Ms. Spam Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I am mixed feelings on this. It’s terrible what happened but I also don’t trust Israel’s current government. Why does it always have to be scorched earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 I feel pretty bad about the whole thing — and as we all know that’s what’s super duper important in the end; me and my feeeeeelings! they’re of world-historical consequence! they’re of unquestionable relevance! they truly matter! — and am deeply scared over what may happen in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted October 10, 2023 Share Posted October 10, 2023 It's terrible. War always is. But I hope we keep our beaks out of that hornets nest. I have a sense that the Israelis are going to do a Fallujah with Gaza, this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 6 hours ago, Zathras said: It's terrible. War always is. But I hope we keep our beaks out of that hornets nest. I have a sense that the Israelis are going to do a Fallujah with Gaza, this time. Good luck with that. Netanyahu is going to do his best to drag the US into this. Maybe into conflict with Iran since they're trying to link Iran to the Hamas attack. The boards of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin will be salivating. Dark times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 I don't think the US will commit troops to that, but the US is already sending weapons and ammo to the Israelis. Netanyahu is like Israel's Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 Biden worries me. And the rhetoric coming from Congress people too. I feel like this is a prime example of what happens when we let far far left or right wing people lead. One of the things I always liked all the way back to the Obama administration is how hands off the administration was with Israel. Trump was ineffectual and his moving the embassy was just window dressing stupidness. The many religions of this area just need to come out of their third world religious warring and learn to get along with each other. This war actually will galvanize a large group of people who actually don't like Netanyahu's leadership and were protesting him to at least put aside their grievances with the current ruling Israeli government. Hate crimes against Jews were on the rise in the US recently. America is so weird. UGH I wish I had more time to elaborate on my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 It's not just a Biden thing. When push comes to shove, the US is ALWAYS going to back Israel, no matter who is president (except maybe Trump). This is because Israel is the only democracy in the region, the long history both countries have, the high population of Jewish people in the US, and the Christians who support Israel. We may not send ground troops, but the US will always send whatever weapons they need. As for hoping the religions in the area (Jews and Muslims) will forego violence and war, you might as well wish for the sun to stop shining. After hundreds if not thousands of years of conflict, at this point we need to be real and accept that this is who they are: violent 3rd world people who hate each other more than life itself. The real blame in this particular war is Hamas and Iran, who are dedicated to destroying Israel to the point that it literally is part of their religion. The Israelis by no means are innocent, and make no mistake, they are an eye-for-an-eye, old testament country, but it was Hamas that struck first. Israel is tired of being attacked, and I think this time they are going to level Gaza. The Israelis see this coordinated attack as their 9/11, so obviously they are way pissed. As an outsider looking in, I am not really taking sides on this, just saying this is the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted October 13, 2023 Author Share Posted October 13, 2023 A lot is being said about the deal that Biden made to release hostages and release a bunch of Irans money, some of which they said funding this attack. But I also don't trust the current version of Netanyahu because these attacks happened without any whisper and were so under the radar that they had no warning in that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Turns out that is Republican misinformation. None of the $6 Billion was received by Iran yet, and it was earmarked for humanitarian aid only. It is still frozen at this time. https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/politics/us-qatar-iran-funds/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted October 30, 2023 Author Share Posted October 30, 2023 It's about trust. I mean I can't trust governments. Is this how we get like the crazies that are believing conspiracy theories?? Israel started its invasion. Looks like there's going to be tunnel warfare. I feel like we're going way back in time. A lady I sing with at church has a sister who is one of the hostages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Probably an unpopular opinion here but I think it is unfortunate that this Israel mess has distracted us from the war in Ukraine. I initially felt sympathy for the hostages, and still do, but I have no sympathy for Israel anymore. Considering they have killed over 10K civilians, that is basically the same war crime they suffered, and the Russians still inflict on the Ukrainians. Also, I see a danger of Israel dragging the US into a wider war, that quite frankly is unending, and there are no good guys on either side. Contrast that with the naked aggression the Russians inflict on Ukraine, where there is a clear good and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms. Spam Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 I have a neighbor who is Ukrainian and worries this will take away from her war. Ukrainians are facing a kind of war fatigue as this has gone on for longer than it should have if we count Russia invading Crimea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 12:41 AM, Zathras said: Probably an unpopular opinion here but I think it is unfortunate that this Israel mess has distracted us from the war in Ukraine. I initially felt sympathy for the hostages, and still do, but I have no sympathy for Israel anymore. Considering they have killed over 10K civilians, that is basically the same war crime they suffered, and the Russians still inflict on the Ukrainians. Also, I see a danger of Israel dragging the US into a wider war, that quite frankly is unending, and there are no good guys on either side. Contrast that with the naked aggression the Russians inflict on Ukraine, where there is a clear good and evil. Aint no such thing as good and evil when it comes to war. Just complicated geopolitical interest and nations doing what they want to acquire the resources/national interests secured of their respective nations. NATO's constant expansion in eastern Europe and meddling in Ukrainian/Russian politics pushed and pushed the Russian state to the point that Putins invasion was inevitable. The west is complicit. When the safety of one's family, and wider community is threatened all manner of atrocity can be justified by the perpetrators of atrocity to themselves. How far would you go in a time of conflict to ensure the survival of your children? With that being said, fuck the Israeli regime. Fuck Netanyahu. They are committing a genocide. They have slaughtered over 10k civilians, half of whom are children (five year olds making up the largest number of fatalities), in response to an initial attack that resulted in around 1200 dead Israeli targets and a few hostages that have now mostly been released. Israel is an apartheid state, but is also the US's "aircraft carrier" in the middle east. The US foothold in the region. It's no coincidence that there is an estimated 1.7 Billion barrels worth of Oil under Gaza and Gaza waters. The Palestinian people of Gaza and the west bank are ultimately fucked. And the western "liberal democracies" are content to let a genocide happen because western geo political interest demands it. I couldn't be more ashamed of the British government. This is a fucking disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 On 11/14/2023 at 6:00 AM, Odine said: They have slaughtered over 10k civilians, the vast majority children (five year olds making up the largest number of fatalities), in response to an initial attack that resulted in around 1700 dead Israeli targets and a few hostages that have now mostly been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 *amended original number in my rant. I should have been more accurate in my language but it's hard when you're mad. But about half the casualties in gaza have been children, which means 4,500 kids have been killed. There is no justification for that IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 Oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted November 16, 2023 Share Posted November 16, 2023 On 11/14/2023 at 6:00 AM, Odine said: They have slaughtered over 10k civilians, half of whom are children (five year olds making up the largest number of fatalities), in response to an initial attack that resulted in around 1200 dead Israeli targets and a few hostages that have now mostly been released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 A graph you got from twitter? What are you trying to say? I saw that one too. There is no indication that that graph includes data post October 7. There is also these articles that do. If you're trying to deny or defend child killing I really have nothing more to say to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 I am not trying to deny or defend child killing. On 11/14/2023 at 6:00 AM, Odine said: They have slaughtered over 10k civilians, half of whom are children (five year olds making up the largest number of fatalities), in response to an initial attack that resulted in around 1200 dead Israeli targets and a few hostages that have now mostly been released. Do five year olds make up the largest number of fatalities? Are most of the hostages released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbleh Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 almost half of the population of Gaza is under 18 (and also too young to have voted in the 2006 election), so it's not surprising that almost half of the fatalities are under 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 3 hours ago, captainbleh said: almost half of the population of Gaza is under 18 (and also too young to have voted in the 2006 election), so it's not surprising that almost half of the fatalities are under 18 Is that a defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted November 17, 2023 Share Posted November 17, 2023 5 hours ago, R.CAllen said: I am not trying to deny or defend child killing. Do five year olds make up the largest number of fatalities? Are most of the hostages released? Mostly was a poor use of language again. However Israel has thousands of detained palastinian prisoners, hostages if you will, that also have not been released. Supposedly Hamas and Israel are closer to an exchange. The hostages that have been released by Hamas have all spoken of how they were treated with dignity and respect, much to the chagrin of the IDF and Netanyahu. I have seen statistics that have demonstrated that of the minors killed by the IDF the age most represented is 5 years old. I'm struggling to find the same source documentation again however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 I think the thing with Israel is this. Everyone was on their side when the terrorist attacks happened. They were victims of terror. But when Israel started dropping bombs on hospitals and with over 10K dead and who knows how many wounded, Hamas base or no, you have a disproportionate response at that point. That tends to turn people against you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.CAllen Posted November 20, 2023 Share Posted November 20, 2023 On 11/17/2023 at 5:22 PM, Odine said: However Israel has thousands of detained palastinian prisoners, hostages if you will, that also have not been released. I won't. On 11/17/2023 at 5:22 PM, Odine said: The hostages that have been released by Hamas have all spoken of how they were treated with dignity and respect, much to the chagrin of the IDF and Netanyahu. These hostages also have relatives still being held in captivity. Eight other members of the family of the first pair released. The husbands of the second pair. I imagine I might say whatever my former captors told me to in that situation. On 11/17/2023 at 5:22 PM, Odine said: I have seen statistics that have demonstrated that of the minors killed by the IDF the age most represented is 5 years old. I'm struggling to find the same source documentation again however I’ll help you. I found it. The claim seems to have been made by a Norwegian tabloid newspaper on November 8th tallying up the dead up until October 26th. I have no idea if their math is correct. It could very well be! If it were true I’d have expected to see the claim repeated by a lot more reputable outlets as well. While “five-year-olds represent the largest age group” isn’t exactly the same thing as “five year olds making up the largest number of fatalities” or even “that of the minors killed by the IDF the age most represented is 5 years old”, well, I understand why that mistake would be made! Okay! Perhaps it was just another inaccuracy. Another poor use of language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 This is utter bullshit.... https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/01/politics/biden-administration-f15-fighter-jets-israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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