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A statement on recent events


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I have an adult / late ASC/D diagnosis. I am 46, but got the diagnosis 11 years ago this spring. Every diagnosis is different in terms of difficulty with various things, so I have bad executive d

I agree with you to a large degree, but one of the problems we’ve had with Zerimar is that he constantly claims he’s accepting advice and changing, but then behaves in increasingly hostile ways toward

Lando was designed for that sort of shit. It was perfect for its time, pre-4chan edgy humor and pushing how far you could go on the internet. Then we all sort of grew up--not just on Nightly, but the

The only way I'll go away is if I ever book a Star War, and that will just be for legal reasons.

Actually-- scratch that. I'm scorched Earth. If I get a Star War I'll just buy nightly from JA and nuke the entire thing to be safe.

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First and foremost, ZN deserved the ban, especially in light of receiving multiple warnings for similar behavior.  With that said...

Based on his own his descriptions of his social tendencies, our observations, and his description of behaviors linked to depression and OCD, he definitely has symptoms that correspond with an ASD diagnosis.   These behaviors have been consistently met by banishment, whether it is being fired from a job or being shunned from social groups.  I suspect there are few, if any, other places he feels comfortable with discussing his challenges, let alone some willingness to reflect and change.  It is very likely that this is the only place he is receptive to feedback. 

What I propose is that we reach out to him and ask when (and if) he is ready to be receptive to feedback he can engage in a dialogue with the community about how his actions have impacted the group and individuals and then comes up with an action to repair the harm caused.  Then he may be admitted pack into the community.

I have a soft spot for ZN.  I see him every day as a child.  Students that come to the autism program likely have multiple suspensions and a record this long.  The only way to change is to receive feedback from a community they want to be a part of.  

On the flip side, this is a community we are all voluntarily a part of.  Maybe more voluntary than any other community in our lives.  This isn't school or work or family that we have a moral or financial obligation to be a part of.  For most of us, we have posted here at least, if not more than half our lives so this is an area we shouldn't have to deal with this kind of bullshit when we deal with this kind of bullshit in our normal lives. 

Anyways, just throwing that out. 

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30 minutes ago, Tank said:

The only way I'll go away is if I ever book a Star War, and that will just be for legal reasons.

Actually-- scratch that. I'm scorched Earth. If I get a Star War I'll just buy nightly from JA and nuke the entire thing to be safe.

Note to self: start printing the archives so I can blackmail Tank in case that happens.

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I'm sorry, but if I have any input on Z's returning, it's a hard no from me. 

If the powers that be decide to allow him back, I'll just put his bloviating, sexist, homophobic butt back on ignore.

I appreciate a desire to reach out and offer an olive branch, but I found him to be a negative, disruptive presence in every forum he participated in, and he consistently demonstrated that he was willing to say he was taking feedback to heart without actually doing so.

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31 minutes ago, Hobbes said:

First and foremost, ZN deserved the ban, especially in light of receiving multiple warnings for similar behavior.  With that said...

Based on his own his descriptions of his social tendencies, our observations, and his description of behaviors linked to depression and OCD, he definitely has symptoms that correspond with an ASD diagnosis.   These behaviors have been consistently met by banishment, whether it is being fired from a job or being shunned from social groups.  I suspect there are few, if any, other places he feels comfortable with discussing his challenges, let alone some willingness to reflect and change.  It is very likely that this is the only place he is receptive to feedback. 

What I propose is that we reach out to him and ask when (and if) he is ready to be receptive to feedback he can engage in a dialogue with the community about how his actions have impacted the group and individuals and then comes up with an action to repair the harm caused.  Then he may be admitted pack into the community.

I have a soft spot for ZN.  I see him every day as a child.  Students that come to the autism program likely have multiple suspensions and a record this long.  The only way to change is to receive feedback from a community they want to be a part of.  

On the flip side, this is a community we are all voluntarily a part of.  Maybe more voluntary than any other community in our lives.  This isn't school or work or family that we have a moral or financial obligation to be a part of.  For most of us, we have posted here at least, if not more than half our lives so this is an area we shouldn't have to deal with this kind of bullshit when we deal with this kind of bullshit in our normal lives. 

Anyways, just throwing that out. 

I agree with you to a large degree, but one of the problems we’ve had with Zerimar is that he constantly claims he’s accepting advice and changing, but then behaves in increasingly hostile ways towards anyone who he sees as against him. I feel for him, because he has issues whether he’s on the autism spectrum or not. But he’s also bullied and insulted people that he sees as beneath him, which includes all women. I can’t, in good conscience, tell the women of Nightly that they have less value than him. And that would be the message.

If he gets help and contacts us in the future, we’ll consider it the same we have with other banned users. But the admin team isn’t going to be reaching out to him.

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I hate to see anyone banned but this one was earned. A man doesn't talk to a woman that way. And its not about any one word in particular. What kind of man could talk to any woman with that kind of tone and harshness? 

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13 minutes ago, The Choc said:

I hate to see anyone banned but this one was earned. A man doesn't talk to a woman that way. And its not about any one word in particular. What kind of man could talk to any woman with that kind of tone and harshness? 

I could see from the very beginning when he started posting his dating nonsense in here years ago that he was a complete fucking idiot with women and had zero respect towards women and they were objects to him.

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How old is Z?  I like the guy, in spite of himself, and feel bad for him.  He acts like he's stuck in the mind of an 8th grader.   He acknowledges his misgivings but also seems to use them to get away with a lot.  

I don't think the guy can change.  Has he evolved at all?  Every single person here is WAY different than you were at the beginning.  You're all the same but more mature, smarter, wiser....literally all of you.   How long has Z been here?

I agree that he probably really needed this place as some form of human interaction that was actually good for him.   I hope he learns from this and I do hope that he has somewhere or someone that can help him and he can confide in.  

I kinda feel bad, I feel like I was always hard on him with his EU fanboy crap.  it was in good fun.  I hope he knows that. 

His comments to Cerina, as well as his constant sexist and mansplain talk is totally unacceptable and I'm surprised he wasn't banned for this a few months back. 

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If as some people say he needed this place for interaction it may be better for it to be taken away. There is nothing wrong with talking to people here and becoming friends or whatever but if its your major source of that, I don't think that can be good. Maybe this place was a crutch that needed to be removed to kinda force him to find in real life friendships?

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12 minutes ago, The Choc said:

If as some people say he needed this place for interaction it may be better for it to be taken away. There is nothing wrong with talking to people here and becoming friends or whatever but if its your major source of that, I don't think that can be good. Maybe this place was a crutch that needed to be removed to kinda force him to find in real life friendships?

Perhaps.  He definitely needs that but not everyone has it.  I get the feeling most of his interaction comes online but I could be wrong.  I didn't really know much about him. 

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7 hours ago, Fozzie said:

I agree with you to a large degree, but one of the problems we’ve had with Zerimar is that he constantly claims he’s accepting advice and changing, but then behaves in increasingly hostile ways towards anyone who he sees as against him. I feel for him, because he has issues whether he’s on the autism spectrum or not. But he’s also bullied and insulted people that he sees as beneath him, which includes all women. I can’t, in good conscience, tell the women of Nightly that they have less value than him. And that would be the message.

Thank you. While I try to let most people on here be (because let's face it, its not exactly a Hotspot on the internet anymore, and we've all put up with each other's shit for this long), its become increasingly uncomfortable and I was actively avoiding discussions he was involved in. I think he is probably struggling with the pandemic like many of us are (since that seems to line up with a lot of his escalation in behavior), you can't make other people miserable just because you are.

I hope he gets help and finds peace. ASD or not, there was certainly a healthy dose of narcissist behavior that's going to drive away most companionship.

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17 hours ago, Fozzie said:

I agree with you to a large degree, but one of the problems we’ve had with Zerimar is that he constantly claims he’s accepting advice and changing, but then behaves in increasingly hostile ways towards anyone who he sees as against him. I feel for him, because he has issues whether he’s on the autism spectrum or not. But he’s also bullied and insulted people that he sees as beneath him, which includes all women. I can’t, in good conscience, tell the women of Nightly that they have less value than him. And that would be the message.

If he gets help and contacts us in the future, we’ll consider it the same we have with other banned users. But the admin team isn’t going to be reaching out to him.

Yep. Personal free speech and rights only goes so far.  Once you start infringing on others' speech and rights, you lose your own. Z was doing exactly that with women in general, and the our nightly members. Keeping him around would not have been fair to them.   I get he has some problems, but he also knows right from wrong. There is no excuse for that behavior.  

And you are spot on.  I don't know what his motivation was for posting threads for advice and agreeing to take the advice, but then a few months later, still ask the same question, or an event that is just a variation on the previous one, and same advice would have applied.  I really wanted to help the guy by giving advice based on what I have been through, but some people you can't help them, unless they want to change. 

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12 hours ago, Jedigoat said:

How old is Z?  I like the guy, in spite of himself, and feel bad for him.  He acts like he's stuck in the mind of an 8th grader.   He acknowledges his misgivings but also seems to use them to get away with a lot.  

I don't think the guy can change.  Has he evolved at all?  Every single person here is WAY different than you were at the beginning.  You're all the same but more mature, smarter, wiser....literally all of you.   How long has Z been here?

I agree that he probably really needed this place as some form of human interaction that was actually good for him.   I hope he learns from this and I do hope that he has somewhere or someone that can help him and he can confide in.  

I kinda feel bad, I feel like I was always hard on him with his EU fanboy crap.  it was in good fun.  I hope he knows that. 

His comments to Cerina, as well as his constant sexist and mansplain talk is totally unacceptable and I'm surprised he wasn't banned for this a few months back. 

He’s in his mid-to-late thirties and has been a member since 2004. 
 

Cerina and I both hate to ban people. Especially since we’re such a small group, it feels like kicking someone out of a group of friends. Which is why I felt it was important to acknowledge it.

14 minutes ago, Zathras said:

Yep. Personal free speech and rights only goes so far.  Once you start infringing on others' speech and rights, you lose your own. Z was doing exactly that with women in general, and the our nightly members. Keeping him around would not have been fair to them.   I get he has some problems, but he also knows right from wrong. There is no excuse for that behavior.  

And you are spot on.  I don't know what his motivation was for posting threads for advice and agreeing to take the advice, but then a few months later, still ask the same question, or an event that is just a variation on the previous one, and same advice would have applied.  I really wanted to help the guy by giving advice based on what I have been through, but some people you can't help them, unless they want to change. 

The thing that was the final straw was actually his defense of his language. If he had just called Cerina the name I might have been willing to do a temp ban. But his defense was the same as every racist/sexist I’ve ever known “it isn’t bad because I would call anyone that” or the similar “not all women / not all black people”. Living in Ohio, I heard stuff like that all the time growing up, and it wasn’t until I was older that I realized that those people actually are sexist and/or racist. We won’t go to the family reunion for my dad’s family because of it. 

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Yeah, in essence, he was doubling down.  But personally, I think throwing out an insult like that is bad enough for a permaban. Not that it is my call in the first place.  Just my 2 cents. 

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Just now, Zathras said:

Yeah, in essence, he was doubling down.  But personally, I think throwing out an insult like that is bad enough for a permaban. Not that it is my call in the first place.  Just my 2 cents. 

I agree, but that was the reason I went above what Cerina had done. Typically we’re much more likely to go along with whatever the other one did. But as she pointed out, we also do a much better job of protecting each other than ourselves.

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Mid to late 30's?   Jesus.  Yeah he's way out of touch and, based on his posts, my first assumption is someone in his early 20's at the most.   Though I did know he's older than that but even a 20 year old knows better.   Hell, a ten year old knows better.  

At his age, it's hard to change and pretty unlikely.  

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I have an adult / late ASC/D diagnosis. I am 46, but got the diagnosis 11 years ago this spring.

Every diagnosis is different in terms of difficulty with various things, so I have bad executive dysfunction (maybe ADD)* and any sensory overload issues are related to touch instead of hearing (Hobbes might have forgotten more about autism than I know), but a kind of immaturity is there and I am very self-conscious about it (other people's maturity often makes me anxious), and I know it is unlikely to change.

(edit, point being don't focus on someone's immaturity, but rather their not being aware of it)

But the key to coping is self-awareness and accepting that how you perceive things and how you are perceived is not always the same as other people, and accepting the implications of that (involuntary celibacy started as a useful label for people like me until a load of foolish entitled men stole it and started blaming women for their situation instead of themselves).

So sometimes my kayaking club will meet up with other clubs and there's the usual hugs etc. when we go home, but I don't always get hugs (get handshakes instead) because something about how I speak or my body language obviously makes some women I meet slightly wary. That usually goes away when they have spent more time with me, but trust takes slightly longer to earn (if at all) and I'm fine with that. I'm not entitled to it.

This was something I had half-finished as advice of sorts to Z (about adult autism diagnosis) and was going to finish yesterday morning, but when I woke up things had exploded and the dating thread was locked.

I'm worried about his reaction to the ban, but I've always been worried about him because of how he doesn't react to advice (especially that about not idealizing women / relationships, "unicorns" yikes) plus not having the support structures I have. Hopefully an autism diagnosis, albeit one that isn't going to unburn any bridges (I've burned dozens), will help.

Of course, no excuses for sexist abuse (and "females" instead of "women"), and I don't want to under-emphasize how maddening it is to deal with people who won't react to advice either (including myself to a degree).

*(this is why my posts are sometimes rambling / stream-of-consciousness and grammatically horrifying; it's often either that or not posting anything at all)

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I'm worried about his reaction to the ban, but I've always been worried about him because of how he doesn't react to advice (especially that about not idealizing women / relationships, "unicorns" yikes) plus not having the support structures I have. Hopefully an autism diagnosis, albeit one that isn't going to unburn any bridges (I've burned dozens), will help.

I agree with that.  I do hope Z does talk this over with his therapist, and things do get better for him.  While I agree that he put himself in the situation that got him banned, and the ban was appropriate,  I don't wish bad on him in any way.  I also have done and said stupid things, including here, and hope he was just having a bad day, and nothing worse is going on.  I didn't see it until just s few minutes ago, but he posted his Dad was going into surgery, and wonder if the stress of that may have contributed to his actions (as in being under stress may have caused him to lash out).  

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Fozzie, did you message him or anything when you banned him, or just banned and that's it?

Not like you would have needed to, if he doesn't know why he was banned then he's got bigger problems than we thought. 

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He reached out to me on FB to pass on his apologies, especially to Cerina. He wanted to do an in depth explanation for everyone but I told him not to stress out about that. He wasn’t asking to come back, he totally gets it and owns it.

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