Poe Dameron

Weekend estimates are in. $153.5 million Fri-Sun. $544.6 million total.

If these numbers hold, this is about 12% below the predicted totals. While not terrible in any sense, it is closer to the standard box office drops. So the film is showing the first signs that it will not defy gravity. Still, a drop of only 38% (20% if you take away the Thursday screenings that were included in the Friday total) for a blockbuster is very strong and this was good enough for the 10th biggest weekend ever and smashed the old 2nd weekend record by 44%.

I'll have to revise my prediction of passing $700 million and Avatar by a few days each.

The Force Awakens is now the 5th biggest movie of all-time on the Domestic chart, having passed The Phantom Menace and A New Hope as the largest earner of the series.

Ofcourse Rey is the protagonist.

There's not really a clear central protagonist in The Force Awakens. Han and Finn do much more to drive the larger conflict along. In fact, Rey adds very little. You could completely cut her out of the movie and it really wouldn't effect the story structure that much.

Rey was just sort of there. Her main contribution being that she got Finn and BB-8 off of Jakku. After that, she might as well have not been there. In fact, for key portions of the movie, she wasn't. She didn't get BB-8 back to the Resistance. She had absolutely nothing to do with the destruction of Starkiller Base. She was not the key POV character for Han's death. Her role in the climax was basically saving herself.

The closest comparison would be The Phantom Menace which doesn't have a clear central protagonist either. Rey is similar to Anakin. Except she's further removed from the central plot. Anakin at least had a critical role in being the solution to the 2nd Act's major problem of the ship's broken hyperdrive and, of course, he destroyed the Trade Federation's control ship in the climax.

I'm sure Rey will grow into being the protagonist for the trilogy. But, for this movie, if you're using the definition of a main character who brings forth and resolve the story's conflict(s), she's really not.

Plus ... for the 100th time ... that WAS explained. A friend who worked sanitation found it. What are people not getting about that?

I'm beginning to think that sanitation labor will be a major theme of this trilogy.

Leia isn't the protagonist.

Neither is Rey if you want to get technical.

Female protagonist finally done right is how you can rank TFA above ANH. She said it herself and I respect that.

Leia wasn't done right?

Besides, announcing a preference is one thing. I'd rather read and watch a woman as the protagonist myself. But doesn't liking an inferior product simply because it's got a girl in it trip over between taste and outright sexism?

Maybe if this was some sort of revolutionary role, I'd see the point, but we've had great female action heroines around for decades. In fact, Rey will never hold a candle to Leia's legacy in enlarging women's roles in action films and serving as a forerunner to Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, and the like.

Not speaking to anyone specifically on this, but I honestly can't see how anyone could put The Force Awakens over A New Hope. I just watched it this afternoon again with my niece after her parents told her that she needed to at least watch the first movie before they would take her to see the new one.

Man, in comparison with The Force Awakens, which emulates so many of A New Hope's ideas and structure, it's not even close. Sometimes I forget how perfect some aspects of A New Hope really were. Sure there are some hiccups, but if I were teaching a class on how to make a movie, there are few that I can think of that would provide as many clear examples of what to do it right. It seems that every section where I thought The Force Awakens struggled, A New Hope perfected with astonishing ease. Rampant imagination, conflicts that add to both the narrative and to the characters' growth and story, a legendary climax, each plot point given its own time and weight, yet somehow not slowing down the movie, with the exception of C-3PO (oddly written thanks to Anthony Daniels essentially abandoning the original slick-talking character Lucas created on the set), all characters near perfect in portraying their intend.

I know these lists are subjective and there are different things that I like about different movies. On my personal list, The Phantom Menace, could alternate from as high as the 3rd best movie to as low as the 6th based on my mood and what aspects appeal to me more on that day. But A New Hope and The Force Awakens are just so similar by design that I don't understand how the flawed copy which doesn't seem to understand what went right in its predecessor can rise above the original in people's eyes.

Avatar benefited from being the first to truly cash in on the 3-D gimmick. Which makes it even less respectable in my eyes since I HATE 3-D and Avatar's success led to the direct creation of a thousand effects aimed directly at looking cool in 3-D. Which doesn't impress me at all since I refuse to watch a movie with those stupid glasses on my head.

As far as being a movie goes, I think its actual merits were almost immediately forgotten. It's rather remarkable how shallowly Avatar impacted the popular culture given its status as the leader in domestic box office. This is the biggest movie of all-time, but try and remember the last time you saw anyone wearing a t-shirt about it even in an ironic sense. It rarely gets mentioned for good or ill around the internet. When's the last time you heard a joke that referenced the movie?

Compared to genuine culturally iconic franchises like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Godfather, Indiana Jones, Rocky, Jaws, E.T., Back to the Future, Star Trek, Ghostbusters, Titanic, Terminator, Jurassic Park, Die Hard, Alien, any number of Disney or Pixar animated films, any number of comic book movies, Shrek, Transformers, Ninja Turtles, Hunger Games, Forrest Gump, James Bond, Captain Jack of Pirates of the Caribbean, crap I can go on all night. Avatar can't hold a candle to the mindshare that any of these franchises achieved among the American public. That all these movies continue to contribute to our shared popular culture.

Avatar's success, in the end, can't even be credited to it striking a chord. It just happened to hit a marketing gimmick whose time had come. And since it was the first blockbuster particularly created to take advantage of that gimmick, it was rewarded handsomely.

Anyway, it really isn't a matter of if, but when and by how much The Force Awakens will pass Avatar. The Force Awakens can cool down significantly and start dropping as quickly as the average blockbuster and it would still easily pass Avatar in a matter of weeks.

Update: $49.3 million on Friday. $440.4 million total.

Slightly below the $53 million prediction. The Force Awakens becomes the fastest movie to $400 million in only 8 days (previous record 10). The mildly disappointing number (still a non-opening weekend Friday record by almost $18 million) puts in doubt the potential to reach $500 million in 9 days (previous record 17 days), but will certainly get there before noon Sunday and will likely end up around $550 million at the end of the weekend.

Looking forward, I would estimate that The Force Awakens passes $700 million on January 3 after 17 days in theaters. And passes Avatar's $760 million for #1 on the domestic list on January 10 after only 24 days in theaters.

Estimates above $900 million for its total run are now quite defensible. I plugged in week-to-week totals that modestly underperformed Fellowship of the Ring's drops and came away with a number above $940 million. And if the totals within range of the psychological barrier of $1 billion, look for Disney to re-issue the movie shortly before the DVD drop in order to get it over the hump.

It's pretty gratuitous on that channel. I could take a few contributors being haters, but I can't think of any semi-regular contributor on that channel that will even come out with a weak "It wasn't that bad" or "There were some parts I liked" when the hate train gets rolling. They all just get in together on the joke and participate in the ritualistic two minutes of hate until the subject changes.

And since Star Wars comes up pretty often, and I rather enjoyed the Prequels, I started not wanting to watch them.

Not sure how serious Captain Bleh was, but, for what it's worth, I used to be a regular viewer of Screen Junkies (ironically stopping due to gratuitous Prequel bashing) and they make it a point to keep keeping women in their rotation. Just none showed up this week.

Didn't anybody fully read the text? It was an idea pitched by concept artists. The producers, writers and director all said NOPE.

Half the article is speculation that Christensen will be in Episode VIII and how the concept art fits that idea. At no time does the story debunk the notion.

Update: $27.6 million on Thursday. Total: $391.1 million. Exactly where the estimates had it performing.

Just found out this morning that I went to high school with Oscar Issac. Same year and everything. Wonder if we took any classes together.

Here's the deal about Anakin's ghost appearing:

Before seeing the movie, I couldn't imagine a reason why they would do such a thing. However, The Force Awakens gives us a very good excuse since Kylo Ren is the mother of all Darth Vader fanboys. Dude more or less has a shrine to the man that he prays to.

With that dynamic set up, having Anakin's ghost appear before Kylo Ren or alternatively a false vision sent to him by Snoke, makes plenty of sense as a matter of story. The real barrier to this happening isn't story justification, it's fan reaction and the "keep Christensen out of the new movies" Prequel hate.

Personally, I'm not sure if they should do it or not. But at some point, I do think they need to reconcile the Prequels into the new set of movies. I can understand why they wanted to stay away from them in the first movie, but they are a part of the series, and if the audience feels good about the new movies, using the Prequels to add flavor to the new series will be accepted. If they find that Christensen could add something to Episode VIII or particularly Episode IX, then I say go for it.

That said, I don't like the idea of Christensen appearing in the sequel trilogy as a force ghost. First, I did not like the ROTJ edit that spliced him into the end.

Think that's somewhat of a separate issue. To me, it would have made sense if they went all out and replaced Sebastian Shaw completely.

Let's be honest, bringing in Sebastion Shaw who was in his late-70s (almost 10 years older than Alec Guinness!) to play Anakin in Return of the Jedi was always a weird continuity error. It made some sense thematically that Vader would be this shriveled up old man. But even when I was a kid it always rankled me that this was supposed to be Luke's father. That 25 or 30 years earlier he'd still been a young Jedi and left Ben Kenobi's tutelage "but the learner".

But, I suspect even Lucas wasn't willing to tamper with a scene that worked so well and is one of the most memorable scenes of the series. If Lucas weren't willing to go to that length, then he shouldn't have swapped out the two actors for the Force ghost and didn't even bother to age Christensen through makeup. It was a half measure, and it didn't make anyone happy.

Yeah - the only characters who should show up in all the trilogies are R2 & 3PO.

Don't forget Chewbacca.

When I heard he was going to play Anakin, I remember thinking he should've been played by Paul Walker, but he might be okay I suppose.

If that's true, you've got one heck of an eye for talent. Outside of the Meet the Deedles (4% on Rotten Tomatoes), Paul Walker had only gotten supporting roles in a few movies prior to Christensen being cast in 2000.

This prick wouldn't last 5 minutes in an actual military, nevermond leading one like a young Darth Vader would have.

Christensen as a physical presence never bothered me. I think he cut a pretty good Jedi warrior, particularly in Revenge of the Sith. Better than Ewan McGreggor.

Well the thing Star Wars has going for it more than most other franchises is that Star Wars fans go to see it multiple times. I'm calling it now: TFA will top $1Billion domestic.

While not completely crazy talk, that's still a long shot. After next week the holidays will be over and kids will be going back to school. It will probably see a massive drop in its week-to-week totals starting January 4. In order to reach $1 billion, it would take exceptionally strong legs. Maybe not at the level of Titanic, which was just box office freak, but it would have to be somewhere between the drops seen by Avatar and the Lord of the Rings movies to get there. Not impossible, but not likely. The positive outlook is that this is the right time of year, traditionally, for finding movies like that.

Slight uptick Wednesday to $38 million. Current total is $363.5 million.

On Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, The Force Awakened earned $115.5 million. That beats the previous Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday record of $69.6 million from Jurassic World by 66%. If those days were to comprise a weekend, that total would be good enough for 24th all-time. Up there with blockbusters like Man of Steel, Minions, Spider-Man, and Pirate of the Caribbean: At World's End.

Expect the Thursday numbers to dip a bit as Christmas Eve traditionally sees a drop in attendance at theaters.

Box Office Mojo's weekend prediction is $178.5 million ($565 million total). If it performs to this level, that would put it only $195 million behind Avatar and on pace to pass it New Year's weekend. The current 2nd weekend record is Jurassic World's $106.6 million ($402 million total). If Box Office Mojo's prediction is reached, that would be the 5th largest weekend of all-time. Behind only Jurassic World, The Avengers, Avengers: Age of Ultron, and the mark The Force Awakens itself set last weekend.

If Box Office Mojo's prediction comes true and you apply a simple 50% weekly drop to predict the upcoming weeks, the total domestic box office comes out to be $880 million.

Leia to embrace her Force heritage

I thought about putting that in there. But then I asked myself if I wanted to see Carrie Fisher in an action sequence, and I started having flashbacks to Karen Allen in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. A woman in her 50s can carry a credible action sequence (see Ming-Na Wen pretty much any week on Agents of SHIELD), but Carrie Fisher just not going to join that club, nor do I suspect that she's particularly interested.

We actually did see Leia use the Force again in this movie. Like in Return of the Jedi where she knew Luke was safe, she felt Han pass. I'd be cool if she displayed some of the soft Force powers like manipulation and such, but no lightsaber action for her. She fit right into her role as the M of the group.

Aotc: I'm taking him now.

Really? Like a second later Anakin took Force Lightening to the face and was out of the fight for about 10 minutes.

For Attack of the Clones I'd go with this:

Dealer: Wanna buy some death sticks?

Obi-Wan: You don't want to sell me death sticks.

Dealer: I don't want to sell you death sticks.

Obi-Wan: You want to go home and rethink your life.

Dealer: I want to go home and rethink my life.

And then Obi-Wan slices off a sucker's arm. Because that's the end of every story that begins with "Obi-Wan and young Skywalker walked into a bar".

I had never heard of Max Landis or Mary Sue until reading this thread.

It always surprises me how many people don't know what a Mary Sue is.

A bit more from Max Landis on Screen Junkies.

I've got to at least say that it's a relief that he and other people are noticing the same flaws I did. Almost word for word in some cases. Like they mentioned, I figured that that any dissenting opinion on this one would be steamrolled and I'd be the famous "that guy" for not being totally on board.

 

Anakin and Rey mirror each other almost every way except age.

 

...

 

What.

 

Definitely. Rey is a combination of Luke Skywalker and Jake Lloyd's Anakin Skywalker. Her journey is closer to Luke, but her character and abilities are closer to young Anakin. Parallels along those lines can be found in her native ability with machines and her having difficulty letting go of her parents. Also, her first shot flying the Millennium Falcon is vaguely reminiscent of Anakin fighting in the starfighter in the Battle of Naboo.

Kylo Ren is based off of Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker.

What Jedi ****? Racing pods? Fixing things?

Anakin was also able to read Mace Windu's mind before his training started. Recall the scene where the Jedi Council tests him and Sam Jackson is holding the 1999 version of an I-Pad on a stick. That's reasonably high level.

The difference is that Anakin's development in the Force didn't start when the Qui-Gon showed up. Maybe he didn't have formal training, but he'd been touching the Force for a long time before the movie started. He didn't just get whisked along on an adventure and a couple days later getting the hang of it.

Anakin's early Force abilities also fit the development because they are presented as an intuitive skills. Rey's native ability with machines fits that same mold, and it can be argued that her reflexive turning back of Kylo Ren's mind probe would fall under that category as well (though that is stretching things). However, using Force manipulation and suddenly being able to best Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel does not fit.

If they'd stopped at her ability to turn back the mind probe, then there would be no problem. That would have been a sufficient example of her being a powerful Force adept. But they kept going.

I get the feeling that this is becoming more of a gender thing than anything else.

It's not a gender thing. I like my female superheroes and wish there were more of them. I'm glad they made a woman the Luke of this story and think Rey has a lot of potential. As a character she's a solid lead to build this new trilogy around.

What's being discussed isn't really even the character herself for the most part, that's why I reject the Mary Sue portion of the criticism. The character isn't failing, she's being failed by the story structure.

The people who got ripped off were 20th Century Fox when Lucas negotiated the rights to the sequel and merchandising rights instead of keeping it for themselves.

A deal they made to save a couple hundred thousand has probably cost that company tens of billions over the years.

Of course, had 20th Century Fox controlled Star Wars, they probably would have run the franchise into the ground by the early 80s and we'd be living through its 3rd reboot right about now. Lucas was very good at not killing the golden goose over 35 years.

In that sense, Disney is the perfect partner as they're the company that best understands how to preserve their classic film into perpetual cultural touchstones. Though their creation of spin-off movies is quite worrisome.

Well-- everyone knows what a Jedi mind trick is, right? I mean, Watto knew. She knows Luke as a myth. I'm sure she's heard about the Jedi mind trick. After Kylo opens her mind a little, she was trying it for herself. It's not like she knew how to do it. It didn't work until she calmed herself.

But she didn't even wave her hand while doing it. That's like above and beyond Jedi!