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Spider-Man: No Way Home


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20 hours ago, Tank said:

They didn’t forget, they had the job of writing a story about the current Spider-Man, and while he could meet the other two, they didn’t have time to recap, pay off, and explain everything from the older movies on top of everything else.

The anti-rules of the multiverse mean anything it’s possible. 

You've qualified for an official MCU No-Prize!

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I'm more tired of post-credits scenes. It was a fun gimmick for a while but my bladder is 10+ years older and gets very mad at me for waiting around. Keep it to the mid credits, that's good enough.

Any more screen time and Garfield would have stolen the movie. He was so clearly giving it his all.

Ask me in a year.

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So depending on how this Multiverse push shakes out with the coming films that address it, I’m now hoping that Holland’s next Spider-Man film is Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends. Reason? 1. Because why the F not. 2. Amazing. 3. Friends. 4. He has no college prospects apparently, so maybe he looks into this “new” School for Gifted Youngsters. 5. He could also rationalize that if his new friends have powers, he doesn’t have to worry about them so much as he did and still does for MJ and Ned. This latter allows the film to reference them for emotional use without having to see them, doesn’t just undo No Way Home’s selfless decision he made, and refashions the “team” dynamic all three of his films have had.

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Yeah. I guess it is crazy to think fans wouldn’t still be down for more Spider-Man without Ned and MJ. I forgot about all the boycotting that is still going on over Iron Man, Steve Rogers, and Black Widow being written out of the MCU.

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1 hour ago, Spider-Man said:

Yeah. I guess it is crazy to think fans wouldn’t still be down for more Spider-Man without Ned and MJ. I forgot about all the boycotting that is still going on over Iron Man, Steve Rogers, and Black Widow being written out of the MCU.

They’ve yet to do a successful Avengers, Captain America, or Iron Man movie without those characters.

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All of them kept their supporting BFFs in each their films— Pepper, Happy, Falcon, Bucky, Odin, etc.

What would be interesting is that if they do another, Spider-Man would be the first Avenger to get a 4th movie.

All that said, it WOULD fit the rumors that they are going to introduce the X-Men piecemeal into the MCU before giving them their own film. And, The Ultimate U version of Peter Parker was dating Kitty Pryde.

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18 minutes ago, Tank said:

What would be interesting is that if they do another, Spider-Man would be the first Avenger to get a 4th movie.

There's a fourth Thor movie coming out this summer.

It's easy to forget Dark World happened though, so it's a forgivable mistake.

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On 3/17/2022 at 12:46 PM, Tank said:

The anti-rules of the multiverse mean anything it’s possible. 

This is exactly what I don't like about the multiverse.  Writing stories set in a multiverse, writers no longer have an incentive to respect continuity.  They can arbitrarily cherry-pick what they want to carry over from older stories, and what they want to leave behind, and it's never a continuity problem because they always have the convenient out of saying it's a different universe.  Any real context for the events we're seeing goes out the window, and without that, none of it really matters.  

Don't get me wrong.  I loved Spider-Man: No Way Home, but I feel like the MCU is opening up a big can of worms by introducing a Multiverse.  Its why DC comics is the mess it is today, and it's also what ruined those X-Men films for me.  Once they introduced alternate timelines, the writers just stopped giving a damn about continuity and which events go with which timeline.  

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You’re not wrong, This is why I list interest in DC. You need a phd in their multiverse just to pick up any random comic to read.

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13 hours ago, Quetzalcoatl said:

This is exactly what I don't like about the multiverse.  Writing stories set in a multiverse, writers no longer have an incentive to respect continuity.  They can arbitrarily cherry-pick what they want to carry over from older stories, and what they want to leave behind, and it's never a continuity problem because they always have the convenient out of saying it's a different universe.  Any real context for the events we're seeing goes out the window, and without that, none of it really matters.  

Don't get me wrong.  I loved Spider-Man: No Way Home, but I feel like the MCU is opening up a big can of worms by introducing a Multiverse.  Its why DC comics is the mess it is today, and it's also what ruined those X-Men films for me.  Once they introduced alternate timelines, the writers just stopped giving a damn about continuity and which events go with which timeline.  

Hopefully they keep it like Marvel always has. They have alternate universes but still stick with the main one where everything happens. Still gets a little confusing when you have characters like Rachel Summers, Cable and Bishop around! But who can keep up with that crazy Summers family.

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That used to be true but the merged in the Ultimate U years back, time displaced the OG X-Men and did a few other things that have made it just as confusing.

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LOL yeah, like does Miles remember being in the Ultimate U or is it like he was always in the main uni? And they kept the younger X-Men in the present? That seemed like a decent idea for a storyline but not indefinitely.

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This question, and 345234 like it, are basically why i don't read comics any more. The MCU puts out enough content that it has become by base-level Marvel experience. As a comic-reader since 1985 it hurts me to say it, but I honestly don't think the comics have anything left. Every well has been tapped, every trope beaten to death. Every idea done multiple times. All they can do now is pull shocking swerves, and when that is the move de jour, it loses potency really fast.

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And what even is shocking anymore in comics? Death? Been done. Hero going villain? Yawn. Villain going hero? Seen it. Character changes their sexual preference? Old hat. It's true, there really isn't anything new to do. One of the biggest problems, or at least for me, was the abundance of big events that they kept doing. It just got boring.

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As someone who has read a select few comics, and most of those being collections of old Marvel comics from the library, it seems like the problem is trying to give something new, and trying to constantly increase the age level and keep adults buying. That’s going to kill them in the end, because very few of those adults started reading comics as adults. But I don’t know that there’s a single title that would be appropriate for my 8 year-old, so when he’s an adult he won’t have that connection to keep reading.

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[trying to post again, Nightly’s been weird, if multiple posts suddenly appear I swear I wasn’t stroking out… well, not because of Nightly anyway.]

Marvel, and I assume other companies, do make some effort to court the youth market. Some effort. lol They collect youth orientated stories into youth market directed trades. Marvel packages them under the banner “Marvel Adventures”. Check your local library! Mine at least carries these trades in the youth section, among other non-superhero graphic novels. Costco also carries graphic novels sometimes, the one in the photo there is called Wings of Fire and is about dragons! Woohoo! Also please excuse any visible mess there, I’m trying to let my kids develop their own sense for “clean and tidy”… which doesn’t have to be perfect (I remind myself everyday I go into their room lol).

 

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The problem with this is they are doing a dedicated “youth” line, it’s often b-list talent and isn’t canon. I mean, that doesn’t mean a huge deal to me, but Met’a point is back in our day, we could read X-Men and while it was technically an adult book, there’s was never anything too inappropriate for kids.

It’s like movies— in the 80s, you got Disney movies and the occasional family comedy film. Beyond that, we watched whatever was PG. E.T. was all ages without being pedantic.

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My biggest problem with comics today is that there are no jumping-on points for new readers anymore.  You have to know the entire comic book history of a character to follow any story.  None of it stops being relevant.  I picked up the first issue of the new Defenders book a few months back.  Now, I've never read Defenders, but I figured, the issue has a #1 on it, so I shouldn't be too lost, right?  Wrong.  Practically every page had one of those footnotes to an earlier story.  I had no idea what was going on.  I guess the book was aimed solely at readers who'd been reading Defenders comics since the 1970's.  I don't know how anyone else could have possible enjoyed that.

That, and there are no such things as true stand-alone books anymore.  If you think you can pick up just one or two titles and follow them without knowing every single thing that's happening in the larger DC/Marvel universe, at some point that's going to come back to bite you.  

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I’ve posited for decades that the comics industry should try out being mini series. What I have described by that is Spider-Man gets a set of creatives and they do their issues, their own take, tell whatever story, and then done. A new set of creatives come on for whatever issues and tell their own Spider-Man “saga”. There is not any continuity between them, just an editors’ note and likely a title design similarity to market a specific story set. Essentially, adopt the film industry’s way they handle franchise projects. eg. Nolan comes into DC and is handed Batman, he does his thing then leaves. Snyder came in, did his thing, and we’ll be nice by saying he then left. Matt Reeve’s has come in, will do his thing, and leave.

Probably highly dumb, I know. Par for my course.

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7 hours ago, Quetzalcoatl said:

My biggest problem with comics today is that there are no jumping-on points for new readers anymore.  You have to know the entire comic book history of a character to follow any story.  None of it stops being relevant.  I picked up the first issue of the new Defenders book a few months back.  Now, I've never read Defenders, but I figured, the issue has a #1 on it, so I shouldn't be too lost, right?  Wrong.  Practically every page had one of those footnotes to an earlier story.  I had no idea what was going on.  I guess the book was aimed solely at readers who'd been reading Defenders comics since the 1970's.  I don't know how anyone else could have possible enjoyed that.

That, and there are no such things as true stand-alone books anymore.  If you think you can pick up just one or two titles and follow them without knowing every single thing that's happening in the larger DC/Marvel universe, at some point that's going to come back to bite you.  

Readership has been dropping since the comics boom of the 90s imploded. The amount of new readers is measurable, and consistent and not great.

Marvel learned this when they adjusted everything to be closer to the movies by merging the Ultimate and 616 universes, expecting all those Avengers ticket sales to bring in scores of readers… but it didn’t.

That means their focus is on retaining readers instead of finding new ones, and this causes the issues we’re all saying we have— no easy entry, need to much fore knowledge, no standalone stories, etc.

 

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Maybe they should try out periodic reboots. Like, they sort of have already with DC multiple times (and they never get it right!) and Marvel with Ultimate.

Say like, every 20 years they just restart everything fresh. You could have the characters age in real time and have definite endings for all of them. Then after that run is finished they start again but with different stories and new takes on characters. Basically like the MCU is!

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I could be on board with that, also with what THT is saying.  I think the problems come when the writers reboot things, only to turn around and use the reboot itself as the premise of a story, and that's when you end up with all the convoluted multiverse crap no one can follow.  I think that's the problem with DC.  They're always rebooting their universe, and they say it's so new readers can come in, but they can never resist the temptation to use the reboot itself as the premise of some huge crises type event down the road, effectively making the older continuity relevant again and screwing over those new readers they wanted to attract.

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They came close with the Crisis but still messed it up by keeping certain things the same, like Superboy and the Legion. So then they had to come up with Pocket Universe Superboy which led to alternate Earth Supergirl who became Matrix and then merged with a woman named Linda Danvers and I think died and went to Hell after Kara Zor-El was reintroduced...getting a headache just typing this!

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