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And now time for the Democrats and their debate!


98 replies to this topic

#26
Ms. Spam

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It bothers me that they seemed kind of genial and nice. No one called Hillary on this thing Tami is talking about beyond maybe Sanders.



#27
Pong Messiah

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Yeah. Webb couldn't even help but smile as he talked about killing that commie.



#28
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DAMNIT. My best hope for the Democrats just opted out. Biden doesn't want to run. I can't say I blame him. I am tempted to start a "viable third party candidate" thread.



#29
Brando

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Do we do joke threads in the Lyceum?

#30
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I'm serious. I need Pong to provide me with some serious third party candidates I can potentially vote for because I cannot vote for the Hillary side and all the GOP candidates are dumb. Hell, Jeb was asked about what MARVEL character he likes best and he gushed about how hot Supergirl was.



#31
Brando

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I'm just poking at the idea of a viable third party candidate.

If you mean someone you can vote for... well, probably still not there. Third parties tend to be even more extremist than the real parties.

#32
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That's a political shift that HAS to be coming, right? Third party candidates who are strictly moderate? Surely it's gotta be nearing impossible to find more extreme than the left and right currently are. 



#33
Brando

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We have very little to the left in US politics, other than maybe social issues, but little to no real economic left.

 

And there's still a lot of room to go to the right.

 

Political parties reflect how people vote.  The people want this.



#34
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Third party of moderates won't happen.  It seems to me that people in this country only vote when they are fired up about something, which also usually means either voting either extreme left or extreme right.  



#35
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Bernie'd be okay but god I'd worry he's too old. Hillary's gotten through some more Benghazi GOP hazing again today.



#36
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Bernie'd be okay

Okay at what?

 

Republicans control both houses of Congress. There are more vulnerable Republican Senators than Democrats in 2016, but do you really see any sweeping changes here?

Despite Facebook rainbows and conservative complaints over a few "traitorous" rulings, the Supreme Court ain't progressive, and Ginsburg (who isn't exactly the picture of health) is the oldest.

There are 31 Republican Governors to 18 Democrats.

There are 30 states legislatures where Republicans control both chambers compared to 11 for Democrats.

 

Hostile territory, to be sure. Oh, and don't forget that he's pretty far to the left of many Democrats, too. The stereotypical progressive scarecrow people beat up on to make fun of Democrats ("I married this many gays today, I took away this many guns from law-abiding citizens today, I took this much money away from hard working Americans and gave it to minorities and illegal immogrants today!") is extremely uncommon outside of larger population centers. And even in notorious prog Dem stomping grounds, their presence is overstated.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'd tune into the Bernie show every day for the fireworks (and the 24/7 cable channels -- can you even imagine Fox News against the backdrop of a Sanders presidency?), but I really can't see him accomplishing a whole lot.



#37
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I don't think he'll make it out of the primaries so if I am going to throw away a vote for the first time it will be on a third party candidate I can somewhat like. Another words, you are correct, good sir.

#38
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I have just realized that I have become so cynical, I really don't care who is elected president this time around.  It's probably going to be Clinton anyway, now that the Bengazi and email hearings are over.  It was a dog and pony show, anyway.  The GOP choices are so weak, and they don't even really have much of a chance against Clinton. Even if they did, and as much as I can't stand Hillary, I have to admit she will be a better president than any of what the GOP has to offer at the moment.  


  • Pong Messiah +1 this

#39
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Yeah, I feel the same way (though I'm not as sure of Clinton's chances as you). As mentioned before, the only guy I had any interest in was Webb, but even if he weren't a crappy speaker/debater, his refusal to grovel before the god of identity politics and the "guns r scary make them go away!" crowd makes him toxic for a Democratic primary, while his too pro-gay/worker/abortion stances make him toxic on the GOP side. A snowball woulda had a better chance in Hades.

 

The only scenario in which I'd feel motivated to vote this time around is if Cruz somehow ends up with the GOP nomination, so I could vote against him -- not that it would make a difference in my state, ofc.



#40
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OMG! If Cruz does get the nomination - I don't even not even. I wish Julian Castro or his twin would run for president.



#41
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Yeah, I feel the same way (though I'm not as sure of Clinton's chances as you). As mentioned before, the only guy I had any interest in was Webb, but even if he weren't a crappy speaker/debater, his refusal to grovel before the god of identity politics and the "guns r scary make them go away!" crowd makes him toxic for a Democratic primary, while his too pro-gay/worker/abortion stances make him toxic on the GOP side. A snowball woulda had a better chance in Hades.

 

The only scenario in which I'd feel motivated to vote this time around is if Cruz somehow ends up with the GOP nomination, so I could vote against him -- not that it would make a difference in my state, ofc.

Yeah, my state is solidly a red state (a big red weenie?), so I totally get what you mean about not mattering how you vote.  

 

But I am not sure why anyone isn't sure at this point, why it's not a done deal.  OK I know the general election race is a ways off, but do the math.  On the Dem side, no one is even touching Clinton.  Unless she actually murders someone on national TV, she's a lock. And even then there are some rabid acolyte supporters that would give her a pass for that, too.    Seriously though, she's been a lock really since conceding to Obama in 2008, as far as the Dem nomination goes.  Bengazi and the email scandal was pretty much the only thing in her way. Luckily she had about a year to practice what she would say to senate subcommittees, to get past it all. Sanders is basically the candidate meant to make Hillary appealing to the mainstream dem voter, and the undecideds.  Biden, the only other one the dems could put up, was basically Plan B (oddly breaking with tradition of a VP running after a fairly successful 8 year run), in case the scandals did stick to Clinton, but since they didn't, he's out.  Doing the math, Hillary is basically the only outcome as the Dem nominee, save for a severe scandal.

 

As for the GOP, they literally have nothing.  Trump?  Please.  If he is actually serious, and this isn't all just shtick to stroke his ego,  and he is actually serious,  then he is as loony as Ross Perot.   Ted Crazy?  Sh*t, the man isn't even a natural born citizen, despite his loophole acrobatic double talk. That, and he is just alternate dimension level insane.  The rest: no matter how you stack it, none of them are able to defeat Hillary. THis is not me being a shill for her, because so help me, I can't stand Hillary Clinton.  But as I see it,  it really is inevitable she will be elected. 

 

Now, how effective a president she will be, and how she will be able to play ball with Congress, is another matter.



#42
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Unless she actually murders someone on national TV, she's a lock.

I don't think it would have to be that serious, but aside from the last debate performance (which was great, albeit in front of a very supportive audience), she's not an amazing campaigner or debator, and has really high negatives (a 53% unfavorable in September).

 

Not terribly meaningful this far out, but it is telling that both Bush (+1.6) and Carson (+4.8) are beating her in national polling right now. WTF is that? I mean, the Bush name is toxic, and nobody knows who Carson is outside of that made-for-cable Cuba Gooding Jr. movie. Jesus!

 

:eek:



#43
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Well, I suppose it is a matter of opinion there, but don't confuse what I am saying with people being in love with Hillary Clinton.  I am saying this is all relative to who is running against her.  She IS polarizing for sure.  But then again so was Obama and Bush, and even her husband.  All of whom were 2-termers.  If there were someone that was actually charismatic, likable, and competent (or gave the appearance thereof) running in either the primary or general elections, she would be in trouble.  That's basically how she lost in 2008 to Obama. But the thing is, there isn't this time around, which is why it is, IMHO, pretty much a lock for Clinton. 

 

While some people may be leaning  Sanders right now in the polls, when it gets to the point where it will actually count, the gap will widen.   The dems supporting Sanders right now are doing so because they feel Clinton isn't progressive enough, or just a general protest against her because he is really the only other alternative at the moment (especially since Biden's not running now). But, if (really when) Clinton has the nomination and runs in the general, those same people rooting for Sanders now will support Clinton.  Unlike in 2012 where on the GOP side, conservatives stayed home rather than vote for Mitt Romney because he wasn't  "conservative enough" and they wanted to "teach the GOP a lesson" ( I am still trying to figure out that Bizzaro logic, but hey), on the Dem side, leftists will will show up to, if nothing else, vote against whomever the evil republican is.  You just won't see dems staying home in droves to teach the DNC a lesson, because the people who think Clinton isn't "liberal enough" are scared to death to see a republican take office. 



#44
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Based on the emails and Benghazi reaction by a GOP Congress she'd never get anything accomplished. With so many red states she'd be more vilified than Obama currently is. The Democratic party has its own ills which frustrates me to no end. While they don't believe in silly things concerning evolution or aborting fetuses they do have this curious head in sand reaction to things.



#45
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The last time we had a GOP controlled Congress and a republican president, it didn't work out so hot, either, Spam.



#46
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The last time we had a president and a congress it didn't work very well. But I'm not sure what would work better.

#47
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tonight! more milktoast!



#48
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I accidentally posted in the wrong thread but Hillary is in her comfort zone.

#49
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Mooslim!

#50
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Moar tonight? You watchin'? O'Malley is getting Union socialism in early. Hillary can't get out Martin Luther King Jr while Bernie works old Jewish man schtick.



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