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Marilyn Manson in Hot Water


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I don't know if you've heard the recent news, but actress Evan Rachel Wood as outed her ex-boyfriend, Marilyn Manson, for having subjected her to horrific amounts of physical, mental, emotional, and sexual abuse over the course of their relationship. I will link to a video by an excellent psychiatrist named Dr. Grande whom I follow on YouTube to bring you up to speed:
 


Since coming forward, over the past few days both Trent Reznor (who discovered Manson and produced his first two albums) and former band guitarist have backed up these claims, saying they were "all completely true."

Before this story even came out, I watched a video put out near the end of last year that highlights Manson's abusive history, so I was already feeling conflicted about the guy before the news even hit. I'll link that video below:
 


One thing I should note about the above video is that I did some fact-checking, and it turns out that the clip of the abused groupie from what the author calls "the Lost Manson Tape" is, in fact, an actress hired by Manson for a short film he planned to put out in 1996 called Groupie, wherein after Manson and his band members finishing blowing each other (yeah), a young fan is brought to the trailer. Manson and his bandmates tie her up and proceed to subject her to horrific verbal, physical, and sexual abuse, and even force her to drink a cup of urine (actually apple juice). After viewing the film, Manson's lawyer told him he'd "hang onto it" because if it ever got out, it would land Manson in prison and destroy his career. Still, Manson proceeded to release the short clip in the video above. Even though it was acted out, it is still disturbing. Does it mean Manson has rape and torture fantasies? I'd even heard he has murder fantasies, though I can't back that up.

As you probably know, I am a big Marilyn Manson fan and have been for two decades. My user name, Zerimar Nyliram, is an anagram of Marilyn Ramirez, paying homage to Marilyn Manson and twice former bassist Twiggy Ramirez (who, incidentally, was kicked out of the band a few years ago because of surfacing claims of sexual harassment, after briefly reuniting with the band after many years apart). As you can probably guess, this has me of two minds. Manson and his music are so ingrained in me that hardly a week goes by where I don't listen to a song or watch a YouTube video of an old performance. It's oddly helped me become who I am, despite being religious. When I hear his music or watch a concert, something undefinable awakes inside of me that makes me feel alive in a very specific way. This euphoria is further amplified on those rare occasions where I get to sing one of his songs at karaoke, where I not only sing but also act like Manson (seriously, you guys have got to see it).

Can I continue like this? If I ever get up and rock out to "The Beautiful People" again, will people have a different reaction? Now I feel like I know how Michael Jackson fans felt.

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33 minutes ago, Metropolis said:

Maybe I'm getting old and my memory is going. I just keep thinking to myself that this stuff was common knowledge back in the day. 

Yeah exactly, I think just none spoke out against him, or if they did no one listened. 
 

Considering Reznor’s reaction to him and the f**ked up stuff he wrote in his auto biography, surprised it’s taken this long for him to be called out on it.

But can totally understand your disappointment Zerimar. Always disheartening when you’re a huge fan of someone that ends up being a low life. 

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Change of political climate and me too changes things.   If he did it, he deserves what he gets.  Liked some of his music back in the day, but I didn't like him.  Can't say this is of any surprise. 

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Manson put out a statement saying all of the claims are a distortion of the past and all his sexual partners and proclivities were consensual. But of course he would say that.

Fame fucks people up. Just look at Johnny Depp. Add into it Manson was a pretty complicated dude in the beginning anyways, took A LOT of cocaine and who knows what else..it's a recepie for disaster  really.

As for whether you should listen to his stuff anymore.. well that's up to you. Most of the world's art and music is made by horrific people with all kinds of abhorrent beliefs and behaviours. Admiration and consumption of art is not an endorsement of the person behind it necessarily. But it can be a tricky road to navigate if you have scruples and want to be guilt free. 

 

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His name wasn't meant to glorify the Manson murders, but to signify the dichotomy that is American entertainment. Marilyn Monroe and Charles Manson were the two hot tops the year he was born, so that's how he chose to call himself. It's meant as a commentary on entertainment values.

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27 minutes ago, The Choc said:

Yeah I have no idea. Seems disingenuous to me to name yourself after Charles Manson and then say you aren't glorifying his name. 

He thought it would be badass.  And oh so shocking!  Simple as that.  

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The Sons of Anarchy episode(s) with Manson as a convict butt raping Juice in prison, are almost a microcosm of his current real-world woes, not unlike Kevin Spacey in House of Cards.

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I kind of went through this when Ryan Adams was accused of mistreating women and sexting with a supposedly underage girl.  

I always knew he was a douche and was hard to deal with but after certain allegations come up, I'm hesitant to listen to him music.  He finally released an album that was put on hold for over a year.  Normally I'd be super stoked but I really don't even care to hear it now.  So I kind of see what Zerimar is torn on.  Ryan Adams's songs still show up on some of my playlists, he's a piece of shit but dammit man, he's such a good songwriter. 

.......now I'm waiting for someone to make a Summer Of '69 joke. 

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I tend to stop supporting someone once I know they're horrible, but it doesn't stop me from appreciating their past work.  And if someone pays their debt to society, I'll gove them a second chance. But, for example, I'm not watching any Roman Polanski films because the guy is still committing a crime by avoiding his just punishment for rape. And, yes, I judge people who love his films and I'm not gonna stop judging people for it. But if he had just done his time, I'd fully support his ability to grow.

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Chinatown is still one of my favorite movies, and Manson’s first 3 albums are intrinsically tied to my 20s. I’m not going to cancel them.

I am all for still enjoying monster artist’s works... but you don’t ignore what they did, you make it part of the conversation. Chinatown’s underage sex storyline has an extra facet given what Polanski has done.

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It's so hard to navigate now when so many people are canceled but it all stems from social media posts.  Most of these never lead to any type of criminal conviction, in which case it is more difficult to make a decision on what to think about them.  

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1 hour ago, Jedigoat said:

It's so hard to navigate now when so many people are canceled but it all stems from social media posts.  Most of these never lead to any type of criminal conviction, in which case it is more difficult to make a decision on what to think about them.  

I'll agree with that. Mostly I look to convictions, or at least solid evidence.  On the other hand, it's been pretty obvious Manson was a scumbag from the beginning. Or at least REALLY REALLY wanted people to think he was.

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