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Am I the only one that prefers the OT style fights to the PT style? 

The PT is much more visual striking, but Palpatine shows exactly how stupid it is in RotS. While your opponent is flipping around and pretending they're the Tazmanian Devil, you just stab them and they die. In the OT, there's economy of movement that allows protection from such an obvious method.

The PT Jedi want to show off, but they're so flowery that they're easily killed. 

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man I'd be an awesome jedi

This fits this topic so I just wanna say I love this graphic:  

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I actually like the ST duels best. They seemed to have the more trained and stylized movements of the PT duels, but subdued, and with the more emotional based energy that the OT duels had. Best of both worlds.

The battle in TLJ with Snoke's guards might be one of my favorite duels of the saga.

By the end of the PT all the jumpy flippy nonsense got old, but let's not pretend we weren't all amped the first time we saw Maul vs Qui-Gon / Obi-Wan.

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Just now, Tank said:

I actually like the ST duels best. They seemed to have the more trained and stylized movements of the PT duels, but subdued, and with the more emotional based energy that the OT duels had. Best of both worlds.

The battle in TLJ with Snoke's guards might be one of my favorite duels of the saga.

By the end of the PT all the jumpy flippy nonsense got old, but let's not pretend we weren't all amped the first time we saw Maul vs Qui-Gon / Obi-Wan.

I actually never liked it as much as everyone else did. It was a good moment and actually included good visual storytelling, but I never went for the style even back then.

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I kinda agree with Tank here, the dual on Starkiller and the fight against Snoke's guards are absolutely outstanding. Plus Luke vs Kylo is amazing in it's own right. 

I like all the PT battles though too. 

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52 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

Am I the only one that prefers the OT style fights to the PT style? 

The PT is much more visual striking, but Palpatine shows exactly how stupid it is in RotS. While your opponent is flipping around and pretending they're the Tazmanian Devil, you just stab them and they die. In the OT, there's economy of movement that allows protection from such an obvious method.

The PT Jedi want to show off, but they're so flowery that they're easily killed. 

I for one prefer the OT saber fights to PT and the ST.   To me, they seem closer to the old Hollywood duels seen in Robin Hood or Zorro.  My all time favorite duel has to be Luke VS Vader in TESB, and the second being Luke VS Vader in ROTJ.  Now, I love the Maul VS Obi Wan/Qui Gon, and I think it is the best fight of the PT, but as the PT went on, things got too flashy to be believable.  THe ST duals to me are closer to the PT, but with some OT style thrown in.  I think Rey VS Kylo in TFA is probably my favorite of the ST duels.  

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I think its pretty great storytelling that the Jedi are so showy in the PT. They profess to not want to fight a war but in reality its a chance to show off all they can do, they actually friggin love it. 

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WELL THEN LET'S GET TO RATING!

From best to worst:

1. Red Guard vs Kylo vs Rey (TLJ) - the most dynamic of the duels. Visually amazing, has great emotional turns. Starts with Kyo and Rey working togerther, but then they turn on each other. Best of all worlds.

2. Luke vs Vader (ESB) - Probably equal to #1. You have all the emotional content of Luke seemingly confronting the monster that killed his father, only to find out the monster IS his father. Add in some decent choreography, and a really cool multi-levelled set with great lighting. Also a visual treat.

3. Luke vs Vader (ROTJ) - emotionally, it's the climax of both Luke and Vader's stories. That puts it in the top. Seeing Luke come back like a boss after Vader schooled him was always cool. Really, even as a kid, my only complaint was that compared to ESB it was a lot shorter and the throne room was limited in scope.

4. Luke vs Kylo (TLJ) - veery brief obviously, but it had that old school samurai showdown feel to it-- where it would be determined in short order. Plus, Luke was just bad ass and Kyo was peak Kylo.

5. Qui-gon/Obi-Wan vs Maul (TPM) - Overly showy, yes. A lot of iffy greenscreen work, yes. But like I said above, the first time I saw it, I lost my mind.

6. Rey vs Kylo (TROS) - Even though the movie was trash, and as a result a lot of the emotional content was lost, the visuals alone of this fight were really unique and cool compared to all duels before it.

7. Rey/Finn vs Kylo (TFA) - Packed with emotion, and a fresh reset from the PT duels, it works well, especially the symbolism at the end.

8. Anakin vs Obi-Wan (ROTS) - Possibly the best moment of all the PT, certainly the moment we were all waiting for decades to see. If the PT emotional content had been better written, this could have been amazing. A few too many twirls and flips, and of course the lava surfing and HIGH GROUND finish tarnish it. But the movement and verticality are pretty awesome. Intended to be the most epic battle, it certainly delivers.

9. Obi-Wan vs Vader (ANH) - Probably the worst of all the duels in terms of the physicality. The choreography was stiff and unimaginative-- no doubt hindered by the fact that in ANH alone, there was a practical lighting effect on the lightsaber blades that kept them from making full contact, and Prowse's stunt double did not have a specific suit built for him/thie fight, this thing is a clunker. That said it is saved by the dialog and emotional content.

10. Anakin/Obi-Wan vs Dooku (ROTS) - It's there.

11. Anakin/Obi-Wan vs Dooku vs Yoda (AOTC) - Also just there. Seeing Yoda go all flippy for the first time was cool upon first viewing, but kinda dumb after.

12. Obi-Wan vs Grevious (ROTS) - I hated the Grevious storyline so much, by the time they got to this, and the fact Obi-Wan has to resort to shooting him makes this one dumb.

13. Sidious/Palpatine vs Yoda (ROTS) - This one was stupid for multiple reasons. Yoda being jumpy and flippy was just too much this time. Palpy's terrible CGI double was no good. And narratively, they basically established that Yoda could have ended the Empire right then and there but retreated because he fell? Stupid.

Honorable mentions-- the final showdown between Obi-Wan and Maul on Rebels. The cartoons had countless duels that were cool, but this one was tops. Much like Luke vs Kylo, it had a very samurai approach. 

Also, the mega duel between Kanan, Ezra, Ahsoka, The Inquisitors, Maul, and Vader on Rebels. It was broken down into bits, but really cool. It's culmination of Vader vs Ahsoka, and her realizing who he is was amazing.

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I actually very much agree with the spirit of your list. I could tinker with the order a bit but my top 5 would be the same as yours. Id move up TFA duel a spot. Honestly TROS fight I just haven;t seen enough. LIke you said it just feels emotionally hollow. It really should be the climactic showdown at the end and its just not.  Plus the fact that they spar earlier in the movie just kinda takes away from it. 

Really the throne room sequence from the start in the elevator with Kylo and Rey each seeing the future and interpreting it through their own lenses right through when the saber breaks during Holdo's maneuever, the scenes in the throne room there are my favorite sequence in the whole saga. 

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32 minutes ago, The Choc said:

I think its pretty great storytelling that the Jedi are so showy in the PT. They profess to not want to fight a war but in reality its a chance to show off all they can do, they actually friggin love it. 

Yeah, that could be indicative of hubris.  Jedi being proud, is one of the worst things for a Jedi to do, because it goes against what a Jedi is supposed to be. 

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its like 2/3 of the way through the movie, Rey defeats him and then is still so far from the darkside she uses her power to heal him and save his life. Then at that point for some reason she decides her powers are too dangerous and goes to isolate herself. 

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Yeah the issue I have with the ST duels is not from a technical level. They are good.  But Rey is like 3 and 0 with Kylo.  It's like he didn't really pose a threat to Rey after TFA, so it doesn't have the emotional impact for me, as Luke VS Vader in TESB.  

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Are we taking style or choreography?  Qui- Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul was beautifully staged. Everything after that was just boring excess. I think the only duel of the ST worth anything was Ren and Rey versus Snoke's guard. The OT battles stand out because they were one meaningful, and two rare. There were four of you include the sail barge.

 

 

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Well I mean she doesnt really fight him in TLJ, so I guess 2-0 LOL. Really though the ST is just about the same being about Kylo as about Rey. Considering Kylo is the bad guy he is the one obsessed with his power and gaining more and more power. So looking back I think it makes sense that hed lose in TFA and then feel he needs to gain more power. Rather than Rey whose journey is more about belonging.

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7 minutes ago, Metropolis said:

Are we taking style or choreography?  Qui- Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul was beautifully staged. Everything after that was just boring excess. I think the only duel of the ST worth anything was Ren and Rey versus Snoke's guard. The OT battles stand out because they were one meaningful, and two rare. There were four of you include the sail barge.

 

 

Totally agree. 

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1 hour ago, Tank said:

WELL THEN LET'S GET TO RATING!

From best to worst:

 

4. Luke vs Kylo (TLJ) - veery brief obviously, but it had that old school samurai showdown feel to it-- where it would be determined in short order. Plus, Luke was just bad ass and Kyo was peak Kylo.

 

Luke showing up and looking and acting like every single cliche of the Jedi that Kylo has built up in his own mind and hates so much is just so brilliant. The restraint Johnson showed with his 2 big saber showdowns always astounds me. How easy would it have been to have Rey and Kylo give us another few minutes fighting each other in the Throne Room rather than just struggle for the saber? How easy would it have been to have Luke actually show up and have a fight with Kylo and Kylo kills him? Very easy. How much better is it in retrospect without either of those things? A whole hell of a lot. 

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The only thing I don't like in the Snoke's guards lightsaber fight is the guards all wait to make their attacks until kylo or Rey are ready.  It takes me out of it, but otherwise, the drama and tension of the scene is amazing.  And the cinematography is great there, too. 

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My ranks, counting only Force users (Jedi and Sith). Duels against General Grievous, Magna Guards, wampas, etc. are not included as I don't view them as true Jedi duels:

1. Cloud City duel: Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader (The Empire Strikes Back)
2. Death Star II duel: Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader (Return of the Jedi)
3. Mustafar duel: Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Darth Vader, aka "The Duel" (Revenge of the Sith)
4. Theed duel: Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Darth Maul, aka "The Duel of the Fates" (The Phantom Menace)
5. Invisible Hand duel: Obi-Wan Kenobi & Anakin Skywalker vs. Darth Tyrannus (Revenge of the Sith)
6. Geonosis Duel, round 1: Obi-Wan Kenobi & Anakin Skywalker vs. Darth Tyrannus (Attack of the Clones)
7. Senate Rotunda Duel: Yoda vs. Darth Sidious (Revenge of the Sith).
8. Geonosis Duel, round 2: Yoda vs. Darth Tyrannus (Attack of the Clones)
9. 500 Republica Duel: Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Saesie Tinn, & Agen Kolar vs. Darth Sidious (Revenge of the Sith)
10. Death Star Duel: Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Darth Vader (A New Hope; sorry, I know it's the original, but this one blows)

I think that covers all of them.

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6 hours ago, Jedigoat said:

The only thing I don't like in the Snoke's guards lightsaber fight is the guards all wait to make their attacks until kylo or Rey are ready.  It takes me out of it, but otherwise, the drama and tension of the scene is amazing.  And the cinematography is great there, too. 

Yeah, I feel the same way, which is why I am not that into that duel.  My other issue is I don't have any emotional investment in that duel.  It is well-choreographed, but it feels too much like a PT duel to me.  

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1 hour ago, Zathras said:

Yeah, I feel the same way, which is why I am not that into that duel.  My other issue is I don't have any emotional investment in that duel.  It is well-choreographed, but it feels too much like a PT duel to me.  

On an emotional level, I was loving it.   Great conflict and tension.  And the set was impressive as well.  But some of the guards are nearly standing there waiting to make their move.  

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My thoughts allign pretty closely to Tank Driver's. 

I like the OT duels more than the PT cause the PT duels suck and are like watching the Nutcracker or something. The OT duels seem the most closely to resemble real world fencing/kendo. The Obi/Vader dual particularly where there is more time staring each other down than striking seems quite realistic. But the ST wins hands down for a balance of cinematic action, realism and emotional feel. It's more kinetic too cause the effects are much better. 

Fuck ranking duels though I don't have time for that. But I think it'd be the same as Tanks list but I'd swap the position of ESB/ROTJ duels. ROTJ gives me goose bumps when luke screams Noooooo! And just rails on Vader smashing him into the ground. Fuck that's a great scene. Who hasn't wanted to do that to their absentee father at least once in their life?

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