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Just now, Cerina said:

And funnily enough, I don't believe either of these women or their families are members of a church or regular church-goers. 

That’s about what I would expect. Not that this is necessarily a Christianity issue (or maybe it is? I forget if that was an issue!) but the people I know  who scream most loudly about their Christian beliefs being trampled on tend to be people who haven’t entered a church in decades except for weddings and funerals.

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I have a friend on the BSA National Disabilities Awareness Committee. I had her email me a formal, better version with a note that flat-out saying weren't in compliance. 

In the spirit of Zath and Tank sharing Boy Scout memories: I was kicked out of my Boy Scout troop for putting exlax in my Scout Master’s hot chocolate. He had refused to let us retaliate against

I've been trying to respond to this all morning and I'm frustrated as shit. So if Nightly can stop rejecting my post, I'll post my reply.

If anyone trots out their religious feels "But the Bible says...," slap em upside the head with Galatians 3:28. Then invite them to kindly fuck off.

 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

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I don't know why there isn't just a secular, co-ed scout organization at this point.  Take the best points of Girl Scouts and best points of Boy Scouts and create a new organization.

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3 hours ago, Zathras said:

I don't know why there isn't just a secular, co-ed scout organization at this point.  Take the best points of Girl Scouts and best points of Boy Scouts and create a new organization.

So cookies and molestation?

I’M KIDDING. I agree 100% 

I was never a Boy Scout, but I was a Cub Scout in 2nd grade. It wasn’t great but I have a lot very specific memories. It was also the first time I saw how other families lived and behaved other than my own.

Even at that age though I could see a lot of the nonsense Reese is talking about in our group.

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I was a boy scout myself, making it to Star badge, and my brother (same troop) was a cub scout, order of the arrow, and I think he made life scout.  The troop I was part of was mostly trouble free, but there was a lot of parents/assistant scoutmasters living vicariously through their kids, self included. My Dad was an eagle scout, and he was tough on my brother and I, until I had enough and quit because it wasn't fun anymore.  My Dad didn't talk to me for a week. LOL!

But yeah, in a time now where you have girls suing to be in the boy scouts and vice versa, the BSA itself having all kinds of issues anyway (seems to me the Girl Scouts are better run), and also you have parents recognizing trans kids and other modern things that were just ignored by past generations,  and do away with a lot of the nonsense of the trouble maker parents who don't want to conform to today's society.    Those types can stay with their BSA or GSA, and the rest of the normal people can be in a coed scouting agency.   I could be way off base, but makes sense to me. 

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I don't think there are any boys suing to be in Girl Scouts. Our society is too macho for that. And Girl Scouts does allow any girl who identifies as one to join, and that includes transgendered girls and non-conforming/non-binary. That said, there are coed options such as Camp Fire USA (and I've actually looked into them as an alternative for my son to Cub Scouts, but they don't make it very easy to actually find a "club" without signing up first). Venture Scouting has always been coed and I had friends who did it in high school. I am a big advocate of safe spaces for girls because of my own experiences growing up and as an adult and as a volunteer. So we stick with girls-only for her. There are plenty of other coed things for my daughter to do (like her robotics team). Her soccer team is also single-gender but no one is complaining about that. I don't think it's so much about "take the best of both". I know people who lead in both organizations and they say that they are different approaches to the same goal. One of the biggest differences is that Cub Scouts is very family-oriented and Girl Scouts wants the girls to develop those skills more independently. (I have one family that I think the dad would be happier in Cub Scouts but I think the girl needs that independence and her dad needs to back the hell off because he's actually inhibiting her growth.)

That said, the most important part of any successful scouting organization is having good, trained volunteers. Now that I've had a neurodiverse troop and have a non-neurotypical son, I can tell you that I don't trust most adults with my son because most adults honestly suck at working with kids. That even includes trained or paid ones, or even ones that are parents. I was astonished at how bad YMCA summer camps were for my daughter, there's no chance in hell I would send either of them there. I still suck with my own kids and my troop sometimes, but I've learned a lot after taking parent behavior training/therapy this past summer, and witnessing how my kid's teachers (we've had like 2 bad ones, but the rest have been fabulous) interact with kids who have behavior challenges. At least half of my own troop has ADHD, ASD or anxiety, and at least 1/3 of them are considered gifted and some have learning disabilities. These girls all need Girl Scouts, and they need compassionate adults. Finding any volunteer with a pulse is like pulling teeth, let alone getting one that is willing to step up to lead. I have 3-4 women who I can count on to take on a mix of big and small jobs, and I'm considered extremely blessed. If this continues, I will probably have to absorb another troop because it just gets harder and harder to keep kids and parents interested as the difficulty increases, and we have a strong volunteer support system. That said, you have one blow-up like Cerina is experiencing and it all goes to hell fast.

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I don't think there are any boys suing to be in Girl Scouts.

Hi Destiny.  I am aware of your extensive scouting background, and I know you will likely disagree with me (and that is ok).  So, I am going to explain my points of view with due respect to your background.  I am not saying you are wrong, either.   Just offering a different point of view for your consideration.

As for suing, yeah maybe rare, and maybe not too many straight boys, but I am sure there are LGBTQ boys who do want to get into the girl scouts because it is more accepting for them.   Maybe not too much if any suing going on either, but I am sure there has been some pressuring some girl scout troops to allow boys has happened or happens somewhere in this country. 

 

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And Girl Scouts does allow any girl who identifies as one to join, and that includes transgendered girls and non-conforming/non-binary. 

I am aware of that, and that is my point if I wasn't quite clear.  Nothing wrong with it, either.  As society at large learns to cope with non binary and LGBTQ kids, things need to change in scouting, and how we look at it.  That is my point about coed scouting. 

 

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That said, there are coed options such as Camp Fire USA (and I've actually looked into them as an alternative for my son to Cub Scouts, but they don't make it very easy to actually find a "club" without signing up first). I am a big advocate of safe spaces for girls because of my own experiences growing up and as an adult and as a volunteer. So we stick with girls-only for her.

I am aware of that, too.  But my point is that why isn't there a coed scouting agency that is as big and mainstream as the BSA and GSA.  The idea of segregating boys and girls into their own clubs in this day and age is old fashioned in my view.  I'd even argue it is unhealthy.  Boys and girls need to learn to work as teams from an early age, and I'd say what better way than to have coed scouting go mainstream?  Safe spaces for girls only, and for boys, and men for that matter, is wrong headed, and I'd argue short term benefits can end up being long term determinants.  Girls need learn how to interact with boys and stand their ground when necessary, and vice versa so that when kids do grow up, they are able to function in life and work as a team with members of the opposite sex, or LGBTQ/nonbinary people for that matter.  Girls need to learn to assert themselves around boys and to learn not to be shy or uncomfortable around boys, and boys need to learn to be respectful and not harass girls, and learn not to be threatened by girls when they are in leadership roles above them. I think the sexual harassment we see today in the adult world is because boys and girls don't learn to function around each other correctly from an early age.  Also, I would argue that some young adult women today are hypersensitive, and I think allowing girls to interact with boys will help with that sensitivity, and allow them to be more outgoing around men.  Schools seem to do a piss poor job of teaching that, and I think a coed scouting agency with well-trained scout masters would go a long way to correct that.  

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That said, the most important part of any successful scouting organization is having good, trained volunteers. 

 On that, I agree. Not just anybody should be allowed to be a scoutmaster for either Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts.  

 

Anyway, not trying to be a know it all, or say anyone is wrong. Just expressing an observation I made, and hopefully it is something that has some usefulness. 

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Most scouting programs around the world are co-ed. It's just the US where our 2 major organizations aren't. BSA actually has boys and girls accepted into every level of our scouting - Venturing Scouts and Sea Scouts have been co-ed for decades and are for older kids (14-20), Scouts BSA (formerly Boy Scouts) is for boys and girls aged 11-17 but troops are single gender, Cub Scouts is for K-5th and whole packs can be all boys, all girls, or co-ed but individual dens (divided by grade) are supposed to be single-gender. (And I say "supposed to be single-gender" because I don't know many packs that operate that way. Most packs are on the smaller side, so combining all kids of the same rank/grade for activities is just easiest.) 

I think on the whole and from what I've heard (because I have not been a part of Girl Scouts) is that BSA is "better organized" but GSUSA is "better run". Since "better" is a subjective superlative, here's what I mean by that.

From my understanding, and Destiny can correct where I'm mistaken, GSUSA is more locally run. BSA has several levels of professional support in place to ensure that the program is the same across the board. National, Regional, Council, and District. Each unit in BSA is run essentially the same with variations happening only due to poorly trained volunteers, volunteers on a power trip, and minor differences due to an individual unit's culture/personality/religion/etc. BSA has an entire structure of professionals and volunteers specifically to support units and their volunteers. Girl Scouts, I've heard, can be vastly different program-wise depending on the troop leader, and I know nothing about their support structure or how involved or not involved local councils are in the units (except for the complaints I've heard that they're not but that's pretty one-sided). 

BSA also has just...an ass-ton of training opportunities for both youth and adults. Just so much training - online in 5-15 minute videos, in-person that range from an hour to all day, overnight/weekend outdoor skills and leadership trainings, week-long camps for leadership training, specific training to lead specific activities (NRA rangemaster training for shooting sports, climbing training for rock climbing and rappelling activities, etc.), training for every aspect of scouting you can think of (how to use photography in your unit, special-needs scouts, how to have difficult conversations, how to choose effective leadership, etc.) including a 3 part Train the Trainer course that trains people to train other people. I haven't heard of anything like it for ANY other volunteer organization. But, of course, the vast majority of this training is not required for run-of-the-mill adult volunteers, so it's still difficult to find properly trained adults even though all of this is readily available. 

GSUSA, however, doesn't seem to be as bogged down by this ridiculous bureaucracy that BSA is. BSA is slooooooow to change. The addition of girls had been in discussion for close to a decade before they pulled the trigger, and even then they had to do it in stages and our Youth Protection Guidelines are still out-dated for the modern world and, frankly, a huge double-standard. GSUSA is definitely the more progressive of the two. BSA is still mostly an old white boys-club slowly losing their battle for "tradition". I'm happy to keep pushing them forward like this, but it is exhausting at times. I think the program is top-notch, and if the units had more autonomy to run things, we would be great. (we = our personal units, many units out there would be happy to continue to discriminate in many ways so I'm at least satisfied that the same bureaucracy that's occasionally hindering us is at least forcing others to join the modern world) 

1 hour ago, Zathras said:

 Boys and girls need to learn to work as teams from an early age, and I'd say what better way than to have coed scouting go mainstream?  Safe spaces for girls only, and for boys, and men for that matter, is wrong headed, and I'd argue short term benefits can end up being long term determinants.  Girls need learn how to interact with boys and stand their ground when necessary, and vice versa so that when kids do grow up, they are able to function in life and work as a team with members of the opposite sex, or LGBTQ/nonbinary people for that matter.  Girls need to learn to assert themselves around boys and to learn not to be shy or uncomfortable around boys, and boys need to learn to be respectful and not harass girls, and learn not to be threatened by girls when they are in leadership roles above them. I think the sexual harassment we see today in the adult world is because boys and girls don't learn to function around each other correctly from an early age.  Also, I would argue that some young adult women today are hypersensitive, and I think allowing girls to interact with boys will help with that sensitivity, and allow them to be more outgoing around men.  Schools seem to do a piss poor job of teaching that, and I think a coed scouting agency with well-trained scout masters would go a long way to correct that.   

So I agree with this wholeheartedly with just a few caveats. There are studies that show that in co-ed environments, boys are still favored over girls. Boys get more speaking opportunities, are more likely to hold leadership, are more likely to be listened to, etc. Even from an early age our patriarchal biases still tip the scales toward boys. To counter that in co-ed environments, adults have to committed to equality. And, let's face it, most aren't.

My son's troop (and old pack) are kinda uniquely situated for this (and many other situations). Our Cub Scout Pack (where most of our current troop families originated) was completely homeschooled. Homeschoolers, almost by definition and necessity here in Texas, are much more likely to be neurodiverse and taught by the female parent. (I could write essays on this topic and why that's true and why it shouldn't be this way, but facts are facts.) This means that my son was in a pack run almost COMPLETELY by women in an environment where differences were just accepted and accommodated. But also, since homeschoolers are naturally more involved in our kid's lives than the average parent and value lifelong education, it was always easy to convince everyone to take more and more training. So we came from a scouting environment that was automatically accepting and accommodating, where women were in almost every single leadership role and respected for it, and our leaders developed a culture of constant learning and training. We make a point of ensuring equality for our scouts and pushing for our scouts who would otherwise be left behind, silenced, or ignored (those with ADHD, ASD, anxiety, girls, gay, trans, shy, just whatever) to have a voice and an opportunity for leadership. And it's been great on that front (current drama notwithstanding). 

But we are NOT the norm. In other co-ed environments, girls are still pushed aside in favor of boys. It's simply a wider cultural issue. So until the US itself is less patriarchal, I just don't see our 100 year-old institutions being that way either without across-the-board leadership dedicated to those ideals. 

We started our troop with just the best of the best as far as adult leaders go. But then we grew and other people started to join, and we were happy to divide the responsibilities, and now we're paying for that. And on that note, our meeting yesterday was largely uneventful. Nothing was decided or set in stone. Nobody quit. Nobody was removed. And I'm guessing that this still isn't over. 

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Regarding how girls and boys need to learn to work together.

One of these things need to happen before the other. I can tell you that some ugly stuff happens in the work place and even in the school environment. Girls and women are regularly assigned housekeeping tasks on coed teams and in the office. They are made to compete with each other for leadership roles because here, we're throwing you girls a token leadership role to shut you up. I joined an engineering senior design team and was immediately given the task of managing the budget because I was the only woman and was not given any technical tasks. I switched to a more inclusive team where I could contribute from a technical aspect. I worked with that group of guys on a project freshman year and they scheduled team meetings when I had class and then complained that I didn't contribute to the project, which dropped my grade. Despite standing my ground on a regular basis, I haven't changed the world. I grew up a massive tomboy so I'm used to interacting with guys. I also saw how quickly they were willing to dismiss me when they were threatened or challenged.

Girl Scouts has decided to remain single-gender because they have research that girls contribute more freely, and gain more leadership experience when it's girls only instead of having to fight for scraps. Then they have the confidence and experience to go forth into the world and stand up to morons like I've encountered. Young adult women are hypersensitive because the system is bullshit and we know it.

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Hahaha, GSUSA LOVES bureaucracy. There is a form for everything. We have a lot of opportunities for training, but it's based on time available. I still feel like some of our biggest volunteers are stay at home moms. There is some council-by-council management that happens. We used to be hyper local (300 councils were reduced to a little over 100 nationwide), and now it's still pretty local, with some states (other than California) having only 1 to 2 councils per state. But each council is locally run and financially responsible for themselves. I thought our council was super strong but COVID hit us HARD and they have slashed programs (like the robotics program, I'm super sad) and now possibly camps are on the chopping block. All the money for cookie sales stays at the council level, GSUSA just manages the overall tools and marketing strategy with the 2 bakeries. However, I am concerned that the recent COVID-related financial situation has resulted in substantial layoffs at our council and that there is not enough support for volunteers, now. I'll be honest, I am not too thrilled with how our council CEO has handled it, and I wouldn't be sad if she resigned and we got some new blood in there who doesn't react to challenges with fear and essentially giving up.

I will say that the risk management is well done (although that does result in a lot of bureaucracy, as we mentioned). In some ways, it can be really overboard but I think it's kept our dues low because I think we get better insurance rates. And that's a big part of "no tagalongs". You want to be on Girl Scout camp property, you have to be a member and carry that GS insurance. I can get extra insurance per meeting for tagalong parents or siblings but that is a hassle. So it's easier to tell people no thanks unless you want to be a registered volunteer, and that scares a lot of people off. I was very intimidated starting off as a troop leader until I found the electronic resources to help new leaders lead meetings until I got my feet under me. If I have one other criticism, it is how low-tech most of our volunteers are. Before COVID, there was so much waste with paper flyers handed out at adult meetings, written sign up sheets, etc. It was like being in the 80s. I really hope that this new virtual thing is permanent for the adult volunteers

Our council, at least, is VERY good at diversity training from several aspects (race, neurodiversity, sexuality, etc). There's been a recent focus on neurodiversity that I really appreciate, and I probably need to get into some of that training soon. I'll be honest, our area is not very diverse in terms of race or economic opportunity. But I think our council highlights it a lot so I hope it is heard.

I'm sorry to hear that it wasn't immediately resolved, but hoping that means they are backing down (although I would have a hell of a time working with people after a fit like that).

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In the spirit of Zath and Tank sharing Boy Scout memories:

I was kicked out of my Boy Scout troop for putting exlax in my Scout Master’s hot chocolate. He had refused to let us retaliate against another troop, by shooting fireworks at them, after they had trashed our camp. Up to that moment scouting was fun. I was lucky to have not been exposed to the vile aspects of humanity via the scouts... nor when I was an Altar Boy for a Roman Catholic Church. Dodged two bullets there, I guess.

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This is super general, and there needs to be a lot more research behind it, but in STEM fields BOTH sexes perform better in single gender classrooms. 

In a coed setting, girls are more likely to take a backseat to males and males are less likely to cooperate and teachers tend to give more attention to males and as a result males are more driven towards STEM fields.  This is just cyclical and reinforces that STEM fields are male. 

Also, STEM teachers tend to be more content driven.  In order to break this cycle, IMHSO, is to have instruction put more emphasis on classroom structures that encourage equitable accountability and engagement regardless of gender....and do this PK-20.

I was kicked out of cub scouts too.  There were two dens in my school.  Both were scheduled to march in a local parade.  My den cancelled but I went ahead and showed up.  They let me march, but the den kicked me out.  I was like 8 ffs and wanted to march in the parade. 

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11 hours ago, Zathras said:

I typed out a long reply but it won't post.

I think there's something wrong with the quote function.

5 hours ago, Hobbes said:

 

I was kicked out of cub scouts too.  There were two dens in my school.  Both were scheduled to march in a local parade.  My den cancelled but I went ahead and showed up.  They let me march, but the den kicked me out.  I was like 8 ffs and wanted to march in the parade. 

You guys got kicked out for weird stuff. Pretty sure it would take straight up assault to get kicked out of either Scouts organization nowadays.

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I had to type this from memory.  Also, thank you to both Cerina and Destiny for your responses.  A lot to unpack there.  As far as girls in scouting being pushed aside or boys taking the forefront in coed scouting environments /organizations, who is it that is pushing them aside.  Male scout masters?  And is this normally in Boy Scouts?  I am not saying it is right, but I can understand if it is in Boy scouts.  But that would be a training issue much like I am pointing out.
When I was a boy scout, we did have one girl in our troop.  Now, I am showing my age because this was some 34 years ago (I'm OLD!) but this was before girls were "official" boy scouts.  Of course this was a long time ago, so I may be misremembering, but this girl was a scout master's daughter and younger sister to 2 of the boys in the troop.  She did the same stuff as boys, like camp outs, merit badge activities, etc, even had the shirt, and everything, but it was all done within the troop.  No one had an issue. But, if I remember right, it was not done officially by the BSA, it was just done almost like an honorary basis, because the scout masters decided (we had 1 female scout master, rest were male) that the little sister of the 2 boy scouts should be allowed to have fun with her 2 brothers in the scouts.  Mostly, it was her dad, though, that worked with her.  I didn't interact with her much, but other boys did help her, and we all accepted her being there, but I confess it was more like she was just along for the ride. Most of us didn't have a problem with her being there, but no one really thought to make her a special project or anything like that, either. Plus, by the time she joined, I was on my way out, so I don't have many memories about this or I may have forgotten.  But I think the prevailing attitude, was we were cool with it, but she wasn't a "real" boy scout because, well, she was a girl. But no one was negative towards her, but it was more like she was a novelty, but she did do the same things we did.  That is the attitude I think needs to change. 
Cerina in particular, but Destiny might also be able to speak to this, but I wonder if it is still like that in the BSA.

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In my experience, the boys don't seem to care much that the girls are girls. At least not in our group. In others, they may care a lot. And still, I think it's more a reflection of the parents. 

But regardless, the whole boy-girl dynamic we all mentioned is a much wider issue. It's not just in scouts or in STEM. It's pretty pervasive and it starts early. 

Just think about this - my meeting on Sunday was for the Key 3 from both troops and the head of our chartered org, all 5 of us women. We spent a not insignificant amount of time talking about what men would do on an all-male campout with a trans boy in attendance. In the 2 years we've had these troops (which we essentially run as one troop), we haven't had a single campout where only one gender was present. We've never had a campout where only the male leaders could attend. In fact, we've never had a campout where the male leaders outnumbered female leaders. We have 2 scoutmasters, both women, and 6 assistant scoutmasters, 2 men and 4 women. Our committee consists of 10 leaders, 2 men and 8 women. Of our 18 registered leaders, 14 are women and only 4 are men. YET we still were compelled to consider the men as if it were the absolute default which has NEVER been the case for us. Ever. Not in 2 years (or in the 5 years we were in Cub Scouts either where there were actually fewer men). So why did anyone feel the need to even discuss the possibility??

Right or not, men and boys are still the default and the center of our society. It's going to take way more than just us to shift that so that women get a piece of that. 

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My daughter struggles a lot with the boys in her classes. She tells me that when they get assigned to work in groups that the boys don't listen when she has ideas. And she's a totally extroverted, outspoken girl. She pushes back, but she comes home frustrated.

That is a strange dynamic, Cerina. I also find it interesting because growing up all the local Scout packs/dens were run by moms and not dads, and I thought that was odd. We have 1 troop "dad" who is kind of a pain in the neck and thinks he is helping out us poor unfortunate ladies. My co-leader is an Army veteran and did desert survivalist training as a Girl Scout. Another mom was some sort of crazy hardcore Australian Girl Scout that they used to dump in the outback and survive AND she's a professional chef so we won't starve or die of food poisoning. I'm the lightweight when it comes to outdoor experience but I'm athletic, adventurous and organized. But when we actually go camping he just sits around with his feet kicked up while we herd the girls and then has to sleep in a separate area. I tried to get mom to come instead but she doesn't "do" outdoors. He's also the aforementioned smothering dad. I basically tell him he has to sleep elsewhere (those risk management rules) and leave him to his own devices at night. By the end of the weekend I am sending him off on odd jobs to get him out of my hair. Last time it was toilet cleaning duty for the big lodge with the girls who woke everyone up stupid early.

I did lose one girl to Cub Scouts this year and its been a long time coming because her older brothers are very involved in Cub Scouts and now BSA. Mom wanted it that way from the start but Grandma was a GS leader so she fought for it. I feel bad because she really had her own place with us but it came down to convenience and her older brothers already being established (that aforementioned "tagalong" mentality). I know the Scoutmaster, though, and he is a good guy, so I hope he is looking out for the girls so that it doesn't turn into that. I think he will, but he also has a tendency to let the kids run amok (my husband calls their pack a dad's social club). Our kids are close friends so they are always recruiting us (they are very short on female leaders so they have really been trying to get me to join with one of the kids), but I'm not sure its the right fit for my son, who needs a lot of structure because he has ADHD or he just gets amped up and can't calm down.

I think to avoid it being girls being tagalongs, its going to take a couple of things:

1. Time. Like Cerina mentioned, its still an old white guy organization. (By the way, did you end up losing a lot of the Mormon kids after all or did some stick it out to finish?) That's not going to change overnight. 

2. Training. We are conditioned a certain way here in the US. (Maybe even the western world in general?) I've always heard that BSA has fantastic training for its leaders. (Girl Scouts kind of sucks at initial training to get new leaders up to speed but once you are in the groove there are a ton of opportunities and our council is very training heavy.) But behavioral training and changing the way you teach/parent is super hard because you are fighting how you were conditioned. Some people come by it naturally and some people (like me) have to work super hard at it. Having to change your bias and mindset to include everyone (race, gender, etc) is hard and takes time. This is one area our council is very strong at training, but even then I'm sure no one just picks this up after one training session and is an instant pro. It takes practice, and catching yourself.

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We did lose a lot of Mormons. Scouts basically was their entire youth program for teenage boys and they were all sorta forced into it. So naturally, some were happy to stop while others wanted to keep going. We did have a small scramble to find new chartered organizations for whole troops that wanted to continue, but mostly it was individuals who just found a new troop to continue with. 

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Yeah...kinda like how they remade Ghostbusters with all female leads it is perceived as some sort of statement.  All male cast...no one bats an eye.

It is funny when liberals are called snowflakes for wanting to be more inclusive... 

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8 hours ago, Destiny Skywalker said:

 

2. Training. We are conditioned a certain way here in the US. (Maybe even the western world in general?) I've always heard that BSA has fantastic training for its leaders. (Girl Scouts kind of sucks at initial training to get new leaders up to speed but once you are in the groove there are a ton of opportunities and our council is very training heavy.) But behavioral training and changing the way you teach/parent is super hard because you are fighting how you were conditioned. Some people come by it naturally and some people (like me) have to work super hard at it. Having to change your bias and mindset to include everyone (race, gender, etc) is hard and takes time. This is one area our council is very strong at training, but even then I'm sure no one just picks this up after one training session and is an instant pro. It takes practice, and catching yourself.

That's education in general.  The traditional way is easier.  It is easier as an adult to just suspend a kid rather than engage in restorative practices.  It is easier to say, that student is a "sped kid" rather than saying that is a student on an IEP who requires additional support right now.  Everyone has bias...the hard part is recognizing it and even harder to overcome it so props to your council for at least trying :)

 

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On 3/21/2021 at 7:44 PM, Tank said:

So cookies and molestation?

I’M KIDDING. I agree 100% 

 

‘It’s a joke, that’s a play on words. We like to have fun here. Hey here’s my headshot.’

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OH MY FUCKING GOD Y'ALL!!! This is a paragraph they now want to include in our Code of Conduct. I might fucking explode. Just...FUCKING. EXPLODE.

1.       In the event of a special Troop member, i.e., physically, mentally handicapped, or emotionally disturbed, parents need to understand and accept that the Scoutmaster and other adults of Troop 28-82 are not trained, nor do they have expertise in handling these special children.  If it is the desire of the parents of the special youth that s/he be a part of the main Troop functions, the adults will encourage and support the Troop member in the normal scouting functions hoping that he/she will be able to achieve awards and rank advancement.  A parent or guardian of special Troop members will be heavily encouraged to accompany their child on outings and activities to aid in the member's enjoyment of Scouting.  In the event the parent or guardian is not available to go on an outing or activity, it may be necessary to request that the special youth member not attend that particular event. 

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They apparently took the extra special "How to be Offensive" leadership course.

Seriously, that language is begging for an ADA lawsuit. 

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