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Neil Young versus Spotify


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15 hours ago, Metropolis said:

The pot smoking, liberal, Bernie Bro turned one of your friends into a raging Trumper? You do know Rogan is not conservative?

 

Rogan is pro-whomever is on his show--especially if the guest is anti status quo.  Both Bernie and Trump are anti-status quo.  I had a friend who LOVES Rogan and kept hounding me to listen to two of his shows so we could talk about them.  One had a guest that said we didn't land on the moon and another guy that said Hitler lived in Argentina after WW2.  Rogan was all into the insanity of both guests and I had to turn it off. 

I think people on both sides give Rogan way too much credit; he does have a very confident presentation which people confuse as intelligence.  I am all about challenging beliefs and open to insane ideas (to quote the X-Files, I want to believe---I grew up listening to Coast to Coast with Art Bell), but if you say we didn't land on the moon, you better have some compelling evidence that isn't based on your lack of understanding middle school science. 

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45 minutes ago, Metropolis said:

The pot smoking, liberal, Bernie Bro turned one of your friends into a raging Trumper? You do know Rogan is not conservative?

Neither is Trump.

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1 hour ago, Hobbes said:

 

Rogan is pro-whomever is on his show--especially if the guest is anti status quo.  Bernie and Trump are both anti-status quo so it only makes sense.  I had a friend who LOVES Rogan and recommended me two shows: the first had a guest that said we didn't land on the moon and another guy that said Hitler lived in Argentina after WW2.  Rogan was all into the insanity of both guests and I had to turn it off. 

I think people on both sides give Rogan way too much credit for his beliefs.  To me, he is just some guy that has a very confident, articulate presence that people gravitate towards.  I am all about challenging beliefs, especially my own.  I am open to insane ideas, but if you say we didn't land on the moon, you better have some compelling evidence that isn't based on your lack of understanding middle school science.  Rogan's delivery is very confident and frequently validates the guest's opinion no matter how insane. 

You ever listen to George Noory or Art Bell? Both have, had in Bell's case, shows that cater to the ghost/alien crowd. Noory was asked if he believed in the stuff his guests said on his shows. He said no, but it was his job to make his guests feel welcomed and to give them time to say what they wanted. That's what Rogan does, but in a much more casual way. He entertains a wide range of guests. On a wide range of topics. I don't listen to his podcast so i can't say if there's something i wouldn't like. Even if he did so what?  Is your problem with Rogan, the moon guy, or the fact Rogan even allowed the moon guy on?

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12 hours ago, Metropolis said:

You ever listen to George Noory or Art Bell? Both have, had in Bell's case, shows that cater to the ghost/alien crowd. Noory was asked if he believed in the stuff his guests said on his shows. He said no, but it was his job to make his guests feel welcomed and to give them time to say what they wanted. That's what Rogan does, but in a much more casual way. He entertains a wide range of guests. On a wide range of topics. I don't listen to his podcast so i can't say if there's something i wouldn't like. Even if he did so what?  Is your problem with Rogan, the moon guy, or the fact Rogan even allowed the moon guy on?

LOL--see my edited post.

I don't necessarily have a problem with any of them per se. 

To your point, I loved Art Bell when he had guests on about alien abduction or time travelers because those topics weren't grounded in a verifiable reality.  It drove me crazy, however, when he had psychics, astral projectionists, aliens built the pyramids, etc that was so easy to check they were full of shit.  Art Bell did call people out on their BS and when the guests fumbled, he would just go "hmmm" and move on and not press it.   Sort of a wink to the more skeptical members of his audience.  Noory just lets it go, which is why I don't like Noory. 

Rogan actually believes (or at least pretends to) believe his guests.  Bell and Noory rarely promoted these ideas as truth.  A massive exception was when Bell going crazy over the pictures that appeared to show a "spaceship" behind Hale Bop (and easily discredited by actual experts) leading to the Heaven's Gate cult's mass suicide. 

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10 hours ago, Cerina said:

He's a walking bigotry billboard. I'm not keeping score, but I do know that he's said sexist, homophobic, racist, and transphobic things more than once. He's anying but unbiased. Let's be super clear here - Joe Rogan has the right to be as much of a racist asshole that he wants to be, but the only organization that has to refrain from acting on it is the US government. Every single one of the rest of us has a moral duty to stand against his bigotry and the people and organizations that support it in any way, shape, or form. 

You haven't watched anything he's done have you. Nothing I've seen suggests he's a bigot or homophobic. 

I can understand why he represents that to you, his presentation style is certainly not for everyone, but I think your perception of him as a person is a far cry from reality.  He's had many conversations around Trans rights and sexual identity and the implications for professional sport and the like, true. He's asked plenty of questions for sure, but I've never heard him put forward a transphobic opinion.

As for the racism, I highly doubt he's racist as you say. But I won't defend that position if there is evidence of it. I suspect he's been taken out of context, or was quoting someone or being provocative. 

What Rogan is, is an easy target. He represents hyper masculine dude bros and conservative "muh freedom" types to you because he does have elements of that to his personality. He goes hunting, lifts weights, does jiu jitsu and is on HRT for example. He also smokes DMT, voted for and had Bernie Sanders on his show at length and gave him a pretty large platform. He's also chatted to Russel Brand (British comedian turned wannabe spiritual guru albiet very eloquent.)whom I'd say is radical left if anything on the political spectrum. And he had Edward Snowden  (calling from Russia) on the show when the government was trying to hunt him and have him tried for treason or whatever.

Point is people are complex. I can understand why your take is what it is, but I think your take on him is simplistic at best and not alligned with the reality of who he is or what his views actually are.

 

 

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I think Hobbes take is the most fair so far.

Rogan loves to challenge the status quo. Problem is his listenership is so vast now he needs to think more carefully about people's take away from what he says/asks. He's no longer a fringe podcaster on YouTube. Millions of people listen to him on Spotify many many of whom I suspect don't have the capacity to think analytically or reason, that he is just challenging the status quo, and will do and act on what he says without really understanding. So in a pandemic, when Rogan challenges the status quo on vaccination it makes an already sceptical segment of the population behave more irresponsibly and reinforces their ignorance. Which is primarily the fault of ignorant viewership but perhaps Rogan does have a duty of care he has been neglegent of given his listenership is so high. He's probably let that slip since traversing up the exponential growth curve of podcast popularity.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I think calling him a pox on humanity is a harsh enditment to say the least 

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Really, I have a hard time caring. I mean, I think he’s a pseudo-intellectual dudebro who has no talent at all, but has managed to fail upward constantly. He’s probably going to be president in 10 years. I’ve listened to his podcast and he’s just annoying and that, combined with him also trying to be controversial edgelord, I hope he finally fails and doesn’t get bigger because of it. But that isn’t going to happen. 

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I think that's a fair assesment and opinion. I have a hard time caring about the situation myself.  People just seem to have vitriolic opinions of the guy that I think are unwarranted

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Yeah, but what do you think of a company that chooses get rid of a rock legend over a loudmouth with a mic?  That is what has me upset. I don't listen to Rogan, nor do I care to. But if half the things that are said about him saying racist stuff or conspiracy theory type stuff is true, at the very least he is part of the fake news problem we have right now.  That alone should be enough to boot him off. Yet Spotify kept him over Neil Young?  That is just basically wrong.

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We may have to agree to disagree on this one. In my opinion, there isn't a context out there that would make some of the things he's said ok and not racist. Even if it's a joke, it's still racism. Even if it's quoting someone else but not censoring yourself to mitigate the harm done to others, it's still racism. Even if it's a mistake or a slip of the tongue or whatever, it's still racism. 

And this is transphobia: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1573044-ufc-joe-rogan-to-transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-youre-a-man

And I guess people are free to believe that these are all isolated incidences instead of an indicator of someone's actual beliefs, but I don't buy that. 

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40 minutes ago, Zathras said:

Yeah, but what do you think of a company that chooses get rid of a rock legend over a loudmouth with a mic?  That is what has me upset. I don't listen to Rogan, nor do I care to. But if half the things that are said about him saying racist stuff or conspiracy theory type stuff is true, at the very least he is part of the fake news problem we have right now.  That alone should be enough to boot him off. Yet Spotify kept him over Neil Young?  That is just basically wrong.

I mean,Spotify have always been a  shady heartless corporation. Saying bye bye to Neil Young is well within the MO of a streaming platform that makes billions off artists work and pays them £0.000000001 in royalties per play. Fuck Spotify and streaming services. I still use them for at work, but I try purchase as much music as my budget allows rather than support those criminals.

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31 minutes ago, Cerina said:

We may have to agree to disagree on this one. In my opinion, there isn't a context out there that would make some of the things he's said ok and not racist. Even if it's a joke, it's still racism. Even if it's quoting someone else but not censoring yourself to mitigate the harm done to others, it's still racism. Even if it's a mistake or a slip of the tongue or whatever, it's still racism. 

And this is transphobia: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1573044-ufc-joe-rogan-to-transgender-mma-fighter-fallon-fox-youre-a-man

And I guess people are free to believe that these are all isolated incidences instead of an indicator of someone's actual beliefs, but I don't buy that. 

I mean yeah his choice of wording is pretty horrifically insensitive..won't defend that.

He has a point though, no amount hormone replacement therapy or surgery is going to change that woman's physiology to be on a level playing field with born female competitors. In a sport in which people beat the shit out of each other into a bloody pulp she not only has an unfair physical advantage (having developed physically as a man for the majority of her life) it's outright dangerous.

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29 minutes ago, Odine said:

I mean,Spotify have always been a  shady heartless corporation. Saying bye bye to Neil Young is well within the MO of a streaming platform that makes billions off artists work and pays them £0.000000001 in royalties per play. Fuck Spotify and streaming services. I still use them for at work, but I try purchase as much music as my budget allows rather than support those criminals.

We agree Spotify is pretty cutthroat.  This is but one example.  What I am saying is not that they don't have the right to getting rid of Neil Young, because they can. The question is should they do it.  Just because something can be done, it isn't always right to do it.  But since we agree as a corporate person that Spotify is an asshole, that answers the question.

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Off topic, as a liberal snowflake nutjob, I really don't like Rachel Maddow. Give me Jordan Klepper antagonizing a bunch of Trump rally ppl or Trevor Noah as a stranger from a strange land giving me my pod casts.

But I have been NPR for life. It's been an adjustment to the new programs.

I don't use app stuff like Spotify or Pandora or XM. My Dad loves it but you get in his car and it's ALL FOX ALL THE TIME. I think those apps are great for introducing you to new songs but can become addictive. Bandcamp is awesome for new music BTW. Support local radio! Keep DJs going.

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2 hours ago, Zathras said:

Yeah, but what do you think of a company that chooses get rid of a rock legend over a loudmouth with a mic?  That is what has me upset. I don't listen to Rogan, nor do I care to. But if half the things that are said about him saying racist stuff or conspiracy theory type stuff is true, at the very least he is part of the fake news problem we have right now.  That alone should be enough to boot him off. Yet Spotify kept him over Neil Young?  That is just basically wrong.

Let me quote Chuck D a second. "Elvis was a hero to most, but he never meant shit to me". Public Enemy was talking about something else there but it resonates when talking about Spotify. They changed their pay structure to get Taylor Swift back. Neil Young doesn't move the needle for them. Don't forget Spotify paid Joe Rogan for him to be exclusive to them. Rogan brought subscribers like Howard Stern did for XM all those years ago. Every other streaming service would have made the same decision.

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If the people expressing outrage online would all quit using Spotify, maybe you’d see a change. But no company is going to pick a has-been over the most popular podcast. Financially it makes sense to say goodbye to Young and Mitchell. If Taylor Swift was the one making threats, it might be different. But as long as people are paying for Spotify or listening to ads, nothing is going to change.

As I’ve said, though, my dislike of Rogan isn’t new and has nothing to do with COVID.  

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Well to both Fozzie and Met, I admit I don't spotify and I don't listen to Rogan.  I am just backing Neil Young because:

a) I heard of him

b) I like his music

c) I don't like what I have read and heard about Rogan

Simple as that. 

I get it comes down to dollars for Spotify, but fuck them for backing a scumbag over a rock legend.

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He actually apologized for it a couple of years ago on his podcast. So to me the outage is fake by the ones who combed through his podcasts. Some almost teen years old. It's meant to stir up crap for people who won't dig deeper into the context of why he was using the word. They just want him branded a racist. It's like the thread i did a couple of years ago about Kendrick Lamar admonishing the white girl he brought in stage to sing his song, but got upset when she used the N word. All that girl did was sing his song.

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