Lucas1138 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 ..it went on for way too many books. That's why I liked it, it created a whole sub-universe with its own mythology and rules. Even though it led to a few stinkers, opening it up to a larger series allowed that to grow a bit more. Same! It felt huge, and threat felt real because of it - even though you knew the good guys had to win in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerimar Nyliram Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I also enjoyed New Jedi Order. I can understand why many fans felt jaded because it wasn't the usual Jedi vs. Sith, but I loved the change of pace. It was something bold and new.I want to take this time to say a heartfelt "Thank you" to everyone who expressed their understanding toward those of us who have invested so much time and energy in the EU. We may not be quite on the same page, and we may butt heads sometimes, but I am glad that we are able to understand one another. Ultimately, Star Wars is one big playground with lots of things to do and see, and you are free to pick an choose as you wish. My choice is the universe that is larger than the movies which I have come to know and love for decades, while yours may be different. In the end, our fandom is valid either way. You are just as big a fan as I am. I will, however, get back to Tank's point about the original medium (film) being the purest embodiment of the Star Wars franchise: if that's the case then the books are it because the novelization of Star Wars came out before the film did. But I suppose you could make the case that the book was based on the screenplay, which was intended to become a film from the start. Either way, we're all just nerds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I am admittedly a book snob. I love my comic books, and I love genre movies, and I love old pulps-- but as a reader I find most contemporary genre books really subpar. Literature has the ability to do so much with language and allegory that stories told simply turn me off. Every medium should make best use of its tools. Books can do what movies cannot and vice versa. Star Wars was invented to be a visual thing. Taking it out of that medium automatically makes it less to me. The very nature of Star Wars narrative is contrary to what literature should be... So it just never works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Some stories don't translate well. Star Wars is all about the visuals. Lucas isn't a great director of actors, but he's good at telling stories with visuals (it is worth it to try watching the films without the audio). Conversely, Dune is all about the thoughts and motivations of the characters. It's a great novel that is incredibly difficult to translate to the screen. Star Wars has an easier time translating to the written word than Dune does of jumping to cinema or television, but both stories lose their best features when translated from one medium to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Some Kylo Ren dialogue has been put online. I think it's from one of those masks that like plays dialogue. I'm not going to list it all but there are a couple lines that stick out "Is it true...you are just a scavenger?" Obviously talking to Rey, but I think you can draw from this that Ren can sense The Force in her and is surprised that she is a scavenger and not a Jedi. "You know you can't, I'm immune to the light" This seems like someone is trying to convince him to turn good. Ren obviously has no intention of doing so. Being that I believe Ren is the son of Han and Leia I think this could be Han making a last desperate attempt to get his son back. That's obviously all just spec, other than the fact that he's obviously talking to Rey when he asks about her being a scavenger. The other lines that are out there are kinda generic bad guy stuff, but I thought these 2 were cool. That "immune to the light" line is pretty bad ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 What are the other lines, and where did you find them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 MakingStarWars.com has them, they are from a toy mask. Rens lines "I feel it too" "You know what I've come for" "Together we will destroy the Resistance and the last Jedi" "Don't fight it, you know you can't" "I've been waiting for this for a long time" "Don't be afraid" "That weapon is mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Wow - another site for me to track. Interesting lines - a lot of information there. I can almost imagine the whole plot from those tidbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well... "The Last Jedi" certainly says A LOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowDog Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Yeah it does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'm starting to think the idea of Luke going into hiding to bide his time (and possibly train more Jedi) and then sending the saber out somehow containing his location is gaining merit. It makes more sense than The First Order wanting it so badly just for like sentimental reasons. Basically Luke goes into hiding and says when the time is right he will send out the saber with his location. Somehow (perhaps by a spy?) The First Order finds out about this and they want the saber s they can find and kill Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 It's awesome to finally have some real information from the movie. I do not like the references to "the light", though. In the OT it was always "the force" (by definition good) and "the dark side (of the force)". The change in terminology doesn't sit well with me for some reason - not quite sure why. EDIT - figured out why. The force was presented in the OT as a positive thing that can be twisted for use by evil. Now it's presented as neutral that can be used by good or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durty D Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Actually talking about dark and light is this particular baddie's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odine Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well... "The Last Jedi" certainly says A LOT!I hear you, but.. the plural of Jedi is Jedi, right? So he could be referring to a group there, not just Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 It's awesome to finally have some real information from the movie. I do not like the references to "the light", though. In the OT it was always "the force" (by definition good) and "the dark side (of the force)". The change in terminology doesn't sit well with me for some reason - not quite sure why. EDIT - figured out why. The force was presented in the OT as a positive thing that can be twisted for use by evil. Now it's presented as neutral that can be used by good or evil. If something like this bothers you, I just don't think you will ever like one of these movies. That is such a minor, unimportant thing. You are taking these movies way too seriously. They are movies with a giant bigfoot as the first mate on a ship and a green puppet as the wisest creature in the Galaxy. Shouldn't be taken this seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well, OK then. Thanks for the advice. I'll avoid them like the plague now. That'll suit my wife just fine. She despises the PT so much that she says she has no interest in watching the new films. I used to tell her she'd have to go with me anyway, but clearly I'm not in the intended audience for the movie. Whew! What a relief - and a money-saver, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'm not saying to not watch the movie. I'm just saying if you let insignificant things like that bother you I doubt you will like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Actually I read the synopsis that's floating around out there and am confident I'll like the film. I was just sharing a passing thought. Have I been coming off as negative lately? I do that sometimes. I'm a grump in real life, too. Sometimes it seeps in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 I hope you like it. Not negative, just like maybe put yourself into a small box in terms of what you like and don't like as it pertains to Star Wars that it could be very hard for any movie to end up inside that box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Hm, that sounds more like Zerimar than pavonis to me! I actually thought that was a good point. It's not one I'll think about during the movie, but upon subsequent viewings and potential EU reading and stuff I can see that point expanded on. Not that I like my Star Wars too philosophical, but that's an interesting perspective. Good point about "the last Jedi," both from Driver and Odine. I'm open to the "lightsaber as a message" idea, because it's so much better than it just randomly floating through space somehow. We've beaten that point to death, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Here is the thing, every character has his own POV. Someone may have pointed that out before. A Jedi may feel that The Force is inherently good and that the dark side is just a perversion of it. But someone using the Dark Side wouldn't think that. Always remember bad guys don't think they are bad. Kylo would think that any Jedi who doesn't use the Dark Side is simply weak and afraid of using it. When he says he is immune to the light he is probably saying he is immune to that weakness. Like I said, bad guys don't think they are bad. They wouldn't look at the dark side as a perversion. They'd look at it more as fully using the power of the Force. That's how I'd take it, the context in the movie could completely change that always but for now I think thats probably the right way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavonis Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The new information is heartening for me. I've been trying to spoil myself rotten for months now, and Abrams' secrecy fetish made that more difficult. I wonder how much the EU has influenced the writers. "Light side" was really only a term I ran into in the novels. Now it's appearing in a film. Whether it is intended to be a particular point-of-view of one character or whether the last 20+ years of EU material has fundamentally changed the way the force is treated in-story remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Choc Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 It's just semantics. Most people when they hear there is a dark side, in their heads they will think the opposite of that is the light side. Luke says in ROTJ that he wants to turn his father back to the good side. Same exact thing, just a different word. Light means good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucas1138 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Kylo speculation: Maybe he's Luke's son. His fascination with Darth Vader as well as "that weapon is mine" (I'm assuming he says to Finn wielding Luke's lightsaber), lead me there. He could feel like the saber is his "birthright" since it passed from Anakin to Luke. If Kylo went bad, that could have sent Luke into hermit mode. I know we've talked a lot about this in here so apologies if I'm commandeering someone else's idea. I'm not disagreeing with Choc's speculation that he's Han's son, just another way to look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driver Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Well... "The Last Jedi" certainly says A LOT!I hear you, but.. the plural of Jedi is Jedi, right? So he could be referring to a group there, not just Luke. Technically. But every time they were mentioned as a group in the films it was "THE Jedi." "The last of the Jedi" vs "The last Jedi." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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