Poe Dameron

I've given up on the idea of using extraneous material to "enhance" the films. The on screen stuff should be sufficient for the story. Visual dictionaries and RPG guide books are just a way to make a couple extra bucks on the films.

For what it's worth, with the mild exception of "Count" being a hereditary title, I wasn't referencing source material at all. Not even the animated material. I was going by how they were presented on-screen, how they regarded each other in the dialogue, and how they matched up in their various fights.

I enjoy the Marvel character movies, and I'm assuming that's basically what they're doing with the Anthology movies, so I'm okay with it for now. Rogue One has a great premise so far. Recasting Han Solo might be a mess.

Marvel's different. Iron Man, Thor, Captain America, and Hulk are supposed to have their own stories. Bringing them together in The Avengers was like what DC did with the Justice League. It was a way to sell a lot of comics by having everyone's favorite characters in one place.

Star Wars movies have always been centralized. The side-stories either happened in other mediums like comics, novels, or cartoons, or when they were theatrical were pretty far separated from the rest of the series (Ewoks movies).

I love it. It was never the concept of the EU that I hated-- it's that I never felt that prose was the right language to tell a Star Wars story. More movies, a TV show, more cartoons-- those can, and should, tell more stories from the vast SW universe.

Well, perhaps we just differ there. I thought Star Wars often translated extremely well to print when put in the right hands. In a lot of ways, print allowed for a much larger universe.

Though I will admit that I'm much more of a reader than I am a television of film viewer these days.

I'm leery of the whole anthology idea.

Also, I hope they push back Episode VIII to winter. I find that I really like having Star Wars and Christmas season together.

These analogies are meaningless to some of us. So is "S-class", for that matter.

I was just grouping the strongest Force users together. "S-class" is a generic term for at the top. It's a crossover from Japanese video games and anime. If it bothers you, then pretend I didn't say it. It's not like I got it out of a source book or something.

My basic point is that Dooku holds his own against the most powerful characters of the series. If Rey were his granddaughter, there would be instant credibility in her being highly talented.

As to the football analogy. I was just demonstrating how talent could still be a thing while also allowing for individual differences. Basically so that you don't have a Dragon Ball Z power level issue where it's all a matter who has the biggest number of midichlorians.

When is Dooku mentioned as S class? What class does that make Anakin, Yoda?

Anakin was obviously the most talented Force user of the series, but never really lived up to his potential. And Dooku was about equal to Yoda, or maybe a small step below.

Anyway, I think the established most powerful Force users of the Prequels were Anakin, Yoda, Mace Windu, Palpatine, and Dooku. And Obi-Wan was in the mix just below them.

If Rey's heritage comes from an old bloodline, those are your candidates. And Yoda and Mace are eliminated from contention for obvious reasons. So you're down to choosing between Skywalker, Kenobi, Palpatine, Dooku, and a new bloodline.

Are we still bagging out midichlorines?

Can't. They're a part of the lore now. They probably won't ever get mentioned again, but, like it or not, the idea that anyone can use the Force and that it's open to anyone willing to learn cannot be a part of the series.

It's just like any other talent. Jerry Rice was far from the most talented wide receiver on the field. He made more out of his limited gifts than anyone else every Sunday. Meanwhile, Randy Moss had freakish physical gifts unlike anyone else in the league. For a long time it made him the best in the league, but he had potential to be the greatest ever and never quite got there.

Still, you put Jerry Rice's soul into Sean Astin's body, he never steps foot on a professional field. The talent threshold to get there remains well beyond the average person. So, while it's not a total matter of potential = result (or high midichlorian count equals stronger Jedi), the pool of people who are capable of achieving these heights is still limited to a select few individuals.

A Jedi like Obi-Wan is probably akin to a Jerry Rice while, while Anakin is closer to a Randy Moss.

Kylo Ren might be akin to JaMarcus Russell.

dookus granddaughter

 

look while it is easy and obvious and would work i am on record as saying i hope shes not another ****ing skywalker

 

but dookuspawn

 

wtf

Why not? Recall his backstory of being an aristocrat with a hereditary title of nobility (Count). It's not difficult at all to think up a backstory where he had a son or daughter to further his line after leaving the Jedi. As far as character goes, it fits Dooku just fine and is easier to envision than Palpatine.

And Dooku is established as an S-Class Force user. Likely only Anakin, Yoda, Mace, and Palpatine were his equal in the Prequel era. Capable of using Force Lightening, easily defeating Obi-Wan Kenobi with his lightsaber twice and fighting Yoda to a draw. He even defeated Anakin Skywalker and severed his arm. So, if Rey were to have inherited Force adeptness from Dooku, it is plausible that she can hold her own with a Skywalker.

20 something years later, Luke comes across Dooku's adult heir. During Kylo Ren's attack, the heir is forced to abandon his/her daughter Rey and is subsequently murdered.

Was reading an interview today with Kasden, he talked about how Lucas back in the day said that anyone who wanted to learn the Force could. I'd like that idea to be shown in this trilogy.

They'd have to retcon the Midichlorians right out of the series to pull that one off. And, while they seem to be pretending the Prequels didn't happen, turning around and outright contradicting them is a whole new step.

Before we had a VCR I recorded TESB on cassette tape. When you listen to a movie numerous times you become very familiar with every line in the movie.

What's the next step in this chain? Someone who saw A New Hope 50 times in 1977 and wrote a transcript in a notepad to read later?

 

 

Also, I don't know when simple and obvious became bad. It was obvious to everyone that Han was going to die, and that was still one of the best scenes in the movie.

 

They made that too obvious as well.

 

I think you missed the part when I said obvious isn't necessarily bad.

 

Hence my using the adverb "too". Think they could have gone a bit more subtle there. Especially since I don't think it was meant to be so obvious.

When I was a kid the only one I had was Empire that we copied from when it played on HBO. I can't even imagine how much I watched it.

You're lucky. I only had basic cable, so I had to be on the ball and pause the recording when the commercials came on and anticipate when to start recording again so I didn't miss part of the movie. Think I ended up making like 3 copies that way. First time, the edited version on USA. Second time, unedited on Sci-Fi Channel. Third time, unedited letterbox on Sci-Fi Channel.

Like I posted elsewhere. I kinda like the idea that she is Han and Leia's thought dead daughter that Kylo supposedly killed but couldn't bring himself to do it. So he marooned her on Jakku.

If Han and Leia thought that Kylo Ren had murdered their 5-year-old daughter, I doubt they would have been nearly as willing to take him back. For that matter, I doubt Han could imagine that his status as father would protect him.

Luke is the most likely. Though, it's just so darn obvious. Personally, I like my idea of her being Palpatine's granddaughter, or possibly from Dooku. Having her be the heir to a legacy of darkness would be a nice touch and is tougher to predict. Rey's family could have been habitually on the run following the Emperor's fall, or maybe even before that.

And do we really think that Palpatine didn't indulge a little? No reason that the Sith had to be as sexless as the Jedi. Palpatine was totally cool with Vader keeping his wife.

Also, I don't know when simple and obvious became bad. It was obvious to everyone that Han was going to die, and that was still one of the best scenes in the movie.

They made that too obvious as well.

Funny, outside of the rewatch of A New Hope a few days ago with my niece and, of course, The Force Awakens, I haven't seen any of the movies in years at this point.

I've probably seen the Original Trilogy films about 30 times each and the Prequels another dozen each. In the end, that probably comes out to be about 250 hours of Star Wars movie watching, or 10 days of my life.

Which I suppose is a lot. But I've spent a lot more time on other pursuits. Heck, the amount of time I spent on the EU novels Disney kicked to the curb was probably well into the thousands of hours.

Update: Tuesday total: $29,528,583. Domestic Gross: $600,949,526.

The Force Awakens has passed the $600 million mark on Day 12. Jurassic World's previously held this record at 36 days. The Force Awakens passed this mark in 1/3 of the time.

I agree that it most likely will happen. However, it seems The Force Awakens, for as amazing as its weekend numbers are, is truly a beast when it comes to its unprecedented weekday haul. The weekend numbers are performing like a typical blockbuster out-sized blockbusters.

However, the weekday numbers are not dropping as much as they should. Typically, a huge blockbuster drops 55%+ between Sunday and Monday. A 70%+ drop is not atypical. The Force Awakens is only dropping half of that. To compare it to the other top 5 movies this years

The Force Awakens' Sunday/Monday drop:

Week 1: 34%

Week 2: 27%

Jurassic World:

Week 1: 55%

Week 2: 70%

Avengers: Age of Ultron:

Week 1: 74%

Week 2: 76%

Inside Out:

Week 1: 58%

Week 2: 57%

Furious 7:

Week 1: 58%

Week 2: 76%

This is how you get ridiculous results such as The Force Awakens now accounting for the top 2 Mondays ever, but only 3rd and 5th highest Saturdays. Among other things, this means that we can't expect quite the same level of weekend boost for The Force Awakens that a normal movie gets. Indeed, The Force Awakens actually disappointed from its potential weekend earnings last week specifically because the weekday numbers inflated predictions.

So, yes, $100 million is still very much likely. But I don't believe it will clear it with the ease that a $31 million Monday might indicate.

Monday's take: $31,362,029: Total Domestic Gross: $571,420,943

The Friday-Sunday actuals came in a few million below expectations. But $31 million was well above the 45% drop I had expected on its 2nd Monday puts it right back on track to pull above $700 million by Sunday. In fact, it pushes up the date that I'd estimate it passes Avatar all the way up to Wednesday, January 6. Only 20 days into its run (numbers assumed are 23% drops week-to-week this week Tuesday-Thursday, 30% drop over the weekend, and a 50% drop next week) as it seeks to break the $800 million barrier by Saturday, January 9.

This is the 2nd biggest Monday ever, behind only the mark The Force Awakens set last week.

Something to look out for: Will The Force Awakens become the first movie to make over $100 million on three different weekends? January 1 is generally a very good holiday and it would need to drop no more than 33%. Usually a tough number to match, but, if the Monday figure is any indication, it should be able to do it. My estimated 30% drop to lands it at $104 million.

Also, I'll note that if you factor in a straight week-to-week 40% drop beyond the January 4-10 week predictions, The Force Awakens would gross $992 million domestic total...

Not about to make that prediction, but that is indeed what the numbers come out to be.

I've only seen it once so far. However, I'll go see it at least two more times before it leaves theaters.

I'm spoiled by a sister who is young enough to still work in the theater. Paid to see a movie for the first time in many years to see it opening night. Waiting for it to be free before going again.

3P0 was totally less innocent. When he hits R2 it seemed really odd to me-- like a total wife slap.

C-3PO slapped R2 around several times in A New Hope. Though in that movie C-3PO acted differently than in any of the other movies since Lucas had written him as a somewhat slick-talking, quick thinking only for Anthony Daniels to completely reimagine the character while on set.

Aside from hitting R2, you can see little remnants in scenes like his selling himself to Uncle Owen, his getting angry at R2 for refusing to play Leia's message for Luke, and his quick thinking as he got away from the Stormtroopers on the Death Star by locking himself and R2 into a closet and tapping on the door as if they'd been trying to get out.

Personally, I wish they'd kept the A New Hope version instead of going useless full-prissy as they did starting with The Empire Strikes Back.

1. 3PO's red arm. That was answered when I read that that will be part of one of the comic series. I was figuring it would be EU related, but why even reference it in the movie. He had 3PO bring it up for no relevant reason.

The first time he brought it up, I thought it was pretty funny. C-3PO worried that Han wouldn't recognize him because of his red arm. Really, I liked that whole little bit as a re-introduction to C-3PO. Classic.

Not sure why they felt a need to have him reference it again later in the movie.

Bringing back Ewan McGreggor would be nice, but ultimately limiting.

If they were to tap into the EU, first thing on my wishlist would be finding a way to insert a new version of Wraith Squadron into the series. A mismatched group of fighter pilots / commandos / intelligence officers using their skills in interesting and unexpected ways. It'd be an easy job to tie their exploits into the beginning of the next movie as the fruits of their mission could set up the opening action of the movie.

Read Mercy Kill about 6 months ago and was greatly saddened to see Aaron Allston had passed away.

You are totally missing the point. Rey and Ren is the A story. Han, Finn and the rest is the B story.

I get your point completely. But the movie begs to disagree. The focus is not on Rey and Kylo Ren. It's just not. Not in terms of screen time and, Finn not giving a rip aside, not in terms of the stakes involved. Maybe it should be. Maybe they should have worked it so that the rescue mission served as the stakes, but that's not the movie we were given.

What you are giving us is not a reason why Rey and Kylo Ren were the A story. You're giving a reason why they should have been.

Poe you are looking at it too much from the perspective of having seen how Luke's story played out through the OT.

Not at all. I am looking at it from just having re-watched A New Hope yesterday. From the moment Luke appears on-screen, the movie is about him. The main plot thread is always Luke's story. The plot device of R2-D2's message to Obi-Wan is about Luke's reaction to it. The cantina scene is Luke falling down the rabbit hole. When Ben leaves Luke, the main plot thread remains on Luke. When it's time to destroy the Death Star, Luke is the only main character out there fighting.

Of all 7 movies, A New Hope is easily the most focused on a single character's journey.

While she did many things, and was the primary character of the first 45 minutes (best part of the movie), Rey quickly saw her role diminish as we pushed towards the exciting conclusion. It was only after the heroes paid their sacrifice (Han) and the primary immediate crisis was resolved (Starkiller Base was already in self-destruct when Kylo Ren attacked) that she re-assumed primacy in the narrative.

The ultimate proof of this was what happened when she split away from Han and Finn. The main plot did not follow her, it stayed with Han and Finn. Her role became that of Obi-Wan going to turn off the tractor beam. Important in its way, but she had joined Kylo Ren as the movie's B-story.

Honestly I think Force Awakens is getting unfairly ripped on as a remake of A New Hope while people are forgetting that ANH was pretty much considered a Hidden Fortress remake, or at least heavily influenced by it to a large degree.

I never claimed that A New Hope's structure was a new concept. Where A New Hope succeeded wildly was in its execution. It understood exactly what it was trying to do, how each choice in scenes built the characters and story, and where to focus attention at any given moment in order to achieve the cumulative effect. If The Force Awakens had been executed as well as its predecessor, indeed if The Force Awakens had managed to work as well as it did for the first 45 minutes, a lot of my complaints wouldn't exist. Starkiller Base would still be stupid, but other recycled bits would be more manageable.

LOL, ofcourse if you change and rewrite the story you could do it without any character.

That's not my point. My point is that it wouldn't have been difficult and that you'd get basically the same movie. You write Luke out of A New Hope, it's not going to be remotely the same movie. You write Indiana Jones out of Raiders of the Lost Ark, you don't have a movie in the first place.

Rey being written out of the story, for the most part, the movie is structurally still intact. The reason for this, is that Rey does not drive any plot but her own once she gets off Jakku.

If you want to get truly technical, her kindness towards BB8 prevents the droid from being sold for parts. She is the one who can pilot the Falcon, which leads to meeting Han, which leads to getting to Maz's. Which leads to Leia showing up, Han seeing Ren. Her reaction to her vision leads to her getting taken prisoner, which is the whole reason Finn and Han go to Starkiller base. Without them there, they could not have blown it up. Her knowledge of machines also allowed her to open the doors for Han and Chewie which allowed them to set the explosives to blow up part of the base. Which ofcourse led to Han's confrontation with Ren.

 

But yeah, she doesn't do anything.

Everything you just said could have easily been accomplished if Rey wasn't in the story. Her helping them get off Jakku would require the most rewriting, but even that could be done pretty easily. Han finding the Millennium Falcon had nothing to do with Rey and everything to do with the coincidence that it was the ship they used to get off the planet. Han going to see Maz had nothing to do with Rey's input. Han would have gone to Starkiller Base whether Rey was there or not. The shield was turned off without any help from Rey. Han made the decision to blow up the weak point without input from Rey. The door could have just not been shut if they weren't looking for an excuse to give Rey an easily surmounted obstacle.

Really, Han seems to be the indispensable character here.

Rey as the protagonist rests more on our recognizing that she's the POV character and destined to be the hero of the story. But her contributions to the story were fairly small.

Saying Rey isn't the protagonist is like when people say that Indiana Jones isn't needed in the plot of Raiders because the Nazis would have all died when they opened the ark anyway.

Indiana Jones is clearly driving the story from beginning to end. Rey just isn't. Like I said, you could have pretty much had the same movie with the same beats without her. All you'd be missing is the orphaned subplot about her discovering her powers. You could still have the search for Luke. Kylo Ren could still have his crisis of faith. Han can still rediscover his inner hero. Kylo Ren and Han's story could still intersect and end in the same way. Starkiller Base could be destroyed in the same way in the climax. Rey's contribution, in the end, only truly effects Rey and Finn.

You could not have the same story if you take away Indiana Jones even if he was a blind spectator to the resolution. Also, if nothing else, you're demonstrating just how muddled the plot of this movie truly is.

The 2 main plotlines are 1-Rey discovering she is strong in the Force

That takes place even later in the movie than Starkiller Base's unveiling. And it's not the plot. It's Rey's progression within her own story, but it's completely orphaned from the whole rest of the movie.

and 2-finding Luke Skywalker.

Told through bringing BB-8 back to the Resistance. A task that Han and Finn completed without her. Heck, a mission that wasn't even completed by bringing back BB-8. Eventually, R2-D2 just woke up and gave them the final solution to that quest.

The Force Awakens is currently #50 on the adjusted for inflation chart. It will eventually pass The Empire Strikes Back and 101 Dalmatians for #11. Depending on how it does, it can reasonably expect to climb as high as #9 as it passes Snow White and The Exorcist.

Still pretty impressive. Only Titanic has cracked the top 10 of this list in the past 30 years.