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Afghanistan has been shat on by the west for hundreds of years. And no one has conquered or held it for any great length of time. The Afghani people will get through this like every travesty they have had to endure. But I feel terribly for the families there trying to get out. 

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Proof that nation building doesn't work and the US didn't learn from Viet Nam (or the Russians for that matter).  I lay this at the feet of Bush but then again Obama and Trump share blame for not getting us out sooner.  Biden had the right idea, but he botched the exit.  We were right to defeat Al Qaeda and kill Bin Laden, but the mission creep of nation building should have never happened.  It was all Bush's plan to sandwich Iran in between Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan, which Iraq also failed, and Pakistan has since become a de facto enemy. Makes me sick how much money and how many lives were spent on Afghanistan, which has always been tribal and those tribes simply don't get along.  Any fool could have seen it wouldn't work. The US needs to get out of the business of nation building and focus on itself for a couple decades.  Afghanistan is squarely to blame for the Taliban takeover, with their military and police forces being a bunch of surrender monkeys.  I'd be interested to know exactly how many $tillions were spent.  I would wager at least as much as the proposed infrastructure bill.  Funny how it is OK for republicans to waste $trillions ON Iraq and Afghanistan, but investing in the US is somehow immoral.  

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The irony is that Afghanistan in the 60s and 70s, like Iran and Syria were prior to Western intervention, were pretty liberal societies that liked a lot of things about American culture. People were into Steve McQueen and muscle cars, Coca-Cola and all that stuff.  

Now though....

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You can chicken-or-egg it, but the radicalization of those countries (EG Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq) was a reaction to Westerners bumbling in their countries.  That said, Afghanistan in particular has never been able to unite and get its act together.  I hate saying it like this but they are still stuck in the dark ages.  Literacy, human rights, infrastructure, roads, buildings, etc were improved to the best point of their history, due to the US.  And yet, that experiment failed, and it should have been obvious to those in charge it was never going to succeed in the first place.  

It was all part of Bush's attempt to replicate the Marshall Plan in countries that, quite frankly, are where such a plan was impossible to work.   Simply put, freedom and western style civilization takes hard work on the part of people, education, and money for it to succeed. You can't just simply export money and equipment and expect a third world country (Afghanistan being among the poorest of the world) to instantly become a mini-US. 

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The initial invasion of Afghanistan was probably warranted. Everything else was stupid and yet Republicans will still try to tell us that the problem is feeding hungry kids or giving healthcare to the poor. We threw away trillions of dollars for no reason, and we gained absolutely nothing other than ensuring that generations of people will hate us even more. 

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Yeah I agree the initial mission of clearing out Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and killing bin Laden was warranted.   But the idea of nation building is ridiculous and needs to happen here, not abroad.   I am so sick of hearing republicans laying our defeat in Iraq and Afghanistan at the feet of Biden and Obama. Also I am sick of hearing the infrastructure deal is too expensive from the GOP when we spent far more abroad for the last 20 years.  Nation building has not and never will work.  Also, over 900,000 people dead for 9/11 where 3,000 died does not sit right with me.   Sure some of those were terrorists I am glad are dead, but as often in war, it usually is innocents that are the ones who suffer and die.   Definitely like using a wrecking ball as a fly swatter.  

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I am tired of nation building, too. I would rather use our military for targeted air strikes instead of boots-on-ground occupation. The Republican military-industrial complex is bankrupting our nation, and I work in the defense industry. There are useful programs but right now we need to fix our crumbling infrastructure.

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Some time ago when this first hit the news a NPR radio guy was talking to a marine who served there. He said ask an Army guy and he'd have a different opinion than him because the reasons we were in Afghanistan where to kill Bin Laden. The Taliban were his hiders and protectors. This marine corps guy was like we got Bin Laden and we no longer need to be there. We should have gotten the fuck out. But he was also pointing out that because we were there so long we established relationships and made it so when we did get out of there it was going to be messy no matter what. Which totally makes sense. 

Honestly I think Afghans and their history with this stuff reflected how terrible this was going to be. Biden went with the bandaid ripped off approach. The way the Taliban just took over demonstrates that this country didn't want our form of Nation Building because it just went down so easily. But honestly our history for this nonsense is awful. Historically this is history repeats itself over and over again. I can think of not only Saigon but also how Palestine is right now.

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