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Had a marathon recently. New questions and observations.


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So every few years I like to have a SW marathon, and usually I'm left with some new insights and questions that I never thought to ask.  Here are a few...

1)  Does Rogue One ignore the prequels?  

According to the PT, Palpatine inherited the DS plans from the Geonosians.  But in Rogue One, the Empire didn't just build the thing.  We are told that the plans that the rebels extracted were the work of scientists employed by the Empire.  Is this a continuity problem?  Or were the plans that Palp got from the separatists incomplete and in need of further work?  Has this ever been addressed by someone?  

2)  Why is Leia a Princess?  

I don't know why I'm only just now asking myself this.  Organa was senator, not a king.  So why does everyone call Leia a princess?   Actually, while typing this, it occurred to me that this might not need a lot of explaining.  Maybe that's just the tradition on Alderan?  Maybe "princess" is a title given to a daughter of anyone of importance? :shrug:  

3)  This isn't a question, just a random observation.  I was finally able to put my finger on something that always bugged me about the prequels.  Lucas made a bad habit of having a character verbally tell us something despite already showing it to us.  For example, we see a devastated Obi-Wan watching security footage of Anakin killing the Jedi younglings when he suddenly turns it off.  Even so, Lucas still has Obi-Wan say "I can't watch any more."  Was that really necessary dialogue?  The PT is littered with these instances of a character given the job of saying exactly what we're seeing.  Another example is Obi-Wan's "You overdid it" line when Qui-Gon used the force to calm Jar-Jar in TPM.  It's as if Lucas is uncomfortable simply showing us stuff and has to give us a narrator to explicitly tell us everything we're seeing.  That kinda bugs me.

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They address the first point in that Genosois designed the Death Star but Erso was one of the scientists to make the laser work and it a reality. They had a book release just before the movie that details it more, Catalyst. 
 

But all in all, Rouge One def doesn’t ignore the prequels - cameos from Mustafar, Courscant and Bail Organa. I think it’s been the only post Disney movie to properly reference them? 

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1. I just assumed that while he had the plans from the Geonosians, he still needed army of scientists and engineers to build it. There’s also the fact that going from a theoretical design to a functional model often requires a lot of change and adaptation. For all we known the Geonosians had designed the mega laser but how no idea how to power it. I’m more vexed on how the data goes from a mini HD drive in AOTC to a massive HD deck to a flash drive.

2. In the older lore Bail was a king, and Leia was princess by title, but assigned the Senator job. If Alderaan is like Naboo, it seems as though royal positions are somehow democratic and voted for. So I assumed Bail was a senator during the PT, and was elected King during the OT, and his family get titles.

But I do like the idea Met is floating. Maybe he married into it. He, as Senator, married the existing queen.

3. I honestly never got that part or even properly heard Obi-Wan’s line. I never understood why Jar Jar was suddenly extra stupid. You just blew my mind.

 

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The “you overdid it” line is actually important in that it shows Qui-Gon didn’t intend to put Jar Jar to sleep. Similarly, the “I just can’t watch it” is a very human thing to say, especially when there’s another person. Those two incidents don’t strike me as nearly as bad as pretty much every other line of dialogue.

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22 hours ago, Fozzie said:

The “you overdid it” line is actually important in that it shows Qui-Gon didn’t intend to put Jar Jar to sleep. 

I guess what bugs me is that we needed dialogue to "show" something.  So many times in the PT dialogue was either unnecessary because what we were seeing was already self-explanatory, or necessary because otherwise we wouldn't have been able to make sense of what we were seeing.  

It felt like Lucas wanted to tell the whole PT story through dialogue.  Take Anakin's and Padme's relationship, for example, and how that unfolded.  They both state their feelings for each other and Anakin just throws out the idea that they should be together and keep it a secret.  There was way too much talk and deliberation there.  We could have seen that stuff happening without all that dialogue.  Their relationship unfolded pretty much entirely through dialogue.  Now, one thing that movie got right was showing us Anakin and Padme getting married without having one of them first say "Let's get married."  We should have seen every other part that relationship unfold in a similar way instead of it being narrated for us.  

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He said that, but then didn’t like notes or suggestions and decided to do it all save for a co-writer on AOTC. Which, being the worst of them probably says something.

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I know it's not the same thing 'cause it's more script doctor but didn't Carrie Fisher help / do a pass on some dialogue in TPM? It was rumoured but I'm not sure if it was ever confirmed. Always wondered what she thought reading it.

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That was never verified. I think she maybe have notes, but Lucas probably didn’t take them. She was actually a well-regarded script doctor through most of the 90s.

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I thought it had been verified recently but yeah, can't find anything on it so one of those things I must have just imagined. Interesting learning what she did work on though when I was looking it up, Hook and Young Indy were on there. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/13/2021 at 10:05 AM, Tank said:

1. I just assumed that while he had the plans from the Geonosians, he still needed army of scientists and engineers to build it. There’s also the fact that going from a theoretical design to a functional model often requires a lot of change and adaptation. For all we known the Geonosians had designed the mega laser but how no idea how to power it. I’m more vexed on how the data goes from a mini HD drive in AOTC to a massive HD deck to a flash drive.

 

 

I don't mind that so much as isn't Death Star II a huge plot hole?  It took 20 years for Death Star I to be built, and I can buy it being an interplanetary effort with one group creating the plans to create the Death Star (Geonosians), another making the station (Director Krennic), another making the super laser (Galen Erso), etc.  I can even buy different types of data storage being used all over the galaxy, to store those plans.   But why in 3 short years is Death Star II built, post Yavin?  I know there are old EU explanations, but how does post-Disney explain it?

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Just watch Contact. First rule of government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?

plus I mean isn’t the second Death Star a lot bigger than the first

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1 hour ago, Zathras said:

I don't mind that so much as isn't Death Star II a huge plot hole?  It took 20 years for Death Star I to be built, and I can buy it being an interplanetary effort with one group creating the plans to create the Death Star (Geonosians), another making the station (Director Krennic), another making the super laser (Galen Erso), etc.  I can even buy different types of data storage being used all over the galaxy, to store those plans.   But why in 3 short years is Death Star II built, post Yavin?  I know there are old EU explanations, but how does post-Disney explain it?

Just in a general sense, it seems the whole problem was figuring out how to build the laser on the first one. Once figured out it stands to reason that future Death Stars could be built faster. Plus the 2nd one wasn't finished in ROTJ anyway.

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I could have sworn at the end of ROTS we saw the beginnings of both Death Stars, implying the ANH one was just further along... but I went and rewatched it and it’s just the one.

Maybe it was in the comic adaptation or a video game?

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46 minutes ago, The Choc said:

Just in a general sense, it seems the whole problem was figuring out how to build the laser on the first one. Once figured out it stands to reason that future Death Stars could be built faster. Plus the 2nd one wasn't finished in ROTJ anyway.

 

39 minutes ago, Jacen123 said:

Plus, there was still the Senate to deal with prior to ANH.  Without it around, I imagine red tape would have completely evaporated.

:shrug:

I suppose that answers that question, but Death Star II still feels out of place.  Then again I guess if the Empire First Order can build Starkiller Base and thousands of Star Destroyers with Death Star Lasers in 30 years,  then Death Star II in 3 years, is a piece of cake.

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You also have to remember that construction on Death Star 1 ceased for a time.  In that opening scene of R1, Director Krennic tells Galen Erso that construction on the weapon has begun again, or something to that effect.  We were never told how long construction was stalled, so that could account for the time discrepancy.  That's how I rationalize it to myself, anyway.  

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On second thought, even with construction stalled for a while, it would have still taken up the better part of those two decades that separates the PT and OT, given how much Jen aged in the time jump that happened in Rogue One.  That opening scene couldn't have taken place that long after ROTS.  Guess my explanation doesn't work after all.   

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I think Jacob's Contact comparison is dead on. They were building both at the same time, with the second started a handful of years after the first as a back up.

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1 hour ago, Quetzalcoatl said:

On second thought, even with construction stalled for a while, it would have still taken up the better part of those two decades that separates the PT and OT, given how much Jen aged in the time jump that happened in Rogue One.  That opening scene couldn't have taken place that long after ROTS.  Guess my explanation doesn't work after all.   

You're confusing R&D with building, though. They weren't necessarily building the entire time, because they were still trying to figure out how to make it work. They got an idea from the Geonosians, and maybe some blueprints, but that didn't include how to create the planet destroying laser.

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I was thinking about this pretty hard and I think I figured it out. I have 2 points

1-It just wasn't well thought out

2-It doesn;t matter anyway

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