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I think you have a great opportunity with KP to "do you", without some of the normal societal pressures. (Honestly, I think moving in together is often a cost-saving measure, not an intimacy measure, but we like to pretend it is.) I think it is refreshing that you two are on the same page with communication, and being open and honest. That was why I knew my husband was the guy for me, there were no games. We may not always agree, but we are generally open and always honest.

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Didn’t get abducted or eaten or murdered. Totally worth it. This place has a 360 view of the LA basin.

I am two of these women.

My day at work was really light, so I decided for some reason to hit the high points of my relationship past: I went on my first date as a junior in high school, and it didn't exactly go well. It

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I hope you’re right. It seems like it’s going that way.

There’s a lot of de-programming for me to be at the same place she is. Like, I have two other dates this week. In my head, I know those dates don’t change how I feel about KP, and Vice versa.

Last she didn’t text me back, and of course my brain goes RIGHT to her having a date. Part of me got jealous even though she’s been SUPER clear about how she feels about me.

I know it’s hypocritical given what I got going on— it’s really interesting how much my programmed neuroses, or just what I’ve been told is normal, clings on.

I’m learning a lot about myself doing this.

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Didn’t get abducted or eaten or murdered. Totally worth it. This place has a 360 view of the LA basin.

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So more updates...

After we got back from the hike I stayed over, we were up most of the night doing stuff. During a water break she wanted to be real, and again sort of admitted that after 20 years of intentional non-monogamy she has been wanting a more regular partner for awhile. In the poly/ENM world a lot of times people have a "primary" partner, meaning somebody who is their emotional rock, possible spouse, possible co-habitator, etc. Like all the things we'd normally associate with a relationship-- but you both still date outside of that as one feels the desire.

She has many times been the outside date to people with a primary person. She's had a primary before, but it was a long time ago. She has not had good luck in finding a dude who can be that., and also hang with her lifestyle choice (not hard to see why).

She wasn't asking for anything, just sharing that this was a thing she is hoping to find. The good news here is, maybe that's me, maybe it isn't. We don't haver to change anything about what we are doing for now. Going back to Gray I have been saying I would like a partner, but also that I don't want to be living with anyone else or feel like I am on the path to a marriage or more kids. So maybe this will be a thing. Again, we don't want to change our lifestyles so the only thing we have to do is continue to date and be honest and we'll see where it goes.

Anyway, after 4 hours of sleep I came home, crashed out, slept until noon, then remembered I had my lunch date with Red. Thankfully I had no meetings today and the deadlines were self imposed ones.

Met Red for lunch, and she insisted on coming up here. Once again it felt like more than just a business lunch, but I think it also may be that despite knowing each other for years, where we are right now in life, we have a lot more in common than we used to, so it's easier to connect? I feel like we're becoming new friends, but if I pursued her and wooed my ass off, I think there's enough common ground to date.

But-- she offered me the gig we met about before, and if I am going to be working with her, I definitely don't need try and date her. So for now I have a new friend and a job, so yay to that. Then I came home and fell asleep again until 6. 

Dinosaur girl comes over tomorrow for a quick visit, KP is coming over Saturday afternoon/evening for a sleepover.

Guys. I'm feeling a little drained.

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I think realistically you're looking for the deeper connection that often comes with a stable partner, at least in a healthy relationship. I think most of us want connection with others. I love my husband, but it doesn't mean I don't want other platonic friends who I may share common interests with. As you said, you may just have lots of new friends to give you the variety you are looking for. Making new friends is fun and interesting, even for adults.

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12 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said:

I think realistically you're looking for the deeper connection that often comes with a stable partner, at least in a healthy relationship. I think most of us want connection with others. I love my husband, but it doesn't mean I don't want other platonic friends who I may share common interests with. As you said, you may just have lots of new friends to give you the variety you are looking for. Making new friends is fun and interesting, even for adults.

I think this is definitely part of it. But also, when looking at the long term, I think that I struggle with passion and excitement in a relationship when it becomes too familial.

Not right away-- with the Former Mrs Tank we were together for 5 years then had a kid, and it was a few years after that when we were clearly sort of over each other. With Emily, after 6-7 years I started to get overly exhausted by always helping her manage her anxieties on top of my own. 

I think this is why I really value my alone time. I have no issue with becoming emotionally invested in somebody, or dealing with their shit as you do when you're a couple, but I do get overwhelmed, and my need for solitude to recharge sometimes isn't possible.

With Gray I thought I was clear that I had no problem being in a for real serious relationship, but I didn't want to rush into living together, and I was very much insistent we still have our individual lives. But at the same time, with Emily, sometimes our lives were so disparate that I felt less connected to her-- so maybe I am full of it.

Not sure if I have ever mentioned this on here, but my mother and now deceased common-law step father were together for 25 years before he died. For 20 of those they lived together... sort of...

They bought a duplex and each took half. So they lived together, but also had completely private spaces. I always thought it was interesting, and amusing to talk about, but now I wonder if I'm not more my mother's son than I want to admit.

I've NEVER been into the idea that a person is incomplete until they find their other half. I'd much rather be a complete person who links up with another complete person.

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Minor update: Dinosaur girl's kid is sick so she can't make it today, which, honestly, is fine. I need a little more recovery time and have to make up for doing no work yesterday.

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2 hours ago, Tank said:

Not sure if I have ever mentioned this on here, but my mother and now deceased common-law step father were together for 25 years before he died. For 20 of those they lived together... sort of...

They bought a duplex and each took half. So they lived together, but also had completely private spaces. I always thought it was interesting, and amusing to talk about, but now I wonder if I'm not more my mother's son than I want to admit.

I've NEVER been into the idea that a person is incomplete until they find their other half. I'd much rather be a complete person who links up with another complete person.

My mother-in-law sort of did this. She gets irritated with other people very easily and needs her alone time. But after a few years of my husband moving out, she got lonely. She met a guy and they got married (she's also impulsive). They were both so used to being single (he was 70 and never married), though, so they had to nearly double the size of their house and practically set up his and her wings, or certain rooms that were clearly for him and his stuff and her stuff. Partially because he refused to get rid of anything, and she thought his stuff was ugly. They have an interesting dynamic. Honestly, I think she should leave him because he has some addiction issues that she can't reconcile with and he has no interest in fixing. The only reason she doesn't is loneliness, which is what got her into this situation in the first place. BUT I've always thought it was an interesting concept, especially for older couples. When you have kids together, there's sort of a need to come together and share space. But what about combined families and/or empty nesters? I think as grown ass adults with no small kids, if you're both on the same page, this could work out well for you maintaining separate spaces or, if you ever do decide to move in with someone again, having separate space in the same home should be a priority. But you're going to have to find the right person who is secure enough to understand that you don't want to be up their ass all the time and vice versa.

This also reminds me that my grandparents were married for 50+ years and my grandma slept in the guest bedroom. She said my grandpa snored. It doesn't mean my grandpa wasn't devastated when she died and lost the will to live. I like that they had boundaries and were secure enough to realize they didn't have to force it because of societal norms.

I admittedly get a little exhausted with my husband's anxiety at times. I know it is not up to me to manage it, but his refusal to manage it is what gets exhausting. He's pretty deep in denial, and a lot of it is him protecting himself and his ego, and that's a coping mechanism he's learned from his own mom. Breaking that cycle of anxiety is hard especially when you don't have the support. I work with my daughter in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to see if we can break that cycle with her. She is a little young for CBT so I have to help with with it, but I think eventually it will pay off. I'm hoping if she can be successful, he will see that it can work, but it's going to require reassessing who he is, and I think that is terrifying for him. This sounds incredibly shitty to say, but I don't think he will be ready for it until his parents pass away. My mom dying strangely freed me up to evaluate my own parenting and realize it was ok to admit I didn't know what the hell I was doing and to realize the way I was raised was not going to work despite me turning out "fine".

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I would love to live a little "apart" from Trevor. I love him like no other, but he annoys me, and I need alone time. I would never be able to do anything while the kids are still at home, but once they leave I think separate bedrooms or wings of a house or shared duplex sounds amazing. I don't know how I'd ever begin to approach that with him though. I don't think Trevor would be open to the idea at all. 

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Where does he hang out most of the time? Mine is either in the spare room which is part office/guest room/theater room most nights. That means I can hang out in the living room downstairs if I need a break. He's naturally an introvert, though, so mostly I think he's the one who needs the space, not me.

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My wife’s Aunt and Uncle have separate rooms, they totally appear to love each other still. They have been together since their high school days and now they are I dunno super duper old... because my kids say I’m old so my wife’s Aunt and Uncle are definitely old old. I asked Sara if she would want that for us and she was like nope. So I suppose it is just one of those things that work for some couples and not others.

In regards to needing time alone, I encourage Sara to have as much as she needs and do everything I can to help her maintain her interests. Whether that is just time for her, friends, or nails did hair done. The last is not a caveman thought offered like you woman must want paint hands. Sara is a lady that actually does like that stuff; nails, neon hair, tattoos etc. Hashthing: BBE (a term I recently learned and embarrassed my teen daughter by knowing means Bad Bitch Energy).

Admittedly I don’t have in person friends I hang with, by choice (at least I tell myself that but I am open to the idea that maybe that isn’t the case and I should reevaluate), and I’m also pretty certain I don’t want to get my nails did. Again no caveman there, live your best life. That said, I technically get alone time during a school year, well in non-COVID situations anyway. Otherwise I’m almost never off the clock, not when they are at school or at home. I haven’t been able to turn off “parent mode” in like I dunno. Sara and I went to Disneyland by ourselves in October 2018? 2019? Ugh. So maths say that is uh two or three years ago.

As such I do long to be alone but alone with Sara. Which doesn’t mean sex, but okay sure I am a man... so no matter how much I’m like this walk in an arboretum is awesome there is still a voice in my head that’s like you know what else is awesome tho am I rite, Bruh? 

Getting that no parent mode night off with Sara is tough because of having three kids still at home, all who need to be parented to some level. Plus my grown son being married now but still needing Mom and Dad occasionally (I guess thankfully, in a weirdly conflicting way to my need to turn off parent mode).

However Sara and I are good, but not perfect, at noticing the visual signs for when the proverbial haystack is too high. When sheer exhaustion is approaching. So when a date night can’t be had or it’s just not feasible for her to go get her salon on we make sure to treat each other with little gifts, support hugs, and offer escapes to a bubble bath. All of which can alleviate some of that responsibility weight even if and inevitably a kid needs us (more often just dad) for something.

We also make sure to talk and importantly just listen, just sit and listen to some healthy venting about whatever. No problem solving attempts, just listening. Although it’s unbelievably awkward when both of us turn on listen mode at the same time, because then all of a sudden we’re in a Hugh Grant film and I’m bumbling over words and intentions. But anyway...

The kids have been at Grandma’s for six days now. I haven’t had to parent in six days. Sara made sure I didn’t have to cook either. We tried eating out, but it was awkward. I’m talking about dining at a restaurant. Let’s cut that off at the pass. So we’ve had take out and she’s made dinner too. Also been nice not to worry about who’s hearing what at night. Or the morning.

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I too remember the time you came to Disneyland a few years ago... and didn’t tell me.

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I have said this to my loved ones and many friends, and it feels fitting in here too. I hope in all ways always that I do my best to make certain that my issues have not and will not cause you heartache, but when they have, I am sorry. Of course Sara has lovingly joked that sounds like a fancy way to say it’s not you it’s me, but I reassert that I mean it completely.

On point to Disney trips, Sara has again lovingly and repeatedly chided me that eventually my friends will be like, “That bitch.” To which I shrug, “That’s probably fair.”

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8 minutes ago, zambingo said:

I have said this to my loved ones and many friends, and it feels fitting in here too. I hope in all ways always that I do my best to make certain that my issues have not and will not cause you heartache, but when they have, I am sorry. Of course Sara has lovingly joked that sounds like a fancy way to say it’s not you it’s me, but I reassert that I mean it completely.

On point to Disney trips, Sara has again lovingly and repeatedly chided me that eventually my friends will be like, “That bitch.” To which I shrug, “That’s probably fair.”

We already know you’re a bitch, but we still love you.

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So KP came over early afternoon yesterday, stayed about 24 hours, then left. It continues to be very intense. We did a lot of talking  and acknowledging that there is definitely some deep connection and things are progressing fast between us.

She told me that she has been talking me up to her more casual regular hook ups, a work mate, and even her mother. She's also admitted that the usual walls, rules, and protective boundaries she has for herself are things that don't seem to apply to me. She also admitted that even telling me that is very much against her usual operating procedure.

I'm totally okay with all these things. For my part I admitted that I've had a very specific idea of what I wanted my dating life to be like for a long time, and between the crazies and covid I didn't think it was realistic-- if not outright selfish... and somehow, she's totally delivering.

Lot's of other things were said, and done, that I honestly just want to keep to myself. Not because they are particular scandalous-- but just because they were just for me.

I'm still actively seeing other people, and outside of this thread, only a few people know I'm doing this. But to the general populace it's very likely that if I show up anywhere where a date is expected, she's going to be the one I am taking. And while I will continue to have casual fun dates and hook ups with other people, KP is most definitely becoming my primary person I want to spend time with, and who I have an emotional bond with.

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On 5/28/2021 at 8:49 PM, Destiny Skywalker said:

Where does he hang out most of the time? Mine is either in the spare room which is part office/guest room/theater room most nights. That means I can hang out in the living room downstairs if I need a break. He's naturally an introvert, though, so mostly I think he's the one who needs the space, not me.

We kinda have our own spaces now. He spends most of his time either in the living room or the garage. I spend nearly all of mine in the formal dining room that I use as an office. Our current home is very open concept though, so there's not much of a boundary between the different spaces. I'm trying to come up with an effective yet temporary way to block off my office since I start my new job working from home on Tuesday. 

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8 hours ago, Cerina said:

We kinda have our own spaces now. He spends most of his time either in the living room or the garage. I spend nearly all of mine in the formal dining room that I use as an office. Our current home is very open concept though, so there's not much of a boundary between the different spaces. I'm trying to come up with an effective yet temporary way to block off my office since I start my new job working from home on Tuesday. 

Pillow/blanket fort?

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