player, because he's not that well-rounded offensively.

 

I think that was demonstrated aptly enough. Elite (or "near-elite" if you must) defensive player. I don't think this can be questioned.

 

And my opinion also takes into account things beyond the stats. Your honor, I'd like to call my expert witness to the stand. Lucas1138, could you please tell the court what your opinion was of Josh Smith when you were discussing teams signing him as a free agent...?

 

Smith isn't much better. He's one of those guys who is "just good enough to get you fired." The guy thinks he's a small forward, and he hates spending any amount of time in the lane. And he's a headcase.

 

Thank you, Mr. Lucas. That will be all...

 

Objection, I can't be compelled to testify against myself. TRY AGAIN, BUCKO.

 

A "headcase". A man that knows, but continuously ignores, his offensive limitations to the detriment of his team. A man that is a liability at the free throw line. A man that some say "disappears in crunch time". A player with universally acknowledged talent and athleticism, but questionable focus and enthusiasm.

 

The numbers don't really bare out the whole "disappears in crunch time" thing.

 

Ladies and gentleman of the jury, I ask you, if this were your team, would you want them to throw $14M at Josh Smith?

 

If it were a team that was a "good environment" with a good coach I was convinced could get him to stop taking 3s, really attack the basket and thrive as an elite two-way player, sure. Because we've seen what happens when Josh Smith does that, he's one of the best 20ish all around players in the league. It happened in 2009-2010, I believe it can happen again. He's one tweak to his offensive game from being a really great player. He's not far away. He's 27.

 

I do think he's a headcase. I do think he's "good enough to get you fired." But that applies to a bevy of guys (Russell Westbrook, Dwight Howard, maybe Rondo?) but people clamor. He's a very good basketball player. The "good enough..." thing is because you can see how he could easily become a great basketball player.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, there are a couple of things that stand out in what you've been saying and what others have said, as well. Take this article that was written before the trade deadline of this past season...

 

After nine years of good-but-not-great service, ATL and Josh Smith appear to be traversing some pretty choppy waves. Just last week, Smith’s agent Wallace Prather came damn close to requesting a trade, venting “frustration” towards the organization’s recent swoon. This all comes from CBS Sports, who notes that “multiple rival executives confirmed that the Hawks have participated in trade conversations with several teams regarding Smith, a 27-year-old game-changing defender when engaged.”

 

When you're talking about a player that's going into his 10th season as a pro, his past tells you more about him than his potential. There are the things a guy is capable of and then there's the things he actually does. I'm simply of the opinion that when you reach that level of money, you should have a pretty fair amount of confidence that you're going to get what you pay for. That it shouldn't be a guessing game or crossing your fingers and hoping. If he stays focused, if he handles his himself in a mature manner, if he responds to coaching, if he follows the game plan, if he embraces the role of an inside player, if, if, if. "When he does this or that, he can do this...". And when he doesn't?

 

I love Joe Dumars. He's my favorite shooting guard of all time and he's been an excellent executive. He's also immeasurably more knowledgeable about basketball than I am. So maybe this was a great signing. All I know is that I'm glad it wasn't Phoenix. I'm going to miss Jared Dudley: a player that always gave his full effort, a guy that had a great head on his shoulders (both in terms of basketball I.Q. and decision making), and a guy that was one of those "glue guys" that helped a team gel. You know what you're getting from him every night. Those are the sort of qualities that help him play at a higher level than his talent and athleticism would maybe cause you to expect. Josh Smith is, in many ways, the polar opposite. That's why, ten years into his career, we're still talking about what he might be able to do for a team.

Link to post
Share on other sites

surprisingly i could care less about free agency this year, i dunno i might just be getting bored of the NBA

i was so excited for last season and everything the lakers went through just drained me of caring, the injuries, the bitching, the blaming everyone else

 

i'm just bored of it

Link to post
Share on other sites

That happened to me after Reggie Miller retired and the Pacers started endlessly sucking. It just got bored with the NBA and have never gone back beyond skimming this thread and checking scores every now and then.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I still say there's no better time than now to get back into it. First of all the Pacers have a really likeable (and not to mention really good!) team. As far as the league goes, there's more talent around the league than there's been at any point since at least the early 90s, if not before that. Like them or hate them, Lebron and the Heat are compelling. You've got the "old guard" of Kobe and Duncan still going strong. The basketball is really high quality, after the defenses got a little too good in the mid-aughts, the offenses are all catching back up. Durant (who people think is the more likeable superstar) is probably headed, conservatively, toward a top 20 career of all time. Lot's of interesting stuff!

 

I really got back into it when I started playing fantasy basketball, weirdly enough. All these other compelling things only bolstered the case. Then once I started watching consistently again I've just really enjoyed it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...