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On 6/26/2021 at 10:18 PM, Tank said:

I’m starting to have too many questions. How can She Loki have a different name, origin story, no connection to Asgard or Odin, when variants come from a skewed timeline.

Also, this Loki exists because of the Avengers messing about time, but he’s essentially the same is OG Loki.

This isn’t making a ton of sense.

Maybe the timeline skewed much earlier in their life. I think the TVA is full of it, anyway. The variant explanation is probably not accurate since we know we're getting other realities and versions touched on in upcoming MCU movies.

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Yeah I thought this was a lot of fun. Loki is far from my favourite character but the Marvel material I’ve enjoyed the most has been the more out there, fun and light outings like Guardians and Ragnar

Just watched episode 4 over lunchtime - a lot of developments for sure, plus incorrect guess work from me from last week!  Based on how it ended, I'm assuming Tank's concerns on Sylvie (which I share

There's still a base logic to the variants that doesn't work for me... and I am hoping this is the big lie from the Timelords... erc.. Timekeepers that is being alluded to with everyone being a varian

If Sylvia (that’s her name right?) isn’t literally a gender bent Loki, then perhaps she is a descendent from a variant timeline. Something like maybe Loki’s orphaned offspring. Or maybe like some random magically quirked orphan that Thor adopts and originally names Loki as an honor to his lost brother. Etc etc.

I also think there is a chance we are in for another twist in an episode or two where we discover Loki enchanted Sylvia and they are just running around in a fantasy while he works to figure out who she really is. With that new motivation vocalized as he was getting his ass handed to him in Walmart. This fantasy then was constructed sometime after Sylvia won by destroying the sacred timeline, but before being supposedly stranded on a doomed planet.

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Just watched episode 4 over lunchtime - a lot of developments for sure, plus incorrect guess work from me from last week!  Based on how it ended, I'm assuming Tank's concerns on Sylvie (which I share in wanting to know), will be fully addressed in Episode 5.

Also keep an eye out for the first mid credits sequence as well! 

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I have to admit I was a little disappointed by the mid credits scene because I was kind of excited by the idea of them going all in with twist.

I thought it was great though. Some developments were obvious at the beginning of the episode but others I wouldn’t have guessed, so good balance. I am really loving the characters in this show too, hoping we get more of background on Mobius and Ravonna. I don’t think it’s a stretch they knew one another prior to the TVA.

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4 hours ago, Dark Wader said:

I have to admit I was a little disappointed by the mid credits scene because I was kind of excited by the idea of them going all in with twist.

I thought it was great though. Some developments were obvious at the beginning of the episode but others I wouldn’t have guessed, so good balance. I am really loving the characters in this show too, hoping we get more of background on Mobius and Ravonna. I don’t think it’s a stretch they knew one another prior to the TVA.

Oh I agree totally - there was a big opportunity there for a real big surprise before that mid credits reveal.   

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There's still a base logic to the variants that doesn't work for me... and I am hoping this is the big lie from the Timelords... erc.. Timekeepers that is being alluded to with everyone being a variant.

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I have no idea what this show is doing.

As entertaining as this series is, credit to those involved, it’s feeling like it’s just Search for Spock / Voyage Home. It feels like it’s just undoing what was done, basically.

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9 hours ago, Tank said:

There's still a base logic to the variants that doesn't work for me... and I am hoping this is the big lie from the Timelords... erc.. Timekeepers that is being alluded to with everyone being a variant.

Ha ha!  Yes, lots of Dr Who parallels to go with the TVA vs Timelords: 

1. Nexus events and fixed points in time - both instances demonstrated by each show by going to Pompeii.   

2. One of the guys calling Loki a criminal with a blue box which was a nice little nod! 

3. The actress Gugu Mbatha-Raw who plays Ravonna also played the sister of companion Martha Jones the 10th Doctors run.

4. Even the end credits has a couple of images that look like Timelord writing we have seen in the series.   

But that's all good with me.

Just watched episode 5 and man I don't know how they are going to end it next week.    I am enjoying it a lot as I do really love all things with time travel / paradox-y elements, but appreciate this won't be for everyone.   Today's episode had some really nice scenes and some funny moments with the various Loki's.   

But just seems a lot to wrap up next week!!   And I am sure I am missing lots of references from the comics with some of these characters.   There are obvious dictionary things to pick up like Mobius meaning a loop, so maybe that's got some relevance?    

In other news, looking forward to them releasing Black Widow on Disney+ on Friday.   Happy to watch that at home rather than go to the cinema just yet (despite me and the wife being double-jabbed and all that).   Same sort of cost as 2 tickets for the cinema, so that is fair in my eyes.

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17 hours ago, Rogue 3 said:

Just watched episode 5 and man I don't know how they are going to end it next week.    I am enjoying it a lot as I do really love all things with time travel / paradox-y elements, but appreciate this won't be for everyone.   Today's episode had some really nice scenes and some funny moments with the various Loki's.   

I don’t have much more to add as pretty much share your thoughts - the “Loki Fight” was brilliant, so was Richard E Grant and all the Easter eggs. The Thanos helicopter actually made a cameo. 

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I still don’t get how a change in a timeline can make you an alligator. I’m enjoying this but the baseline logic just doesn’t work for me.

Of course I’m still wondering how Steve Rogers returned stones to their time lines when half of them had their outer shells/devices destroyed. 

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I think the idea is the TVA/Timekeepers/Kang/Jesus/whoever is behind it all is okay with multiple universes, all within the umbrella of the Sacred Timeline. So it's not necessarily that every universe has to go exactly the same way--hence worlds with alligator and frog Asgardians--but they all have a set direction they're supposed to go. Each universe is its own weave in an approved time tapestry, sort of thing. I have no idea if this is what it is, it's just how I'm taking it in order for it to make sense to me. While this show is a lot of fun it's easily the weakest of the Disney+ shows to me.

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2 hours ago, Tank said:

I still don’t get how a change in a timeline can make you an alligator. I’m enjoying this but the baseline logic just doesn’t work for me. 

I don’t think it’s the show’s fault that you don’t understand simple biology.

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The weird logic and stuff could be explainable by just tagging the series as playing in absurdism or just the examination of stuff through that lens.

The series is harping hard at Loki how he can be whatever he wants to be, but that is something the audience already knows he can be. We’ve seen him complete that arc, at least, what appeared to be the completion of that arc from villain to hero. We know Loki can change.

So…

Where is the story going other than Loki being heroic is the thing to ponder. Is this how “our Loki” returns, aka The Search for Spock/Voyage Home. Or is this us getting to say a “proper” goodbye to our Loki, rather than just having him ripped from us in Infinity War. Is Sylvie just a Loki, or will she be the only Loki afterwards, is she even actually literally a Loki, maybe she is just the MCU Enchantress? Are we on the way to Kang?

Everyone get to the water cooler.

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14 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

I think the idea is the TVA/Timekeepers/Kang/Jesus/whoever is behind it all is okay with multiple universes, all within the umbrella of the Sacred Timeline. So it's not necessarily that every universe has to go exactly the same way--hence worlds with alligator and frog Asgardians--but they all have a set direction they're supposed to go. Each universe is its own weave in an approved time tapestry, sort of thing. I have no idea if this is what it is, it's just how I'm taking it in order for it to make sense to me.

That’s the way I saw it as well, I thought they may have alluded to it in the first ep but I can’t really recall. But I get the criticism around it - I’m just at that point now with Marvel I am with Star Wars, where I’m not really questioning it anymore, just in for the ride. I think that was cemented for me when Peter turned into a giant Pac Man to win the day in Guardians 2. 

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Not going into spoilers but I thought it was the strongest finish to the Disney+ shows so far. Also really happy to get a confirmation that there is a Season 2 coming. But this show really deserves a shoutout for the amazing soundtrack. MCU scores are usually painfully average, this though is up there with some of the best. 

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Spoilers ahead.

My big question was answered, the variants are not from different timelines, they are from different universes. They got a little Willy nilly with conflating the two, but I can accept this.

Also fun to reveal not-Kang the way they did, so he could be a unique character in this show but imply that (with the same actor) a variant of him will show up elsewhere… which we know he will in Quantumania… and the Dr. Strange/Scarlet Witch movie is now set up, as is the next Spider-Man movie if the rumors are to be believed… and possibly the way Deadpool and some of the X-Men show up.

As somebody who does not love multiverse stories, I am reticent, but aboard.

As for the show itself, felt like an abrupt stop just to announce a second season. I didn’t find it a very satisfying end.

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14 minutes ago, Darth Krawlie said:

Man they just sat there and talked the entire episode didn’t they. Exposition dumps at the end aren’t ideal.

Agreed— but when FATWS did an action ending people complained about that too!

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I liked that they clearly showed different universes as well, while also still playing with the concept of timelines within each… feels like mirrors pointing at mirrors which is weirdness I appreciate.

It was a little talky at the end, even my kids fidgeted (and they have watched Lord of the Rings). However Kang amused me so much I probably could have listened to him talk about his “adventures” for two more hours. And maybe the series needed two more episodes.

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What was the point of B-15 or whatever her number was showing the other agent Renslayer as school principal? I get she was trying to reveal that all TVA agents are variants--but it went nowhere. There was no follow up. And then when Loki was sent back to the TVA, it was rebooted/reuniversed. So that whole plot line is just dead.

I really hope, now that we're full in multiverse territory, there aren't going to be bait and switch WHICH UNIVERSE ARE WE IN, WHICH VERSION OF THIS CHARACTER IS THIS scenes, for the same reason I'm not looking forward to Secret Invasion. Mystery and tricking the audience is fine, but when you start getting this level of esoteric, it's too much even for some hardcore fans like me. I worry it might be pushing it too far for the general audience. Granted I've thought that about other things the MCU has done and was proven wrong, but I still worry.

It all stinks of Ben Reilly.

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That’s exactly what I am afraid of— endless cop outs, fake outs, reset buttons, and death reversals.

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This was my favorite thing thus far from the MCU.  I really loved this!  I am not a huge fan of time travel/multiverse stories for reasons already mentioned, but I am cautiously optimistic. 

So Loki goes back and Owen Wilson doesn't know who he is.  Does this mean there are multiple TVAs all holding down what they think is a primary timeline?  Maybe "Loki" is like Neo from the Matrix.. He/ she/alligator is not necessarily Thor's brother...but an unpredictable variable in each timeline that pops up from time to time.  This is why Kang could not predict what would happen.  

I actually prefer info dumps to action. 

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