Pong Messiah Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 One man's lies... For over half a century, the comic book industry has been dogged by the work of one man, the anti-comics crusader and psychologist Fredric Wertham. His bestselling 1954 book The Seduction of the Innocent convinced parents and politicians alike that comics were a direct cause of violence, drug use, and homosexuality among young people. It led to the restrictive editorial code issued by the Comics Magazine Association of America, and a national movement to keep comics away from children and teens. Though Wertham claimed his evidence came from thousands of case studies, it turns out that he was lying. A new investigation of Wertham's papers by University of Illinois information studies professor Carol Tilley has revealed that the psychologist fabricated, exaggerated, and selectively edited his data to bolster his argument that comics caused antisocial behavior. Here is what Tilley discovered, and why it still matters today.Why is it that fervent moral "crusaders" inevitably resort to exaggeration, distortion, and lies to make their case? You know, if you can't make your point without making stuff up... maybe you should reexamine your premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 NO YOU'RE WRONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You know, if you can make your point without making stuff up... maybe you should reexamine your premise. Fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 WHAT DOES THAT MEAN BRANDO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 THAT IF YOU'RE NOT MAKING STUFF UP YOU DON'T REALLY CARE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION BRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 There's a pretty good defense of Wertham in Batman Unmasked: Analyzing a Cultural Icon by Will Brooker. He (Frederic) was a pretty good guy who basically spent his entire life helping kids as best as he could. LIARS CAN DO GOOD WORK TOO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 ^ liar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 There's a pretty good defense of Wertham in Batman Unmasked: Analyzing a Cultural Icon by Will Brooker. He (Frederic) was a pretty good guy who basically spent his entire life helping kids as best as he could. LIARS CAN DO GOOD WORK TOODoesn't change the fact that he used his position of authority to fraudulently justify his emotional/moral/intellectual hangups, harming others in the process. I don't care if he thought he was doing the right thing, I don't even care if he saved the British children, the man was an outrageous ****ing scumbag. As is anybody else who follows his pattern of behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I don't even care if he saved the British children, (nsfw? I guess?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Krawlie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I've watched that video probably close to 50 times and I've loved it every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the skiff guard Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Why is it that fervent moral "crusaders" inevitably resort to exaggeration, distortion, and lies to make their case? You know, if you can't make your point without making stuff up... maybe you should reexamine your premise. Looks like Amanda is attacking religion again... Wait...what are we talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Ramone Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I've known this for a while now. Good to see it confirmed I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumberSix Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yeah, this isn't exactly a surprise to anyone who's been reading comics for more than a decade. --> Value-added reading on the subject, including a link to the complete text of the original SOTI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Wait! OMG! Comics are for sexual deviants? It's so hard to tell! http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/01/25/judge-dredd-comic-writers-say-that-he-could-be-gay/ We embrace this, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transducer X Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You just know that Wertham was jacking off to Captain Marvel comics and then feeling guilty about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 I wouldn't be surprised at all, Transducer X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 There's a pretty good defense of Wertham in Batman Unmasked: Analyzing a Cultural Icon by Will Brooker. He (Frederic) was a pretty good guy who basically spent his entire life helping kids as best as he could. LIARS CAN DO GOOD WORK TOOInstigating Congressional inquiries? Crippling an industry that will never have the cross-generational readership of the 30's/40's? Creating tenuous links to delinquency that have bled into other juvenile passtimes? (I first read this article from a CBLDF email and thought, fleetingly at the beginning to post it here, but at its end was ready to throw my laptop into the wall in frustration. And there have been accusations of Wertham's manipulation for decades but to finally have scholarly research refuting his damage is really too good, too late.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Yeah. The book I mentioned goes into detail in its defense of him, mostly by focusing on the stuff he did after (like his involvement with the Brown v. Board court case) and also by pointing out that a lot of the stuff he said that was and still is derided (the stuff about Batman & Robin being a dream homosexual relationship, specifically) was apparently verbatim from the kids he interviewed rather than his own interpretation. This modern-day research might mitigate that, though, since it now seems unambiguous that he confabulated and exaggerated and did a lot of sloppy stuff to bolster his case. The book itself is quite good and its chapter on Wertham is excellent and really turned me around on him. I had the standard view of WERTHAM BAD (which may even be the correct one, chacun a son gout) and it changed my mind on that. I'm not saying any of what you, Pong, or any comic fan who knows about him is wrong or anything like that. He did irreparable harm to this art form and set the model for others to do the same for other forms of art. But knowing what I know about him means I don't have an entirely negative impression of the man even though he was a liar who lied and hurt others with his lies. THINGS NOT ALWAYS 100% PERCENT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER SOMETIMES THERE IS SHADES OF GREY PERHAPS EVEN 40 OR 50 SHADES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pong Messiah Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 I just can't see this as a gray area sort of thing. There is nothing wrong with holding beliefs and values -- if you hate comic books, heavy metal, Dungeons & Dragons, Facebook, etc., it's totally your business, and I'm totally fine with that. But if you are such a fanatic that you are willing to make **** up and harm people's careers and reputation to change public and political opinion and further your own goals, I have absolutely zero time for you. So he cared about and worked with kids? Great. Doesn't change the fact that he was, at his core, a liar, willing to destroy others to his own ends. **** him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest El Chalupacabra Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 You just know that Wertham was jacking off to Captain Marvel comics and then feeling guilty about it. Kinda like this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yml_-Mx82wY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryn Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 http://www.panelology.info/RavingManiac.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Torch Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Is it ironic or Morrisette Ironic that Wertham's crusade was to get comics out of kids' hands and now the industry has evolved to shop only or digital which essentially removes the chance for a kid to buy a comic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolence Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Intellectual dishonesty in academia?!? (Aghast...In complete and utter shock!) I'm sure this was the first and only time this has ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Is it ironic or Morrisette Ironic that Wertham's crusade was to get comics out of kids' hands and now the industry has evolved to shop only or digital which essentially removes the chance for a kid to buy a comic?A little ... too ironic. Don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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