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I’m more mad at elected democrats. Their only response, to fucking anything republicans do, is ask for money and tell us to vote. Fucking ineffectual pussy ass cowards. Anyone with half a brain KNEW t

Who are these people seeing laws allowing abortions after birth?

I remember having to have the "do you want to resuscitate or not in case x or y or z" conversation before Lyra was born. Awful talk to have to have let me tell you. Definitely not a full term or post

There is a difference between wanting to ban abortions and putting heavy restrictions on abortions. Politicians usually want to keep their jobs. There aren't many red states where call for a ban on abortions won't put you in danger of being voted out.

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4 minutes ago, Odine said:

It's 2022 ffs. This shouldn't even be a conversation anymore.

What conversation though? The validity of Roe V Wade? Or abortions in general? It's part of the same conversation, but not the same thing. You'll never have people who would just leave it alone. That's not realistic.i think what you're seeing is push back from people who saw laws being put into place to allow abortions into the third trimester, up to and after birth.  So no one left well enough alone.

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Virgina tried to put in it's abortion protection law in 2019 provisions that would allow termination up to birth. They would be given time after the birth to make the decision. It got shot down after the bad press from it. The bill passed in 2020 without that provision.

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27 minutes ago, Metropolis said:

Virgina tried to put in it's abortion protection law in 2019 provisions that would allow termination up to birth. They would be given time after the birth to make the decision. It got shot down after the bad press from it. The bill passed in 2020 without that provision.

I don't even have a comment for the absurdity of this. 

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I remember having to have the "do you want to resuscitate or not in case x or y or z" conversation before Lyra was born. Awful talk to have to have let me tell you. Definitely not a full term or post birth abortion, though. Thanks for the fact check Robin.

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Texas would pass it for sure. Maybe Mississippi, too. I'm not sure Florida normally would but their current governor would probably try. I could see 5 or so states doing it, but not the majority.

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On 5/5/2022 at 6:30 PM, Zathras said:

I understand now.  I chalk that up to maybe long time nightly members having said all there is to say about abortion?  

Not that anyone asked, but my personal opinion on abortion is that I am generally pro life, however, I recognize there are situations where abortion is necessary and should remain legal and oppose an overturn of Roe V Wade, so I guess that technically makes me pro-choice.    

I'm spending lots of time on Tik Tok lately and am seeing this a lot. Yes, you're Pro Choice! Nobody likes abortion or thinks it's good but those of us who recognize that it's sometimes a medical necessity are Pro Choice-no technicality about it.

My biggest problem with all of this is I think too many are making this ABOUT abortion and it's not-it's about the intrusion of politics into our most intimate lives. Politicians have no Right, IMHO, making this decision for any woman, let alone all of us

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3 hours ago, monkeygirl said:

I'm spending lots of time on Tik Tok lately and am seeing this a lot. Yes, you're Pro Choice! Nobody likes abortion or thinks it's good but those of us who recognize that it's sometimes a medical necessity are Pro Choice-no technicality about it.

My biggest problem with all of this is I think too many are making this ABOUT abortion and it's not-it's about the intrusion of politics into our most intimate lives. Politicians have no Right, IMHO, making this decision for any woman, let alone all of us

A good point, MG.  As a man, I am hesitant to speak up about abortion because it is a women's health issue, and I don't want to seem to be man-explaining.   But you are right, I am pro choice.  There are numerous things that can go wrong with a pregnancy, or other mitigating factors like rape/incest, or even choosing not to have a child that will be otherwise born with severe defects or diseases that would be a painful or suffering life.  When I said I was generally pro life, I am talking about when there are none of those factors, that my preference would be to adopt, rather than abort, but my opinion is just that, and I would not foist my opinion on anyone else.  I agree that politicians are interfering with one of the most personal decisions someone can make, and on an issue that was settled almost half a century ago.  

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So, you don't like the idea of elective abortion? I don't either but I'm okay with it done before 24 weeks. After that, I get squeamish. I know it's a human life from conception (that's what I believe, maybe I should say-not all agree) but the more it develops and looks like an infant and less like a sci-fi shrimp, the more reticent I'd be to yeet it.

Now, that said, I'm actually okay with abortion up to birth because I've heard of some hellish medical shit that can come up and I know nobody's just deciding they'd rather not give birth and aborting at 39 weeks. A co-worker's son died the day before his wife was to be induced; the umbilical cord wrapped around the fetus' neck and strangled him. She had to have an abortion to evacuate him-for some reason not given to friends, she couldn't be induced. To have forced this woman to wait until her body went into labor, IMO, would have been unacceptable and medically, it would be a problem. I trust women to make these decisions for themselves.

I'm also very wary of stories of women using abortion as casual birth control. Yesterday in a tik tok live someone cited a woman who had 74 abortions. I doubt the human body could take that, let alone her doctor. I believe there are a few women here and these who can abort with no conscience but they're not enough for me to agree with a ban.

And again-this is all red herring stuff to me. There are no similar bans on any mens' medical procedure so according to the 5th Amendment, this is unequal protection under law, which is unconstitutional.

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So, you don't like the idea of elective abortion? I don't either but I'm okay with it done before 24 weeks. After that, I get squeamish.

I pretty much am the same, there.  If it is before 24 weeks, that's fine.  I get squeamish once the fetus can potentially survive being born early.   That is where I kind of draw the line and say if you brought it that far, might as well have the baby and adopt it out.  That is all assuming there are no health issues or extenuating circumstances.  Each pregnancy is different, so there are times I think abortion can and should be done up to birth.  

 

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74 abortions seems completely unrealistic. Usually they can't even be detected until the 4th week, give a little fudge factor because abortions arent necessarily available at the walk-in clinic, so that's 5-8 years of being pregnant. I mean, even Planned Parenthood would've been like, honey, here are some pills and condoms by then. They don't actually want to do that many medical procedures on a person. Also 74 procedures seems like she would've thrown a clot or some shit by then.

I don't think too many elective abortions are happening after 24 weeks. It would be interesting to see statistics but I imagine that there is some sort of right to privacy that blocks that. All you can do is look at the hard numbers of when the abortions occurred (weeks gestation). But every late term abortion I've heard about has had to do with mother's health or incompatible with life. Unfortunately, that 20 week scan isn't perfect and they don't catch stuff until a later ultrasound. I'm pretty sure they missed things with my son (congenital cataract). Unless you have a family history they often won't look too hard.

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Yes to the elective abortions after 24 weeks. The majority are before. And you can bet Planned Parenthood and any other clinic will tell them about contraception and birth control. I would even say that most women only do it once. My step-mother signed off at getting my step-sister Cindy an abortion at 17 because she didn't want it to ruin her life like it did hers as a teenage mother but she immediately got her on birth control. It's traumatic and scary and not cool and guilt is awful.

What's shocking to me is that the GOP (And by extension SCOTUS based on Coney whatever that broad was that Trump last pushed through wrote in her opinion about providing babies for mothers that don't have the ability to birth a baby and wants them adopted like it's an open market or something) doesn't even want to consider letting abortions in the case of rape or incest be okay. Apparently idiot men who's own wives have given birth are not aware of what the toll of carrying a child to term has on a women's body.

If I ever vote GOP again it will be a very very strange day. Like it would have to be so bad of a democrat I'd have to maybe consider the GOP candidate. This is BS.

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I can't say for sure because I haven't looked it up yet, but I'm seeing stats that say 93-97% of abortions are performed by week 10. I need to get clarity on that

 

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Most of the ones that happen late term are ones where the mothers life is endangered or the fetus has severely bad issues and those are the most painful decisions for the family and doctors to make. Nothing makes having to make a terrible choice about that easier than having your own government tell you to carry a still born fetus to term or risk death so a politician can feel righteous. 

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Cdc statistics from 2014 show that 91% of abortions occur in the first trimester. 65% are within the first 8 weeks.  Only 1.4% occur after 21 weeks.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/uploads/filer_public/99/41/9941f2a9-7738-4a8b-95f6-5680e59a45ac/pp_abortion_after_the_first_trimester.pdf

I'm going to admit that the statistic that made me sad was 1.1 million abortions performed in 2011. That's a lot higher than I thought. 3.9 million births that year. That was a bit sobering.

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I want to find a conservative GOP voter to help me do something to reduce elective abortion numbers. I'm finding on tik tok there are many who say they're pro life but are okay with abortion exceptions for rape, incest and medical necessity. To me, that's Pro Choice. But it does point to the fact that many of us are really close in ideology, if not voting. I think having a somewhat liberal voter and a conservative voter fighting for the same thing might get some attention.

Elective abortion could be so much lower if we provided a safety net for prospective parents.

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Honesly, Tami, I think the only way to reduce this is to work on equity justice. Most abortions that happen are for poor people which is primarily black or brown people. To fix it so that we have less abortions we have to push better education prospects for better jobs for poor people and work on making health care more accessible. And stop believing in poor sex education options. Looking at you Catholic church and your weird thing against birth control in my city. That's not going to happen. I mean Congress just chucked the towel in and went on a two week break and we just had a bunch of mass shootings.

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