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Greetings, folks!

So I got another job recently for a vehicular service contract company. The people are nice and helpful (and all over 30 and therefore mature) and I'm working from home, which is great. It is, however, another sales job, and if you recall from a past post, I'm getting burned out on sales, even though my resume is impressive and I seem like a desired employee.

I've figured out what I'd like to shift to: IT. I love computers, and IT guys seem to make great money, have flexible schedules, and generally love what they do. My local community college offers several IT certification programs, including an Associate's degree, which would probably be ideal.

However, I also have strong desires for personal enrichment.I have wanted to study Ancient Greek for years, and this online Ancient Languages Institute offers classes in both Attic and Koine Greek (and Latin as well). Koine Greek would be advantageous for me personally because then I will finally be able to study the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures in the original tongue, as well as the writings of the Church Fathers and other such things that will also serve to make me more useful to the Church. Attic Greek, on the other hand, will open the door to ancient Greek writings such as Homer and other mythological tales, as well as the writings of the ancient philosophers and other invaluable things that are important to me personally as part of my proud heritage as a Greek.

On top of that, there is yet another online institute that teaches Byzantine Chant, the beautiful (and complex) musical system of the Greek Orthodox Church. This will enable me to become a cantor and become useful to the Church in that capacity as well.

I don't know how to prioritize these desires, and I worry that to study everything I want to study may take the rest of my life. Firstly, I'm not sure if I want to go for Attic or Koine Greek, or possibly both (though the one may make learning the other a bit easier), and although the chanting courses are taught in English, I feel I'd be missing the heart of chanting for the Church without having a good grasp on the language the hymns were written in and often translated from. (Not to mention that it'll undoubtedly help my modern Greek, which is okay but could be better.) Plus the IT thing so I can make a career change.

Any advice? Thanks.

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I'm going to give you a minute to think about what you said there.   ...   ... yeah, I'm the only one who's going to get it, I'm the only one with a Classical education here that I know of - Hebrew is

I gotcha. No no, your advice was well received and appreciated.

Glad to hear my advice is useful in some way.   Also, one other thing to consider is this. Whenever I hear someone say something like " Working in IT must be rad, because that person seems happy," I

I would say put all of your energy into your career. You're still at a point where you can change, but you have your entire life for personal enrichment.

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I'd rethink the IT career path. If you like working on hardware, especially. That is a dying industry, because hardware comes cheap these days. It's basically like being a TV repairman, now. I'm speaking from experience. ITis the least appreciated, over worked, people don't value your accomplishments because they don't understand what you do, constantly bitch at you about things that are out of your control, you have to constantly study because the industry changes so fast, and I think it is one of the most stressful jobs. If you are set on getting into IT and want to disregard this advice, understand that "IT" or working on "computers" is such a broad term. Things are very specialized. What do you want? Network admin? Software of application development? Hardware support? Cyber security? Photo and video editing and rendering? I am in tech support, basically level 2 which means PC repair some networking and some coding (EG active directory, SCCM software deployment and queries, etc), in addition to classroom and conference room technology support and every little nagging thing Luddites come to you for. I hate it. I am just biding my time until I retire, or finish MY career change, whichever comes first.

 

Personal enrichment....eh, been there, done that, too. I have several useless degrees or certifications, in history, museum studies and interdisciplinary studies. History? Read a book, and save your money. Zoomers especially don't give a F*** about history. Ditto on museums. Dead languages are even more useless. Learn Mandarin Chinese if you want to challenge yourself. There's at least a practical application for that.

 

If you want a career change, and you have a bachelors, go for an MBA. Don't be a peon like I have been for about 2 decades. Took me 20 years to figure that out.

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However, I also have strong desires for personal enrichment.I have wanted to study Ancient Greek for years, and this online Ancient Languages Institute offers classes in both Attic and Koine Greek (and Latin as well). Koine Greek would be advantageous for me personally because then I will finally be able to study the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures in the original tongue,

 

I'm going to give you a minute to think about what you said there.

 

...

 

... yeah, I'm the only one who's going to get it, I'm the only one with a Classical education here that I know of - Hebrew is it's own language. As someone who has studied both, the only similarities between them is that they have nouns, verbs, and adjectives. Studying Koine will get you the New Testament. You need Hebrew and Aramaic to read the Old Testament in the original.

 

As someone who has a degree in Classical Languages - if you want to learn Koine (you'll actually start with Attic Greek and move on to Koine, if you're doing it the way I was taught in university), and Hebrew, and Aramaic, and Latin, it's a very rewarding and enriching experience! But it's something most people take 4-12 years of their life in deep scholarship of, doing nothing else. The people I went to school with who took that path are university professors in Divinity now. I'd say, if you want to do it, you're either going to want to study it casually in your free time for your own personal benefit, or you're going to want to think about making your career in the Church.

 

Also, studying ancient Greek will not help your modern Greek at all, just trust me on this, I have personal experience.

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Reading my post back, it does read rather strangely, chiefly because I chose the term "Hebrew Scriptures" over "Old Testament," likely evoking the image of actual Hebrew text rather than the entity itself. Allow me to explain myself.

The Septuagint (the second-century B.C. Alexandrian Greek translation of the Old Testament) is older than the extant Hebrew texts that exist in their entirety, especially the Masoretic Text, which was produced closer to the beginning of the second millennium A.D. rather than the first. Older Hebrew fragments do exist, and they overwhelmingly support the wording of the Greek Septuagint rather than the Hebrew Masoretic. It is a curious note in history that, since the time of the King James Bible, so many translations have elected to use the reconstructed Masoretic Text as their primary source--replete with its anti-Christian deconstructions--rather than the Septuagint. I do agree, however, that Hebrew and Aramaic would be largely helpful, and that the Masoretic Text is useful for comparison purposes if nothing else. The Septuagint, however, is far more reliable, as most more knowledgeable scholars know, especially as preserved within the Byzantine Version along with the New Testament.

Zathras: Wow. That sucks. Well, then, I honestly have no idea what I want to do with my life or what my passion is, at least not one that pays the bills. I never finished my bachelor's degree. And it's about more than just reading a history book: I want to be intimately familiar with the original languages, for my own sake as well as being useful to the Church.

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Well shit man, if you want to challenge yourself, finish your bachelors! Maybe transfer what credit you do have in global business, or some other leadership-oriented major.

 

Look, I am honestly trying to give you some practical advice. I am not trying to pee in your corn flakes, but If I could talk to 20something me, I would be telling me the same things I am recommending to you.

 

Enrichment stuff like studying languages can be done on the side, so if it is something you REALLY want to do, go for it. But you can do self-study, don't pay to do that, because it is definitely not worth the money.

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Glad to hear my advice is useful in some way.

 

Also, one other thing to consider is this. Whenever I hear someone say something like " Working in IT must be rad, because that person seems happy," I want to say, " that's because part of what we do, in fact one can argue the PRIMARY thing we do, is customer service. " IT professionals,if they are professional at all, have to project confidence, and assure the customer their problem is going to be taken care of. No one wants to call on the grumpy IT guy that calls them up and says "Well, shit, I've never seen that before. I have no clue where to start on that! WTF virus did you download anyway? Must have been either your gay porn site, or you emailing the Nigerian Prince and giving your credit card info, again!"

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Do you have any specific idea of what you would like to do in IT? I mean, like Zathras said, thats a pretty big umbrella. With your background and a general interest in IT, you seem like you could be a good fit for some type of business analyst position, you just need some formal education to get you there.

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You have to ask yourself this: Do you dislike sales so much that you simply cannot do it. Or can you say "hey I don't live this job but the income I make from it allows me to do other things that I do love". If your dislike for the job is so much that you can't see yourself doing it, then you have to figure something else out. All the other stuff like learning more history or learning dead languages is just a hobby. Nothing wrong with it but you need to figure out how you are going to support yourself long term in a job you can stomach before you worry about spending money and time on hobbies.

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Do you have any specific idea of what you would like to do in IT? I mean, like Zathras said, thats a pretty big umbrella. With your background and a general interest in IT, you seem like you could be a good fit for some type of business analyst position, you just need some formal education to get you there.

Yeah, I agree with that. Especially if you intend to finish a bachelors degree, business analytics is often part of leadership-oriented degrees. Business leaders often rely on machine learning, or even being proficient in applications like SPSS or SAS. If your past experience can be helpful in changing your career path, use that to help you guide yourself into a new career.

 

 

You have to ask yourself this: Do you dislike sales so much that you simply cannot do it. Or can you say "hey I don't live this job but the income I make from it allows me to do other things that I do love". If your dislike for the job is so much that you can't see yourself doing it, then you have to figure something else out. All the other stuff like learning more history or learning dead languages is just a hobby. Nothing wrong with it but you need to figure out how you are going to support yourself long term in a job you can stomach before you worry about spending money and time on hobbies.

There is truth to this, too. Nothing wrong in seeking knowledge, but I would prioritize that knowledge in a way that can help you change your life. History, humanities, art, language and culture are worth while to explore, but they are also luxuries. If you want to get out of sales, for example, I think you should build on your past experience and decide what career path you want, first. Honestly, learning dead languages and/or about history is just a form of mental masturbation that does little to change your life. You can't do much with that except teach it, and demand is low. Society does not value that. In fact, I would say that Gen Z is openly hostile to all that, making demand of a faculty member teaching all that, even less in demand.

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One other thing...when you are looking for a career path, you have to be absolutely honest with yourself when it comes to aptitude for the career you are going for, and also research the future potential for growth in that field. I will use myself as an example. When I was beginning my undergrad work many years ago I started out as a history major, but decided I needed to get real about the prospects of that degree. So decided on technology, I gravitated towards the electronics and hardware side of things, and avoided software development and scripting. It takes a certain kind of personality to be willing to sit in a cubicle day in and day out, typing out lines and lines of code, and troubleshooting for errors. I hated the idea of that! So I received 2 AAS degrees, one in PC repair, one in electronics. I went on to an applied science bachelors degree that allowed me to get hands on experience applying what I learned with my AAS degrees. Now, once I had my first Bachelors, I decided that I would do one more year in school, and earn a BA in history (which has done exactly jack shit for me, other than allowing me to pat myself on the back for it). But, my internship in my first bachelor degree led to a tech job.

 

So I threw myself into PC repair and networking, and for a time I was content. But as technology started to advance and become more reliable and cheaper, the hardware side of things really just started to become less and less important. Fast forward about 10 years, and I found that if I wanted to even just stay relevant in my field, let alone progress, I HAD to learn scripting. There was no way around it. But I was in my late 30s/early 40s by then. Scripting and programming never really clicked with me. It literally is a language. I can do what I need to do, and have a little power shell and C++ knowledge to get by, but this was not the direction I wanted to go in, and it ended up being forced on me, anyway.

 

So, I started hating my job, because both customer service and scripting became the forefront of my job. Now, customer service is something I don't mind doing, because I really do empathize with people having computer issues, and I genuinely want to help them. I get satisfaction helping them, in fact. But there is a lot of negative that goes with that too, and it can be mentally tiring at times. So I decided I wanted to do a career change.

 

That is when I went to grad school. My Mom had recently passed away, and I needed to do SOMETHING to get my mind off my grief. My mom had always wanted to get into archeology, and had always told me I should go for a grad degree in history or anthropology or some related field. I promised her I would, but she died before she could see me do that. So, when I decided I wanted to earn an interdisciplinary MA, with a focus on museum studies, I thought cool. Something I could feel was fulfilling a promise to my Mom, as well as something I was (at the time) passionate about. I focused on Native American culture and had dreams of becoming either an exhibit designer for a cultural-oriented museum with the idea of incorporating technology into exhibits (still using some of my past experience, along with what I was learning), or become an archivist or curator, that could help repatriate stolen artifacts back to native people . I had fun learning and internships, and even had a part time job at a couple museums. But after being in that industry, I realized there is no real future in museums. The pay is low,and you are always in danger of losing funding. Plus, it is a world that is very political, with work environments that have a subtle yet distinct hostility that can be described as akin to a sewing circle. Here I was some CIS white male who mostly worked around machines and was previously in the military, working in a field where it is dominated by women, who would often gossip about one another, and I can only imagine what was said about me when I wasn't there. I don't want to know, actually. In fact, the museums I worked at, I was the ONLY guy. Now, everyone was nice and I considered them my friends, and I had no problems whatsoever, but I was never really given any opportunities to work as a museum professional, either, because I didn't quite fit in...in a fish out of water kind of way. There were nuances I didn't grasp. Plus, I was useful right where I was. Whenever I was asked to do something, it was always tech related, because museums rarely had a dedicated tech, at least the museums I worked in. While the work I did was appreciated by my fellow employees, I really just wanted to learn about cataloguing collections, researching unknown artifacts, or the other job duties for a curator or archivist. So, there's another career bust for you.

 

It's a good thing I didn't quit my day job though, because through all that, I kept my tech job. I ended up being transferred to a different college, which was a lot better, but still, the field of work is something I want to change from. Recently, I decided I would go back to school yet again, but hopefully this time, it will work out, as I am working towards a leadership/management role. I like to think I still have a few marbles rattling around in my head that can be put to good use, and hope i can progress to a leadership role at some point. Hell, maybe one day when I am retired and set for life, and am in a position where I can get back into the museum industry without worrying so much about making a living, but for the fun of it, I will. But for now, I have to make a career change that will yield the kind of perpetual cash flow that will allow for that!

 

I am sorry for the long ramble folks, and I sincerely hope that helps you, ZM, or others in some way.

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It does. Thank you for sharing your story, Zathras. It really is tricky out there, but at least you knew what you wanted to do. I have no idea. From age eleven to about twenty, I was sure I wanted to be a priest. I was so dedicated to the idea that I chose what college I wanted to go to (the seminary) while only in ninth grade, despite my principal at the time guaranteeing me I would change my mind several times between then and senior year, and I went to that college for but a semester. Even after screwing up and flunking out (my study habits were abysmal at the time), I was still determined to get back on the horse for years after.

Once that dream faded away, I have had no real direction ever since. Interests have come and gone, but nothing ever sticks. There's nothing I'm passionate about aside from the Church still, though I don't know if I am cut out to be a priest. I'm not sure in what other capacity I can serve the Church that will pay the bills, so I've got to find something that I love doing that will make me money.

To answer Choc's question, I don't actually hate sales, but I don't love it either. I can do it, and I do receive satisfaction from it when I'm doing well; but my soul isn't there. When I get into a rut, it is extremely difficult for me to pull myself out and hustle once again, which is why I lost my last job (plus the fact that the environment was ridiculous for someone of my age). I guess sticking with it while trying to get an education wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

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The other advice I would give is, when you have the spare money, pay someone to do your resume for you. While youre waiting for school, take some online courses for free/cheap from some organization. Ive done Udemy courses and a free month of LinkedIn Premium to do some LinkedIn Learning classes. That has opened up huge doors for me.

 

Ive also been in a single field for a decade, so that helps, but Im being considered for jobs that pay a ton more and more accurately match my knowledge and skills, even though I also do not have a degree.

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Edx is another good free/low cost learning resource, too.

 

Also, ZM, I say more often than not people DON'T know what to do as a career. That describes me, to a "T." Oftentimes, they fall into something that clicks, but rare is it that someone knows exactly what they want to do as a career when they are very young, and actually do that career later in life. I also think it is absolutely OKAY to have multiple, unrelated careers in life.

 

Anecdotal, and totally just my opinion, folks who are parents seem to have things in life come into focus sooner. If for no other reason than to support their family. It's not a right/wrong thing, just something I think is human nature (necessity forces it). I never had that because I don't have kids, so I think that took me longer to figure out a career.

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Its cool. Im 40, I have three kids, Im the sole income, and I still dont know what I want to do. Or have the time/energy to make it happen.

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I'd rethink the IT career path. If you like working on hardware, especially. That is a dying industry, because hardware comes cheap these days. It's basically like being a TV repairman, now. I'm speaking from experience. ITis the least appreciated, over worked, people don't value your accomplishments because they don't understand what you do, constantly bitch at you about things that are out of your control, you have to constantly study because the industry changes so fast, and I think it is one of the most stressful jobs. If you are set on getting into IT and want to disregard this advice, understand that "IT" or working on "computers" is such a broad term. Things are very specialized. What do you want? Network admin? Software of application development? Hardware support? Cyber security? Photo and video editing and rendering? I am in tech support, basically level 2 which means PC repair some networking and some coding (EG active directory, SCCM software deployment and queries, etc), in addition to classroom and conference room technology support and every little nagging thing Luddites come to you for. I hate it. I am just biding my time until I retire, or finish MY career change, whichever comes first.

 

Personal enrichment....eh, been there, done that, too. I have several useless degrees or certifications, in history, museum studies and interdisciplinary studies. History? Read a book, and save your money. Zoomers especially don't give a F*** about history. Ditto on museums. Dead languages are even more useless. Learn Mandarin Chinese if you want to challenge yourself. There's at least a practical application for that.

 

If you want a career change, and you have a bachelors, go for an MBA. Don't be a peon like I have been for about 2 decades. Took me 20 years to figure that out.

This.

 

I pay my school's computer tech $12-$13/ hour and that position also has lunch and recess supervision duty. Last year he got hit in the head with a sandwich. I had plenty of people with a similar education you want apply for the position when the economy was strong. So there's that.

 

If you want to make a difference in lives AND never want to worry about not having a decent job for the rest of your life (given you are at least a competent worker), get a degree in special education and become a special education teacher or education and be a middle school math or science teacher.

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Reading my post back, it does read rather strangely, chiefly because I chose the term "Hebrew Scriptures" over "Old Testament," likely evoking the image of actual Hebrew text rather than the entity itself. Allow me to explain myself.

 

The Septuagint (the second-century B.C. Alexandrian Greek translation of the Old Testament) is older than the extant Hebrew texts that exist in their entirety, especially the Masoretic Text, which was produced closer to the beginning of the second millennium A.D. rather than the first. Older Hebrew fragments do exist, and they overwhelmingly support the wording of the Greek Septuagint rather than the Hebrew Masoretic. It is a curious note in history that, since the time of the King James Bible, so many translations have elected to use the reconstructed Masoretic Text as their primary source--replete with its anti-Christian deconstructions--rather than the Septuagint. I do agree, however, that Hebrew and Aramaic would be largely helpful, and that the Masoretic Text is useful for comparison purposes if nothing else. The Septuagint, however, is far more reliable, as most more knowledgeable scholars know, especially as preserved within the Byzantine Version along with the New Testament.

 

 

I have a friend who's PhD studies were on one single use of the gerundive in a very small verse in one of Paul's writings. Translating this gerundive has been debated for centuries, and no one can agree on what Paul meant by it. Any and all translations are technically correct based on the vocabulary and grammar of the line, but they all give the passage far different meaning.

 

This is how you read a text in a dead language - you block out the sentence, consult your grammar book, consult your dictionary and play with all of the meaning options, read a few commentaries previous translators left, and come up with your own thing that may or may not capture what the author was trying to say. And then do it all over again with the next sentence until you finish the text. There is SO much ambiguity in the translation game, when you can't consult the original author.

 

Now, the Septuagint was translated by people who had a very firm scholastic grasp of the language they were translating, but it was not their mother tongue, and they were living in a culture removed from the document's writing and intended use by centuries and geography. So, do those older Hebrew fragments that overwhelmingly support the Septuagint's translation really support it, or are all the scholars making that determination simply on the same page? And why are they on the same page?

 

You said in your first post that you want to learn Koine to be more useful to your church. I'm having a hard time trying to understand how one man learning Koine so he can read the Septuagint for himself in Greek would truly help your church, for the reasons above. If you want to do it, do it for your own personal edification. But your priest and church elders will generally not care if you decide to read the Bible in Greek beyond thinking it's cool you took on a hobby to bring you closer to your faith. Again, if the point of this is to be useful to your church, it sounds like Byzantine chant would be the better hobby to take up. But if the point is to learn something new and have fun, go nuts.

 

I'd also recommend finding an in-person class. I thoroughly enjoyed the rigors of translation, but I enjoyed the lasting friendships I made more.

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Reading my post back, it does read rather strangely, chiefly because I chose the term "Hebrew Scriptures" over "Old Testament," likely evoking the image of actual Hebrew text rather than the entity itself. Allow me to explain myself.

 

The Septuagint (the second-century B.C. Alexandrian Greek translation of the Old Testament) is older than the extant Hebrew texts that exist in their entirety, especially the Masoretic Text, which was produced closer to the beginning of the second millennium A.D. rather than the first. Older Hebrew fragments do exist, and they overwhelmingly support the wording of the Greek Septuagint rather than the Hebrew Masoretic. It is a curious note in history that, since the time of the King James Bible, so many translations have elected to use the reconstructed Masoretic Text as their primary source--replete with its anti-Christian deconstructions--rather than the Septuagint. I do agree, however, that Hebrew and Aramaic would be largely helpful, and that the Masoretic Text is useful for comparison purposes if nothing else. The Septuagint, however, is far more reliable, as most more knowledgeable scholars know, especially as preserved within the Byzantine Version along with the New Testament.

 

Zathras: Wow. That sucks. Well, then, I honestly have no idea what I want to do with my life or what my passion is, at least not one that pays the bills. I never finished my bachelor's degree. And it's about more than just reading a history book: I want to be intimately familiar with the original languages, for my own sake as well as being useful to the Church.

New advice on an old problem - this is exactly your problem with women. This right here.

 

Did you actually just mansplain her own degree to her?!?

 

It used to be that you could get away with this shit if you found a young enough woman, but those days are over, bro. You're looking 20 years in the wrong direction. Maybe some older broad will be awed by this crap, but nobody under 50 will be.

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I was wondering why I came in to say I have a degree in the very thing he wants to pursue, and I got lectured on and not asked for further advice on something he'd like to study but hasn't.

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I wrote that post knowing full well that Iceheart was likely familiar with the Septuagint. My posts are written with a communal mindset, mainly addressed at the person I'm speaking to but also for the benefit of everyone in the thread. It's how I've always posted on message boards, much like a group discussion.

And Cerina, it's an awfully low blow to be bringing up stuff that is irrelevant to the conversation, insulting, and mischaracterized. If you have nothing constructive to offer, kindly leave me alone.

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And Cerina, it's an awfully low blow to be bringing up stuff that is irrelevant to the conversation, insulting, and mischaracterized. If you have nothing constructive to offer, kindly leave me alone.

 

You do realize this is the way you respond whenever a woman gives you any advice on these boards?

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