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Tank
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Interesting. Re: Abominable Bride. I wonder if it isn’t included based on it being an episode of the Sherlock TV series which was then released to theaters? That’s more a pondering than asking anyone here for the answer, based on our industry knowledge at least. However, respect due, Tank might have info there.

The below is an afterthought to my prior post. Fozzie and Met already replied so I chose not to edit this into it as I was in the process of doing.

In regards to whether an actor is a draw, or a superstar, and thus in hopes to further display why I was reinterested in this thread, rather than what I infer is me picking on someone, I’ll offer this: I am hesitant to opine whether someone is a movie superstar without considering their leading role’s box office take. I would also be hesitant to compare parts of an actor’s career in relation to another’s career if both comparisons are not equal. People’s careers vary, and the idea of pondering overall success as a superstar and then limiting the data to exclude the greatest successes is at best awkward to me.

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24 minutes ago, Spider-Man said:

Interesting. Re: Abominable Bride. I wonder if it isn’t included based on it being an episode of the Sherlock TV series which was then released to theaters? That’s more a pondering than asking anyone here for the answer, based on our industry knowledge at least. However, respect due, Tank might have info there.

 

It doesn't make sense to me that it's included in his overall box office and not included in the lead role box office, but it's a decision that the people who made that site made. 

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9 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

I hope it's the last one too. The spoilers I've read on it (if accurate, of course), seem pretty batshit, so I'm just going along for the ride. Can easily dismiss it as non-existent if it's bad. I'm not really sure how they can spin off from either this or previous films, though. I know Ke Huy Quan just came back to acting, but who would pay to see a grown up Short Round movie?

Indy’s magic came from the trifecta of Spielberg, Lucas & Ford. I really don’t get the appeal of a fifth one with an 80 year old action hero when 2/3 aren’t even involved in it. So even if it does end up being good, it’s not really Indy. As bad as the 4th one is, at least it had that. 

I think it’ll make some coin but not enough to constitute anymore or any spin offs. Judging by the reactions to it I think LF misread the want for this. 

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I’m not saying that’s the only way it can be good, I think it’ll at least be decent with Marigold behind it. But what made the whole thing special is up until the 4th one at least, it felt like a passion project between a bunch of friends. Without two of the biggest players in the mix it just feels like a generic cash grab. 

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Going back a few replies....There are lots of movie "stars" left, that can sell a film by being in it. I'm not sure why that's even really in question? Unless I'm missing the point. Johnny Depp (up until a few years ago), DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, Tom Hardy, Willem Dafoe, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, DeNiro... Sure some of them haven't done a film in a while, but any of those names put a film out now it'd sell on their name alone. There are many more to add to the list if I thought a bit about it 

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I think another problem with doing more Indys is the movies work best in a specific time. Once you get out of the 20s/30s era, they don't feel the same.

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2 hours ago, Odine said:

Going back a few replies....There are lots of movie "stars" left, that can sell a film by being in it. I'm not sure why that's even really in question? Unless I'm missing the point. Johnny Depp (up until a few years ago), DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, Tom Hardy, Willem Dafoe, Will Smith, Denzel Washington, DeNiro... Sure some of them haven't done a film in a while, but any of those names put a film out now it'd sell on their name alone. There are many more to add to the list if I thought a bit about it 

I think the point is people who can get an audience regardless of the movie. You definitely have some big names there, but Dafoe has never been someone who you can put on a movie poster and guarantee ticket sales. Not the way that Arnold could, or The Rock can. Hardy is the same - he does a great job, but I’ve never had anyone ask me to go see the new Tom Hardy movie, it’s a movie they want to see and Hardy happens to be in it.  People would go see Venom regardless of the actor, but nobody would have ever watched Cliffhanger without Sylvester Stallone.

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Wouldn’t it be better to suggest that marketing films like Cliffhanger would have been more difficult without a star like Stallone, rather than no one would have been interested in the film without him? Considering no one knew who Stallone was when Rocky was released, and that film was a critical and financial success, even fair to class as a phenomenon.

Circling back to the OP:

The Rocky franchise should probably be retired at this point.

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1 hour ago, Fozzie said:

I think the point is people who can get an audience regardless of the movie. You definitely have some big names there, but Dafoe has never been someone who you can put on a movie poster and guarantee ticket sales. Not the way that Arnold could, or The Rock can. Hardy is the same - he does a great job, but I’ve never had anyone ask me to go see the new Tom Hardy movie, it’s a movie they want to see and Hardy happens to be in it.  People would go see Venom regardless of the actor, but nobody would have ever watched Cliffhanger without Sylvester Stallone.

Okay that's fair about Hardy and Defoe... But I'd totally see a new DiCaprio film based solely on him. (never turns in a bad performance). Or a new Brad Pitt film, or a DeNiro film. Maybe less these days since he's been doing more novelty comedies. 

No one tops Arnie though, true I take your point. But I mean.. that guy was lightening in a bottle. The Rock doesn't even come close. 

Part of it is people want to see people who can actually act these days, not just a beefcake blowing shit up. People actually want to forget who their stars are and see only the character. DiCaprio is one of the ones who manages to be both somehow.

 

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2 hours ago, Spider-Man said:

Wouldn’t it be better to suggest that marketing films like Cliffhanger would have been more difficult without a star like Stallone, rather than no one would have been interested in the film without him? Considering no one knew who Stallone was when Rocky was released, and that film was a critical and financial success, even fair to class as a phenomenon.

Circling back to the OP:

The Rocky franchise should probably be retired at this point.

The difference is Rocky is a good movie.

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8 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

Movies are made to make money. Spielberg, Lucas, and Ford wouldn't have made Raiders, TOD, or TLC if they didn't think they were going to make money, no matter how much passion they had for it.

Obviously? I just don’t get what the appeal of a fifth one without the other two, or Spielberg at the least. 

It feels like the Beatles throwing a last farewell concert that only Paul performs at. Might be really f**king good but it’s not the Beatles. 

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5 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

I dunno man those two Creed movies are really good. But if it continues with Adonis just fighting the kids of all of Rocky and Apollo's old nemeses, then I agree.

I pity the fool who isn't down to see the son of Clubber Lang.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think that some of those actors numbers are a bit blown out of proportion. I love Samuel L. Jackson, but I wasn’t going out of my way to see snakes on a plane, or Coach Carter. He just so happened to be a role player in 3 massive franchises with Star Wars, Jurassic Park and MCU.

 

I think that most of us would agree that they should stop making The Matrix movies. They just get worse with each release.

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Jackson has been around forever, which inflates his numbers a lot, but if you take out every franchise or sequel, you're still left with $5,826,503,037. Cumberbatch drops to $1,848,662,148, which puts him not too far above Chris Evans at $1,332,859,147. 

Again, I'm not doing the work to dig in between leading roles and non-leading, because I'm not taking the time to look up each movie and make the determination of what makes a leading role. That sounds like a fun project from the data geek in me, but I still just don't have the time.

I refuse to acknowledge any Matrix movies after the original, much like anything after season 3 of Arrested Development, they just don't exist.

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On 5/23/2022 at 5:46 PM, Tank said:

Of all the big franchises we’ve been watching all our lives, which one do you think had been played out and needs to stop?

Conversely, an old franchise that I think could have a great new lead on life: The Thin Man.

Dead and buried: The Terminator 

Ready for a revival:  Back to the Future? I know I know. I cringed when I typed that. But a part of me would be curious to see it redone to fit our time now. That movie today would mean Marty would be going back to the 90's. In the original, Doc Brown thought it was ridiculous that Ronald Reagan had become president. What would he think to hear about Donald Trump?

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