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Had a marathon recently. New questions and observations.


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On 5/27/2021 at 3:34 PM, Darth Krawlie said:

Just watch Contact. First rule of government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

plus I mean isn’t the second Death Star a lot bigger than the first

 

On 5/28/2021 at 11:31 AM, Tank said:

I think Jacob's Contact comparison is dead on. They were building both at the same time, with the second started a handful of years after the first as a back up.

Yeah Deathstar II is much bigger than Deathstar I, but how much varies from source.  I think it is at least 50% bigger.  Considering that, it had to be started a while before Yavin.  And yeah, it was not finished like Choc says, Deathstar II was maybe 50% complete, with emphasis on operationality, so it could be said the habitable area was about the same size as the finished Deathstar I.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

One thing that is always striking when you think about it is how little time Luke and Leia spend together. Even more than that how many meaningful conversations they ever have. I'm pretty sure its really only when Luke tells her he is her brother and all that in Jedi. Think about it:

Star Wars: They don;t meet till halfway through. Then most of their time they are running around and its really more about her banter with Han than anything with Luke. She puts a blanket over him for 10 seconds on the Falcon. They have a quick talk on Yavin, but again thats about Han leaving.

Empire Strikes Back: They have the one scene together where she kisses him, but again thats more about her sticking it to Han. They meet up at the end but Luke is basically out of it. Then at the very end they are showing together.

Return of the Jedi: They are in some scenes together but really nothing you'd call meaningful or anything that really develops their relationship. Other than the earlier mentioned scene which to be fair is a pretty big scene. Then at the end they party on endor for a few.

 

It's a pretty neat trick the OT plays in making us feel like Luke and Leia have this amazing, special relationship. Its not really in the movies at all though. Luke and Han have a relationship that is fleshed out and seems legit. Obviously Han and Leia do. But Luke and Leia, not so much. Its a neat trick and really it works because you won't meet a fan who doesn't believe the 2 of them have a great relationship.

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It’s how well they sell things in ESB, making you feel like between movies they got closer. There’s also a bit of reverse trickery. By the end of the movie you know Han and leia are in love. Leia’s concern when they shut the shield doors in act one is something you think back on, (or watch again), as a powerful moment. You know now why she’s concerned for Han, but Luke is included by association. That moment sells her care for both of them.

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Even when I was a kid, I picked up on all that.  I never saw Luke and Leia as an item, even before the reveal they are siblings.  Leia treats Luke through the whole trilogy as a close friend. Same with Luke to a lesser degree, if you don't count him perving on Leia's holo-vid in ANH, and Luke seeming a little jealous of Han when he asks Luke if a Princess and a guy like him could get together.  It's obvious from when Leia and Han meet, though, that they have something romantic going on between them from literally the beginning. 

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And the kiss?

 

That look he gives Han after says he'd been polishing ye old lightsaber to her for months by then. 

"Leia! Leia's my sister! .... OH SHIT!"

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5 hours ago, Tank said:

It’s how well they sell things in ESB, making you feel like between movies they got closer. There’s also a bit of reverse trickery. By the end of the movie you know Han and leia are in love. Leia’s concern when they shut the shield doors in act one is something you think back on, (or watch again), as a powerful moment. You know now why she’s concerned for Han, but Luke is included by association. That moment sells her care for both of them.

Yeah, I think all you said is true. Plus I think the characters are just so likeable to the audience its like "well I love them all so much, they must love each other." JJ does a good job with this kind of thing in his ST movies. Eventhough they don't spend much time together we really get the feeling of how much Han means to Rey. Then in TROS eventhough they only met in the last scene of TLJ when early in the movie Rey and Poe bicker about the Falcon we definitely get the sense of like "wow they are close enough to bicker like this and it don't affect their friendship." Also in TLJ when Rey and Leia have their moment on the Falcon, they've had maybe 1 or 2 lines of dialogue between them at the end of the TFA but their bond on the Falcon at the end seems completely legit.

Thats a big issue with the PT. Obi Wan and Anakin barely meet in TPM but as we've seen that doesn't mean they can't quickly develop a relationship that fans invest in. Lucas tries to do what you suggest was done early in ESB by having that talk between them on the elevator about past adventures. I wouldn't say it fails but it doesn't work anywhere near as well as similar things work in the OT and ST. 

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Yeah, There were so many “remember that time” bits between Obi-Wan and Anakin to try and build this but it always fell flat.

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4 hours ago, Tank said:

And the kiss?

 

That look he gives Han after says he'd been polishing ye old lightsaber to her for months by then. 

"Leia! Leia's my sister! .... OH SHIT!"

Yeah I know everyone brings those up, which is why I didn't. There were 2, actually.  One for luck peck on the cheek, the other to piss off Han.  But really, if you look at them objectively, neither is exactly a passionate kiss like Han and Leia do in TESB and ROTJ.  In fact, the Luke/Leia kisses were devoid of emotion, IMHO.  

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Sure… but you can’t deny Luke’s face after the ESB kiss. He’s stoked as hell.

Also, at that point they wanted to play a love triangle and she was not planned as his sister. There are multiple deleted scenes and promo pics of them kissing and it is VERY romantic.

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3 hours ago, Tank said:

Sure… but you can’t deny Luke’s face after the ESB kiss. He’s stoked as hell.

Also, at that point they wanted to play a love triangle and she was not planned as his sister. There are multiple deleted scenes and promo pics of them kissing and it is VERY romantic.

Yeah, I concede that, and I am not saying there isn't an icky factor, which is because they retconned Leia in ROTJ.  But Luke being smug was also kind of Luke rubbing it in to Han, who was being a dick to Leia, too. I don't count the deleted scenes, but they do up the icky-ness.  I don't deny they toyed with the triangle thing, because we all know Leia wasn't originally supposed to be Luke's sister, but my takeaway has always been that Han and Leia were always going to get together.

 

On a different note, when I get a chance, I want to watch ROTS>Solo>Rogue One>OT back to back to see how well it flows as a story, and count the continuity errors.  

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Rogue One and ANH flow plot wise, but are tonally, structurally, and visually so far apart I don’t think they match up well at all. And I LOVE R1.

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8 hours ago, Tank said:

Rogue One and ANH flow plot wise, but are tonally, structurally, and visually so far apart I don’t think they match up well at all. And I LOVE R1.

Tonally, Star Wars movies are all over the place.  The PT has its own feel.  Solo feels sort of like the PT.  R1 is unique.  ANH and TESB are in a class by themselves, and ROTJ feels closer to the PT than ANH/TESB.  Then you have the ST and Mando, each have their own feel: PT feels like a mild reimagine of the OT, whereas Mando feels like a tribute to the OT.  

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