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2016 U.S. General Election

2016 U.S. Election LOL

570 replies to this topic

#1
Pong Messiah

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Just general election talk, so we don't have to mix and match parties, position, etc...

 

I'll start.

 

I wish Petersen wasn't pro-life and so anti regulation, 'cause I'd totally vote for him:

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#2
The Kurgan

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I find it sad.  It really doesn't look like any good options are open now.



#3
monkeygirl

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I want Canada's PM

#4
Pong Messiah

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I find it sad.  It really doesn't look like any good options are open now.

Kinda... that said, I think the ****tiness is kind of overstated, because everybody but the hardcore Bernie/Trump supporters are butt-hurt that there is nobody who is pitch-perfect for them.

 

I'm one of those butt-hurt folks who doesn't really have any one candidate I love, but when I break 'em down, they really don't seem so bad:

  • Hillary Clinton probably aligns with me the most closely. She panders way too much on the identity politics front (especially now that Bernie made her sweat), and of course there's the "Clinton Sleeze Fatigue" factor, but so long as she doesn't end up leaving office in handcuffs, I think she'd be fine.
  • Bernie Sanders is a dumbass, but he is a nice dumbass and right about the screw job. I see him as even more "president under siege" than Obama and not accomplishing anything of note, but a victory by him would be worth it just to see the look on Debbie Wasserman Schultz's face. And who knows -- if we're lucky, it might be the beginning of a healthy political realignment. I can dream, right?
  • Marco Rubio is too hawkish (though not much more than Clinton, really), and bangs the pro-life/traditional values drum too often, but he's not a dummy. I actually like his child tax credit, ending the marriage penalty* and "encouragement" based leave options. He's not ideal, but he's not a monster, either.
  • John Kasich is probably second closest to me ideologically behind Clinton, and I find him more likable and less likely to end up impeached. A few of the conservatives I follow have taken to calling him "John Mushmouth," because he is "so eager to be pleasant and make terrible deals with the other side, he doesn't stand for anything," but that's more of a pro than a con as far as I'm concerned.
  • Donald Trump is a carnie, but would a victory by him be worth it as a repudiation of political correctness and an opportunity to see the heads of humorless progressives, crusty arch conservatives, chickenhawk neocons, and pretty much the entire political class all explode as one? I can't in good conscience go that far, but I can say the prospect of a Trump presidency doesn't send me into convulsions like it does many people I know... and even more so than with Sanders, I would expect to see some major realignment.

 

Of course I left Cruz and Carson off the list because I genuinely detest Cruz and genuinely believe Carson is a kook (and not just 'cause the lamestream media says so). I also left libertarians, greens, and other third-party peeps off the list, because, well... let's not pretend they ever had a chance.

 

 

 

*not really an issue unless it's like a couple where one makes $36k and the other $39k per year getting bumped to the next bracket if they file, but it's still a nice idea and I'm looking for non-mean things to say about Rubio.



#5
The Kurgan

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I want Canada's PM


You can have him. I'll keep his wife, though.

Hillary strikes me as corrupt and self serving, but probably "safest" in light of the likelihood we'd see the least policy variation from what we've been getting under Obama. Which is far from ideal, but better than the alternative. The best we can now hope for is that the entire nation will hold their nose and vote her in. That's the best we can hope for. Think that one over.

Sanders is just a puppet. Will he stand back and allow Black Lives Matter protesters to take over is inaugural address too? While I kinda like the idea of a self described "socialist" making a serious bid for top spot, I'm also quite cognizant of the fact that there's no such thing as socialism now, and hasn't been for a long time. It is all, all of it, SJW stuff now. Communist and Anarchist sites are 140 proof SJW on the rocks: anti PIV feminism and Black Hebrew Israeli type stuff. Notably absent is any discussion of nationalizing or placing industry under worker's control. Not that it would matter since he'd be hard pressed to get a damned thing through congress anyway. A very long shot, at best.

I don't know about the other republicans. Most likely won't matter after tomorrow. Ted Cruz is your guy if having an Ayatollah for a president is your thing. The others, I'm guessing, are more bog-standard, "who-would-Jesus-bomb" neocons. Didn't these guys screw things up bad enough in the 2000-2008 time frame?

Trump is total fluff. Entertainment plain and simple. While I too relish the thought of endless reservoirs of neo-con AND SJW tears a Trump victory would result in, I think the euphoria would wear off once we realized just who and what we put in the Oval Office. This guy appoints fed chairs, selects supreme court justices, can send the nation's youth to war and has access to the bomb. Let's hope he doesn't use it once he realizes his nielsen ratings are sagging. I think fears surrounding his alleged fascism and resemblance to Hitler are overblown. Don't give him such credit. Hitler was on a mission, and it was a big deal. Lebensraum and the thousand year Reich were serious business, as his actions as chancellor and fuhrer made clear. Trump ... his campaign has been a complete dog-and-pony show, trash talking his opponents like a WWE wrestler, more suited to reality T.V or a shock D.J than someone worthy of being chief executive of the most powerful nation on the planet. He's made a complete mockery of your political process. And given what an object of disdain that already is, that's really saying something.

#6
Pong Messiah

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Sanders is just a puppet. Will he stand back and allow Black Lives Matter protesters to take over is inaugural address too? While I kinda like the idea of a self described "socialist" making a serious bid for top spot, I'm also quite cognizant of the fact that there's no such thing as socialism now, and hasn't been for a long time. It is all, all of it, SJW stuff now. Communist and Anarchist sites are 140 proof SJW on the rocks: anti PIV feminism and Black Hebrew Israeli type stuff. Notably absent is any discussion of nationalizing or placing industry under worker's control. Not that it would matter since he'd be hard pressed to get a damned thing through congress anyway. A very long shot, at best.

Dude, Sanders ain't no SJW, and he's not a socialist in a "means of production" sort of way. He's a tax-the-rich, regulate-the-corporations welfare statist, but he won't have us all in Mao Suits. And seriously, even though he's been passive with the BLM folk taking over his stage and adopted the language of identity politics (after Clinton ramped it up), he's definitely not a SJW.



#7
The Kurgan

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Dude, Sanders ain't no SJW, and he's not a socialist in a "means of production" sort of way. He's a tax-the-rich, regulate-the-corporations welfare statist, but he won't have us all in Mao Suits. And seriously, even though he's been passive with the BLM folk taking over his stage and adopted the language of identity politics (after Clinton ramped it up), he's definitely not a SJW.


If so, he's a damn tragic figure. A generation too late, and now most likely among the last of his kind. Too bad too, because what you're describing above is sorely needed.

#8
Pong Messiah

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If so, he's a damn tragic figure. A generation too late, and now most likely among the last of his kind. Too bad too, because what you're describing above is sorely needed.

Well, he's been around forever!

 

He's always been pro-civil rights/equality, but while he does pit haves against have-nots (kind of in the job description for class warriors), he's never been big about further dividing people by gender, race, sexuality, etc. The reality, though, is that his audiences are like 99% lily-white and college educated, so he had to start ringing those bells -- in the hopes of attracting more minority voters, and to further fire up his core audience (who eat SJW buzzwords like sea salt kettle chips). But IMO, those moments are when he comes off as the least authentic.



#9
The Kurgan

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He's always been pro-civil rights/equality, but while he does pit haves against have-nots (kind of in the job description for class warriors), he's never been big about further dividing people by gender, race, sexuality, etc. The reality, though, is that his audiences are like 99% lily-white and college educated, so he had to start ringing those bells -- in the hopes of attracting more minority voters, and to further fire up his core audience (who eat SJW buzzwords like sea salt kettle chips). But IMO, those moments are when he comes off as the least authentic.


So ... kind of the perfect mirror image of Donald Trump trying to pass himself off as a Christian to win evangelical support?

#10
Pong Messiah

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Well, it's not like he hasn't always been on the side of civil rights for all. He's just always been way, way more into economic/worker's rights issues, and I think even viewed civil rights through that lens, rather than identity politics.

 

But yeah, he's a politician, and politicians gotta do what they gotta do :)



#11
The Kurgan

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That's frankly astounding. One can almost be forgiven for thinking that economic/worker's rights are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe, based on any leftist media or blog stateside to which I've been exposed in the last fifteen years. I've frankly never, never seen anything in the social media age from the left that wasn't about identity politics. 



#12
Pong Messiah

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Dude, read his website:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/



#13
Ms. Spam

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Are we ready?

 

Yesterday Trump gave his first - FIRST - scripted speech.

 

Hillary is our first woman something.

 

Bernie is treated tenderly or prickly depending the Senator as he ponders "WTH? I didn't win? What now? Maybe I'll get my voice back".

 

This weekend during the Texas Folklife Festival we'll have Trump here in town for a fundraiser while the Texas Democrats have a convention. I fear for traffic this weekend.



#14
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Dude, read his website:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

I don't agree with everything he is saying, maybe agree with only 1/2  of it, but he is the only candidate that has the balls to get that specific, and talk about more than the sh*t everyone talks about EVERY election, like the economy and abortion.  I like how he is talking about Native American, Native Hawaians, Puerto Ric, and Guam.  I have to say I respect the fact he is willing to take a stand, even if I don't agree with some of his stances or ideas. 

 

All we get from Hillary are the same platitudes from the 1990s, and all we get from Trump is vague bluster and "trust me."



#15
Ms. Spam

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This is really weird. I'm sensing an embracing of a third party candidate much more this year. Today already Gary Johnson has been mentioned 11 times.



#16
Poe Dameron

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Yeah, at some point, Johnson might just break through and people will start taking him seriously as a candidate.  Already he's set to be the biggest 3rd party candidate since Perot.

 

If he can convince the nation that both Clinton and Trump suck (not difficult) and appropriate Sanders' army, then maybe it can be something.



#17
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Johnson and Sanders are very different though. Might be hard.

#18
Brando

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Given that Sanders mainly pushed on economics, and they are polar opposites, I don't think Johnson is picking up many Sanders voters, unless they are just protest voters who aren't smart enough to vote Green.

#19
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Sanders voters will be largely (but not wholly) picked up by Hillary Clinton.  Sanders will drop out and endorse Hillary.  It's just a question of when.   



#20
Ms. Spam

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Well Sanders is heading to the senate floor on Monday to do his actual job voting on gun legislation.

I was eating lunch at a taco joint and cnn is talking about the dump trump movement. The gop is so stupid right now. They're freaking out because new polling number show trump crashing to earth. You waited to long for secret Cruz lunches and complaining on Twitter, gop dudes. Your crudest base has voted in the primaries. And now you are saddled with something that will more than likely lead to nothing.

#21
Poe Dameron

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Given that Sanders mainly pushed on economics, and they are polar opposites, I don't think Johnson is picking up many Sanders voters, unless they are just protest voters who aren't smart enough to vote Green.

Well, with consistency sure.  Socialists and libertarians are obviously in direct conflict with one another even moreso than the traditional liberal/conservative divide.

 

But I think libertarian policies will be attractive to the young voters who want to go against the grain too.  Toss in the marijuana legalization platform and there you go.

 

Well Sanders is heading to the senate floor on Monday to do his actual job voting on gun legislation.

 

Frankly, the Democrat pivot straight to gun control shows their utter lack of seriousness about doing their actual jobs.

 

The liberal response to Orlando has been shameful.


  • Ryn +1 this

#22
Ms. Spam

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Wut? - this is directed at Poe. I mean gun control seems very liberal and something Sanders would make an effort on.

 

I love this election. Trump says he'll speak everyday during the GOP convention. Just not at the actual convention - for him, the presumptive nominee.



#23
Poe Dameron

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Gun control has nothing to do with what happened in Orlando though.  It's not a serious response.  Neither are the other insinuations that opposition to gay marriage somehow is responsible for this.

 

We've got terrorism happening, and the Democrats have shifted the issue to something else.  Including solutions that, as Fozzie pointed out in the other thread, rather trash both the 2nd Amendment and due process, but won't do a darned thing to stop the next attack.  Even the French at least started by grappling with the idea that a religious/ideological form of terrorism was front and center the most important and deadliest threat.  In this country, the press and one of its major parties more or less treated it as a side issue to the preferred safe moral high ground (at least within their own circles) of gun control.

 

I am not sure if it is opportunism or cowardice.  But it is certainly embarrassing.



#24
Ms. Spam

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Maybe because I am liberal communist bad word grumble mutter spit jerk I think you are way off base.

 

What happened in Orlando was not a terrorist event. The FBI and other investigatory services are thinking this dude had another motive, that is hate or mental issues, that drove him to do this. Almost all incidents involving mass murder on this scale was because someone was able to go to a gun store and buy a AR-15 and then go kill as many people as they want. Arming these people is clearly the issue. And a Democrat issue at that. People in the military are issued these weapons, taught weapon "rules" and these weapons are accounted for. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry need this.

 

I think you're trolling me. Seriously. 



#25
Brando

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In its broadest sense, is defined as the use of violence or threatened use of violence (terror), often targeting civilians, in order to achieve a political, religious, or ideological aim.


How is it not a terrorist attack?



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