Exodus

This all just has me wondering more and more about who the Knights of Ren actually are, and what they're defining purpose is.

I had a thought that they were to powerful Siths, or maybe a single powerful Sith or dark side user (Snoke), what Ozymandias was at one point to Apocalypse in the X-Men comics - caretakers, while their master(s) are in some weakened or dormant state or condition. This would make them responsible for many tasks, like clearing the way for their masters eventual return to prominence, existence or power; perhaps also cataloging pertinent historical events that have taken place while those whom they serve have been out of the loop. Maybe the Knights of Ren simply exist to pave the way for Snoke as he, vulnerable and weak as we see him now, rebuilds his power base through such things as the First Order and the elimination of the resistance and the final Jedi, Luke.

If the rest of the Knights of Ren are fellow Jedi defectors, where are their lightsabers?

So there would be other knights remaining if Snoke crushed Kylo Ren, but I wonder how they compare to him in terms of the force, combat, etc.

Sure - but it still leaves the question of whether he has somebody else in mind for said heavy lifting, or if he has a goal to reach which will eliminate the need for heavy lifting. If he's something other than a Sith, maybe he does't need an apprentice once he achieves his goals.

Could help fill a few holes.

To contain those words in conjunction in a post about a character played by Natalie Portman, you almost lost me here.

But then this guy said...

Me personally, I like the symmetry that goes along with Rey being Luke's daughter and granddaughter to Vader:

 

-Rey is the daughter of Vader's son. Kylo is the son of Vader's daughter.

-Rey represents Anakin, the lightside, prodigal force champion who feels the pull of the dark (ep8?). Kylo represents Vader, the darkside, failed hero who feels the pull of the light.

You just nailed the whole damn thing. This post perfectly explains Rey and Kylo Ren.

What does Snoke want? And why would he crush Kylo Ren once he has it?

As we know dark side users in the movies we've seen so far, even if it's only the Sith, they never work alone. Does this mean Snoke would be willing to work without somebody like Kylo Ren beneath him once he gets what he wants? That would depend on exactly what he's after.

What could it be?

1) Nothing. Han was making a desperate pitch to sell his son on the idea that he needed to put a stop to what he was doing, so he pulled an Obi-Wan and told it to him from a certain point of view. However there is no evidence that Han is making **** up, so it's easier to assume that there is some truth to what he tells his son.

2) Full strength. As we see him in Episode VII, he looks horrible. Weak, frail, and as the actor who portrays him puts it, vulnerable. Kylo Ren is the closest Snoke can come to getting **** done that he needs to get done by the means a dark side user would use (mind probing, lightsaber impaling, etc). Once he recovers to a certain point, maybe he won't need Kylo Ren (or anyone beneath him with force abilities) anymore. So maybe all Snoke wants is time to get to full strength from whatever left him looking like a burn victim with head scars that rival Anakin's.

3) The elimination of the Jedi and the resistance. Once all exterior threats have been neutralized, Snoke turns to the closest thing he has left to a threat - Kylo Ren, the only one left at that point who would be powerful enough to stop Snoke if he ever turned against him.

4) Rey, which is the most interesting option. If what you say about this girl is true, bring her to me. Yes Kylo Ren, bring her to him - so that he can replace you with her, because she's powerful as hell. Maybe that's why Snoke wants her. Maybe that explains Kylo Ren's interest in her all along, and his suggestion to her about training her. Maybe that's why she appears to be so quick to pick up on things. Maybe that's why she was tucked away someplace by herself. She's obviously central to the story, but maybe she's an even bigger deal than they've let on yet. Maybe as powerful as Anakin, or more. So if that's what (or who) Snoke wants, then he'd crush Kylo Ren or have her crush him once he has her.

Any other ideas?

They scraped together what was left of Anakin's burnt corpse and reanimated it with the ancient essence of Snoke. This has no bearing on Anakin because he has already passed on into the force.

I'm sure back in 1999, George Lucas would have told you that Darth Sidious was an entirely new character too.

Hell, maybe he did.

I think he meant that Plageuis was able to cheat death by bringing back those who were already dead, but he couldn't resurrect himself.

I want to say that Palpatine shouldn't have said this unless it had been tested and confirmed as something Plagueis could do.

So who did he bring back, then? Perhaps we learn that it was Snoke?

Imagine a cut scene similar to Rey's vision in the next movie, or Episode IX, where they show McDiarmid and a CGI Muun Plagueis perfecting the art of cheating death by bringing back the ancient Snoke from some state of near-deceased animation. Or entirely back from the dead.

Congrats, my friend. Hell of a season for us both. A fun season overall.

And for once, the trophy isn't sitting aimlessly in my fridge...so you should get it in short order.

"Ironic....he could save others from death, but not himself."

"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved..."

So...which is it, Palpatine?

Did Plagueis know how to do it, but never succeed?

Is the one who achieved it not Plagueis, but somebody else who preceded him? Like...way preceded him? Is Snoke the one who has achieved it?

He sure as fuck looks like it. His mug looks worse than Deadpool's.

My only disappointment was her voice. I don't mean to sound and like an asshole, but her voice sounded terrible.

That could just as easily be an echo of BIG BAD GUY theme, not specifically the same character

True, but of all the things Ren could have said about Snoke...he chose to call him wise.

If nothing else, it's fun to watch people who are super erect over this theory get excited about it. I'm not banking on it myself, but I'll be the first to admit that I'd find the connectivity to be kind of cool.

https://youtu.be/Kgirxblkje8

Fast forward to 2:40 for the Snoke track.

Not just similar, but they're talking about Plagueis while this music is playing in ROTS. Does that stack the deck a little bit? If you have an open mind, maybe.

I saw somewhere that the music used for Snoke on the soundtrack for TFA was the same music used in ROTS when Palp told Anakin the Plagious story.

Similar, but not exact. Not sure if similar is enough. It is worthy of note, I'll say that much.

He's still skinny.

As long as Casey Hudson doesn't lock himself in a broom closet to meet a contrived deadline from EA with a rushed and illogical ending, I think we're good.

- No cliché romances. Don't force that shit

- Do not kill Luke or Chewy. Furthermore, don't reintroduce Lando just to kill him off

- Despite all the complaining about mirroring other stuff, don't go another entire movie without revisiting at least one established location from either the OT or PT - Coruscant would make sense, and Bespin would if they reintroduce Lando or try to explain how Maz got Anakin's lightsaber. I don't mean flashbacks either. I mean actually going there and being there.

I was generally pleased, so that's about all I've got.

Well they knocked that shit out of the park...

Still interesting to me that Claire Temple/Rosario Dawson was going to be Night Nurse, and now it may possibly be Rachel McAdams in this movie. Sure is taking a long time to get more news or confirmation as to what role she's actually playing.

Last I heard was a couple of months ago, and was another odd bit: http://screenrant.com/doctor-strange-rachel-mcadams-night-nurse/

Yay my turn

Save Rey's greater feat for episode VIII? How do we know at this point they didn't? We can't say they haven't until we see episode VIII, sorry.

And how did Rey best, as Snoke directly referred to him, a yet-to-be completely trained Kylo Ren? Man, I don't know. Inconceivable that a guy who isn't fully trained just got beaten, after being hit with a bowcaster?

Maybe we'll see Luke training Rey, alongside Snoke training Ben, and then we get round two - and maybe she gets her ass handed to her. Maybe we conclude the next movie much like Empire, with lots of questions as to how the good guys are going to prevail because a lot of bad things may have just happened. Kylo Ren bests Rey. Luke's training to her is upstaged by Snokes training of Kylo Ren.

Then maybe we can bitch about how episode VIII copied episode V, without pointing out the obvious that the middle movie plays this role naturally...IE Anakin losing an arm, Dooku escaping, the clone army being introduced, Palpatine being chancellor, and Jimmy Smits sad face.

Luke: How did you find this?

Maz: An old friend-- worked sanitation in the lowest levels of Cloud City.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/bb/Willrow-hood.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080518233740]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/b/bb/Willrow-hood.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080518233740

It's happening...

 

image.jpeg

I'm not ruling it out.

Again, any explanation provided by the EU to shoot this theory down doesn't hold up.

Yup, Anakin was a creation of the force...and somewhere down the line, she's an offspring of a creation of the force. Most likely.

Can the benefits of being said creation diminish or strengthen from one generation to another? Could anyone down the line from Anakin be stronger than he was?

Is she?

 

This got me thinking a little about TFA. TFA doesn't really have a defining moment does it. You could argue about Han's Death or the Luke Reveal. But they don't have a great impact like the others. What do you think??

Rey calling the saber to her hand has gotten huge applause every time. It's definitely my favorite moment of the film.

 

It's my favorite moment. That Episode IV score doesn't hurt either...

Stay.

In the EU, Ben Solo wasn't Kylo Ren.

So if an EU novel says Plagueis was a Muun who was killed by his apprentice, I'd say...and?