Wandavision

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Tank said:

 Yeah this is what I keep saying. I mean, I guess they could say it's because she went through three times, and everyone else had the barrier go up around them?

So maybe if Bee Keeper dude goes through one more time he too will get powers?  I still think it makes more sense to have it related to Carol somehow.

Everyone is talking about a big cameo at the end. Either it's Dr Starneg and the worst kept secret, or it's Carol. At some point you have to assume that if an Avenger goes missing, another Avenger would eventually show up right?

I've also been spinning out on SWORD a bit. If Monica's mom helped establish SWORD after the events of Captain Marvel, that would make sense. She'd been to space, knew the Skrulls taking refuge on Earth-- so sure, I'd buy a super secret space program that no one knew about... but man did they drop the ball in the battle of New York.

I mean, as far as prequel retcons go it's not a huge deal-- the comics have made much bigger messes.

But they definitely implied Monica had been to space.

It’s also highly possible they created it after New York. I mean, it’s kinda weird that a super established agency wouldn’t be able to get their people to go to space after the snap. It makes more sense if it’s new.

[Tank]

It’s seems like Mar-Vell was trying to partially jumpstart humans development, and SHIELD was friends with Skrulls who’d have know how. But you could right.

It does remind me of Rocket razzing Cap and Nat “Who here hasn’t been to space? Don’t throw up in my ship.” And Scott “Aw you wanna go to space? I can take you to space.” And even Tony “You’re only a genius on Earth, pal.”

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Tank said:

It’s seems like Mar-Vell was trying to partially jumpstart humans development, and SHIELD was friends with Skrulls who’d have know how. But you could right.

It does remind me of Rocket razzing Cap and Nat “Who here hasn’t been to space? Don’t throw up in my ship.” And Scott “Aw you wanna go to space? I can take you to space.” And even Tony “You’re only a genius on Earth, pal.”

 

I would also think that SWORD could have come after Winter Soldier and the downfall of SHIELD.

[Cerina]

SWORD could have been more diplomatic and exploratory in nature until New York. And afterwards they decided to become more weaponized. 

[Guest]

Lotta stuff in this one, but it’s also probably the least exciting episode. Still good, but just not what I expect.

Having said that, lots of great moments. Scarlet Witch. Agatha kicking ass. To grow old. Fietro. 

Was Wanda already powerful before the Mind Stone? It sounds like maybe she was! So maybe she’s a mutant made more powerful by an infinity stone.

Mid-credits scene - eek. 
 

I was wrong about Wanda creating the Hex. And I’ve never been happier to be wrong. That was the best scene in the entire episode. 

[Tank]

Were you wrong? They implied last week it was all Agatha, but now she says it's all of Wanda's creation, and we saw her change over the whole town.

So did she create the Hex, and then Agatha shows up and starts to manipulate it to try and figure how a telekinetic super hero is doing witch shit?

So originally, they had said Hydra had given Wanda and Pietro powers via the mind stone. That was the mid-credits stinger in Winter Solider, and then backed up by Age of Ultron. At that point it seemed very planned.

Now we see they were just tossing people next to the stone, and as it turns out, Wanda was born with some innate ability to wield magic, and the Mind Stone basically enhanced that. So her powers are not extra-nornal, they are magical, but because she does it sans incantation, it comes off like super powers. 

Agatha seemed bound by the same sorts of rules that Dr. Strange is-- gestures and words of power. So I guess the "Scarlet Witch" is something in magic more in the MCU that is a prophecy about person who can do magic on thought alone? It's all but confirmed that Strange is going to show up here, and that Wanda is in the next Dr. Strange movie-- so this all tracks.

It also, more or less, tracks with what happened in the comics. She started as a mutant, but as her powers grew and became uncontrollable, she trained with Dr. Strange to get them under control.

As far as retcons go, it's definitely a well-orchestrated one that both doesn't cause continuity errors with what has come before, is adjacent to the comics, and gave us a fun twits. Kudos to them.

I also love that the flashback to the bomb in the apartment was exactly as she described it to Tony Stark in Age of Ultron.

Really, the only thing that doesn't fir is how Pietro got his powers. Maybe now that they can use mutants in the MCU it's as easy as retconning it to say he too was born with some power and the Mind Stone brought it out?

Still Magneto connection, but I'd be surprised if they went that far.

One other important thing, we see that SWORD Director dude was definitely lying. YES, Wanda busted into that lab like the video he showed-- but she left. He told everyone at the briefing she stole Vision's body. The vision IN the hex is a simulacrum created by Wanda. Which means the one woken up on the outside is not.

Calling it now-- Wanda's telepathic powers saved a "copy" of Vision which she used to make her version, and somehow that will get projected into the body to bring him back.

All THAT said... Vis being not real in the hex does not bode well for the kids actually existing. That happened in the comics, and it was what made her create a false reality., which lead to her wiping out mutants. A lot of people are theorizing they will flip that idea and in this case, she will cause mutant kind.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Tank said:

Were you wrong? They implied last week it was all Agatha, but now she says it's all of Wanda's creation, and we saw her change over the whole town.

So did she create the Hex, and then Agatha shows up and starts to manipulate it to try and figure how a telekinetic super hero is doing witch shit?

So originally, they had said Hydra had given Wanda and Pietro powers via the mind stone. That was the mid-credits stinger in Winter Solider, and then backed up by Age of Ultron. At that point it seemed very planned.

Now we see they were just tossing people next to the stone, and as it turns out, Wanda was born with some innate ability to wield magic, and the Mind Stone basically enhanced that. So her powers are not extra-nornal, they are magical, but because she does it sans incantation, it comes off like super powers. 

Agatha seemed bound by the same sorts of rules that Dr. Strange is-- gestures and words of power. So I guess the "Scarlet Witch" is something in magic more in the MCU that is a prophecy about person who can do magic on thought alone? It's all but confirmed that Strange is going to show up here, and that Wanda is in the next Dr. Strange movie-- so this all tracks.

It also, more or less, tracks with what happened in the comics. She started as a mutant, but as her powers grew and became uncontrollable, she trained with Dr. Strange to get them under control.

As far as retcons go, it's definitely a well-orchestrated one that both doesn't cause continuity errors with what has come before, is adjacent to the comics, and gave us a fun twits. Kudos to them.

I also love that the flashback to the bomb in the apartment was exactly as she described it to Tony Stark in Age of Ultron.

Really, the only thing that doesn't fir is how Pietro got his powers. Maybe now that they can use mutants in the MCU it's as easy as retconning it to say he too was born with some power and the Mind Stone brought it out?

Still Magneto connection, but I'd be surprised if they went that far.

One other important thing, we see that SWORD Director dude was definitely lying. YES, Wanda busted into that lab like the video he showed-- but she left. He told everyone at the briefing she stole Vision's body. The vision IN the hex is a simulacrum created by Wanda. Which means the one woken up on the outside is not.

Calling it now-- Wanda's telepathic powers saved a "copy" of Vision which she used to make her version, and somehow that will get projected into the body to bring him back.

All THAT said... Vis being not real in the hex does not bode well for the kids actually existing. That happened in the comics, and it was what made her create a false reality., which lead to her wiping out mutants. A lot of people are theorizing they will flip that idea and in this case, she will cause mutant kind.

I was wrong because all along I thought that someone else had created the Hex / sitcom world and left Wanda in charge. Instead it was Wanda all along. 
 

As for the kids, didn’t Agatha say that the Scarlet Witch has the ability to create? I need to watch it again.

[Tank]

She does— but her creates seem limited to the hex. She essentially created Vision to and when he tried to leave he began to break down.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Tank said:

She does— but her creates seem limited to the hex. She essentially created Vision to and when he tried to leave he began to break down.

But was she actually creating him? 
 

Or is she going to just encompass the entire world in the Hex after taking Agatha’s power?

[Tank]

They showed her remaking him inside the Hex, when his body was still with SWORD. The mid credits scene made it pretty clear they were separate entities I thought.

[Guest]

Sorry, I meant it more as "Did she create him or did she just create an illusion?" We've seen Vision start to pull apart after leaving the Hex, but we also saw things that were altered in the Hex stay that way. So we're seeing distinctly different powers, where she can completely rewrite things but also can create illusions that exist solely in the Hex.  But there has to be something more to Vision since he can be tracked. 

Some of what she does can exist outside the Hex, some can't.  We have some assumptions about how that works, and it seems to involve redesigning things versus completely creating. That's the safe assumption, but it's still just assumption. And maybe she stole the kids? 

Also, if White Vision goes into the Hex, can Wanda just rewrite him to be the old Vision, complete with her vision (heh heh) of how he should be, ala sitcom Vision?

[Tank]

Forgot about them tracking Hex-Vision...

Yeah, something still isn't fully explained... but yeah-- I'm sure the merging of Wanda's Vis and the white vis will give us a resurrection for the character.

If that happens, with Gamorra being replaced by herself from an alt-time line and Coulson having been resurrected visa Kree technology, that means the only "big" deaths in the MCU that will be permanent are Tony and Natasha, right?

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

Forgot about them tracking Hex-Vision...

Yeah, something still isn't fully explained... but yeah-- I'm sure the merging of Wanda's Vis and the white vis will give us a resurrection for the character.

If that happens, with Gamorra being replaced by herself from an alt-time line and Coulson having been resurrected visa Kree technology, that means the only "big" deaths in the MCU that will be permanent are Tony and Natasha, right?

 

Yeah, and they’ll definitely figure out a way around it if they feel the need.

[Guest]

I’m going to list my predictions for the finale, the ones I’m most sure of:

1) White Vision will be closer to Ultron than Vision, but Vision’s mind/soul from the Hex will win and take the body.
 

2) Vision is going to leave Wanda because of how she enslaved an entire town.

3) Doctor Strange will show up and take Agatha to magic prison

4) The post-credits scene will be the bunny transforming into a person

[Tank]

I agree with all of these, and I think there will be some sort of Captain Marvel tie in.

[Darth Krawlie]

Director expects many people to be disappointed over finale because of all the fan theories.

lol. geeks, man.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Darth Krawlie said:

Director expects many people to be disappointed over finale because of all the fan theories.

lol. geeks, man.

I’ll be happy if I’m wrong on every count. But given the number of people who still keep screaming “Mephisto” pretty much anything except that character is going to piss them off.

[Darth Krawlie]

Mephisto, Nightmare, Reed Richards, Blue Marvel, Magneto... all these people who are DEFINITELY GOING TO APPEAR. I like reading the speculation and fake 4chan spoilers and sometimes even real spoilers, I just don't get the people who get so married to an idea they're personally insulted when someone disagrees/when it doesn't end up happening. It's really weird.

[Cerina]

Honestly, if they did decide to use Mephisto, they'd have to change the character a bit. I don't think a demon/devil would be a great idea with the rest of the MCU. There's too much religious baggage there, and I'll bet they'd just rather not tug at that thread. 

 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Darth Krawlie said:

Mephisto, Nightmare, Reed Richards, Blue Marvel, Magneto... all these people who are DEFINITELY GOING TO APPEAR. I like reading the speculation and fake 4chan spoilers and sometimes even real spoilers, I just don't get the people who get so married to an idea they're personally insulted when someone disagrees/when it doesn't end up happening. It's really weird.

I was a little unhappy with the Goodner reveal, as I said before, but at the same time the idea that they would introduce Reed Richards that way was moronic. But, yeah, people go crazy about this stuff. 
 

Anything that overshadows Wanda isn’t going to happen and is stupid. 

[Tank]

I’m just trying to discern if the OMG CAMEO the cast has mentioned is Dr Strange and/or Fietro, which were both spoiled by casting reports as soon as the first episode landed, or if there’s a legit surprise coming.

[R.CAllen]

I didn't really dig this one. Characters just talking about their feelings and seeing their own pasts over and over again? No thank you! (I also disliked how the show begins with a non-diegetic flashback but then spends the bulk of its time with diegetic ones.)

 

• No money in the budget for Thomas Kretschmann!? Come on!

• The idea of Wanda inadvertently rescuing a materially depressed & spiritually despondent suburb from its drab life of precarious employment & loneliness is kind of a neat one. Sure, maybe Debra Jo Rupp is now being painfully mindcontrolled but at least she's got Fred Melamed for company!

• I kind of assumed they'd bring back a classic Byrne white Vision for Avengers : Endgame (2019) and when they didn't I just wrote that possibility off completely. But it's here! It's happening! I hope it wasn't just for a post-credits tease. I hope that's his look. (Also, of course, works well with the show's monochromatic motif w/the black'n'white TV stuff and how colour delineates reality in those spaces.)

 

I don't really have much in the way of concrete predictions for the finale. I mean, what will happen next on WandaVision™? Whooo can say?

 

But I do think there's a range of possibilities for how one specific thing goes down.

 

From most likely to least likely :

 

- Wanda 'killed' by husband

- Wanda 'killed' by kid(s)

- Wanda 'killed' by Captain Monica Rambeau

- Wanda 'killed' by Wanda

- Wanda 'killed' by Aaron Taylor-Johnson version of Quicksilver

- Wanda 'killed' by Fred

- Wanda killed by Elf with a Gun

[zambingo]

I don’t think we’re watching Wanda & Fam go thru this just to then have her dead.

—

My original thought for who I wanted to be behind all this was Mojo. I just figured Mojo fit with the television show aspect and I thought maybe this would bring the mutants into the MCU. That said, glad they went the route they went.

[Darth Krawlie]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

I’m just trying to discern if the OMG CAMEO the cast has mentioned is Dr Strange and/or Fietro, which were both spoiled by casting reports as soon as the first episode landed, or if there’s a legit surprise coming.

Part of me thinks its the second Vision and Paul Bettany's been trolling by saying it's an actor he always wanted to work with--himself. I kinda hope so. That'd be hilarious.

[Tank]

Just now, Darth Krawlie said:

Part of me thinks its the second Vision and Paul Bettany's been trolling by saying it's an actor he always wanted to work with--himself. I kinda hope so. That'd be hilarious.

I'm with you on being all for whatever pisses off the type of fan who gets mad when their theory doesn't pan out.

47 minutes ago, zambingo said:

I don’t think we’re watching Wanda & Fam go thru this just to then have her dead.

—

My original thought for who I wanted to be behind all this was Mojo. I just figured Mojo fit with the television show aspect and I thought maybe this would bring the mutants into the MCU. That said, glad they went the route they went.

I was definitely thinking Mojo as well at first, until it became a little more clear Wanda was in control... or is she? If it was "Agatha all along" why is she asking Wanda HOW YOU DO THAT. I guess it's that Wanda made it, but all the stuff that was out of her control was Agatha manipulating things. Like killing Sparky.

 

1 hour ago, R.CAllen said:

- Wanda 'killed' by

 

Putting in quotes tells me you're not being literal, but she;'s likely to become "Scarlet Witch" in the finale and she's been confirmed for the next Dr Strange movie. They're not killing her off, and it's looking likely they are bringing Vision back.