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During the 50s-70s the US saw an unprecedented spending in these areas (in white neighborhoods) because we were so scared of the Russians. Tax rates of the top 1% was near near 70-80% at this time. Economic mobility was exceptional (if you were white). And now all of those people are retiring and many are saying, "**** you I got mine". I think that is the problem.

Yep. But honestly, not even the retirees. I get so mad every time I see a new school bond go up and all of the arguing about why they don't care so they shouldn't have to pay for it. Our district has some of the lowest property taxes in the area because we can't pass a bond to save our lives because of cheap ***holes. I am saving for private high school because we need another high school so badly but can't get one built because of nonsense like this. We also need at least 2 more elementary schools.

 

I get a kick out of, "I don't have kids, why should I pay" as if you don't benefit from a well-educated population. At the very least, property values go up.

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I specifically say "system" because I honestly believe that the issues are too widespread to pinpoint. It's all of it. Together. It's funding issues like everything Ender just listed. It's our testing culture. It's the fact that so many of these policies and laws are enacted by politicians and NOT educators. It's the general American attitude toward education - mainly that it's something that's done to children as opposed to something that requires active participation by students and parents alike. It's the corporate greed that leaves our society so economically split that schools have to be a literal lifeline for many families thereby splitting focus and funds even further. And then, of course, there's the general dumbing down and anti-intellectualism.

Also, have y'all heard my rant about the SATs??

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Theres actually still plenty of real journalism, you just dont see it because people are constantly sharing opinion pieces and thinking its news, and the algorithms know thats what youll actually click on.

Ugh, machine learning. Thanks, Skynet.

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I specifically say "system" because I honestly believe that the issues are too widespread to pinpoint. It's all of it. Together. It's funding issues like everything Ender just listed. It's our testing culture. It's the fact that so many of these policies and laws are enacted by politicians and NOT educators. It's the general American attitude toward education - mainly that it's something that's done to children as opposed to something that requires active participation by students and parents alike. It's the corporate greed that leaves our society so economically split that schools have to be a literal lifeline for many families thereby splitting focus and funds even further. And then, of course, there's the general dumbing down and anti-intellectualism.

 

Also, have y'all heard my rant about the SATs??

Agreed 100%...the only small disagreement we have (which might just be semantics) is that it is HIGH STAKES SUMMATIVE testing that is the issue. I personally don't think we do enough formative assessments.

 

I think I have, but I would love to hear it. Is it something like they are biased towards people in a higher socio-economic class and only perpetuate systemic issues, colleges place too much emphasis on how one student scored on one specific day, and do not truly reflect student knowledge and more importantly growth? If so, I agree! Students are not data, schools should judge a student holistically. The only push back is that it allows students that under-performed in high school for whatever reason to stand out. I had a 2.2 and the ACT saved me.

 

Anyways...fake news...I wrote about my mom and her husband visting in the Cantina, but basically what I hate is that they believe everything on Facebook or the super far-right propaganda they listen to, but when I bring something up, they want to know sources and such. I am more than HAPPY to oblige...it keeps me honest....but I just wish they applied the same level of rigor to their own arguments.

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Yes, I think we're on the same page about testing. I'm not opposed to assessment in general. It's when test scores become so universally important that test prep supersedes actual learning that's the problem.

And yeah...same for the SAT. Especially the part about colleges placing too much emphasis on the scores. But at the same time, the test itself also feels dumbed down. I scored fairly well on the SAT back in 99, but I'm more positive that I would have almost aced it if I had been given this version instead.

 

I may just be bitter all around though.

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I hate the the news outlets. All of them. They are all doing their best to tear us to pieces, and succeeding.

 

https://essenceofwonder.com/2020/05/23/show-notes-for-episode-6-countering-fake-news/

All of them in the entire world? That's the broadest brush anyone's ever painted with. Fake news is not news you don't like. Stop helping Fat Donnie take down the US media because you don't like vetting for accuracy

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Yeah, all journalism now is op ed and yellow journalism.

It's like there is no such thing as critical thinking going on anymore in the US.

 

That's because of the internet. The minute we gave every person with a modem a voice as public as any professional broadcasters', the audience has been splintered. In order to gather any meaningful market share, information networks had to fight fire with fire and start setting up camps in ideaologies. I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to understand this. Too many take this move as something nefarious and meaningful when it's just as media ever were-ratings are the goal. ABC isn't trying to control anyone's mind. PBS is not funded by Soros. And I have to say, Trump has been brilliant, once again, in getting not only his base to jump on this bandwagon, but now everyone. There are people in this thread who are using the term 'fake news' without a hint of irony. THAT's talent-to get such a huge piece of the voting public to put a dent in one of the institutions that has been in place since the nation's birth when a good many of those parroting it don't really even believe what they're saying

 

 

 

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Darth Ender- Thanks a lot, you put my fact into context and complicated the hell out of things. Reminds me of an Edward R. Murrow quote, "Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation." Wish he was still alive, he had a lot to say about the topic of this thread in his day.

 

Monkeygirl- I certainly painted with too broad a brush, I've never been that good at coloring inside the lines, though I think any lawyer would disagree with "broadest brush anyone's ever painted with" considering the hate they get. I was referring to the national outlets primarily. I have a lot more trust and respect for local news outlets, and even the national ones can do some good reporting occasionally, on the few issues that haven't become politically polarized.

 

But don't try to pretend this is a new issue that started when the Clown in Chief took his throne. You act like the press is an institution everyone respected until Trump came along, half the "news" today would have ended in a duel 200 years ago. Benjamin Franklin would be horrified by what his profession has devolved into, he wasn't that impressed with it by the time he died. He certainly would support Trump's right to use his verbal cudgel (or maybe even a real one) in reply to these "journalists".

 

https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_speechs16.html

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No, the news media was pretty generally well respected in most circles before 2016. Opinions were what caught criticism, for instance, that CNN and MSNBC's opinion shows were too liberal for conservatives, and Fox News was too conservative for liberals. But generally everyone trusted the actual news content and reporting until Trump started his Fake News campaign against any news he just didn't like.

 

Now, the media sure did have its own problems before then, mostly things like a severe decline in print media (despite all the ads you get online, all the money is in print media, so that's really bad for journalists who want to make an actual living reporting the news, and that's why all the best sources are behind subscription firewalls that get tighter and tighter all the time. Which means that journalists get to eat, but it also means people who can't afford multiple subscriptions turn to sketchier free sources), but it wasn't until the 2016 election news cycle and the later analysis when we really started to question the quality and objectivity of the reporting. News sources turning sensational to draw in readers (aka $$) combined with a President who gaslights the nation regularly to make himself look better has brought us, and very quickly, to this place of mistrust.

 

My receipts for this take? I worked for a publishing company from 2014-2019.

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Public confidence in news outlets has been on a steady decline since the 70s. It took a major drop during and after the 2016 election cycle, but I think that has more to do with the media's reaction to Trump than anything Trump has done. They want to be respected like Cronkite, but they act like Limbaugh at his worst.

 

Take the collusion hoax. Lots of us knew it was bogus from the beginning, including the people investigating it and reporting on it. Now we know (from hearing transcripts) that there was never any proof that anyone even hacked the DNC, let alone that Russia was responsible. The entire premise was fake news. News outlets, along with the intelligence and law enforcement agencies, that played that game earned the lack of trust their getting, and I think it's a very good thing that they are receiving it. A little skepticism is a good vaccine.

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Wow, I wasn't very clear. What I meant was that, while they identified a breach to the network which they had high confidence was of Russian origin because of the tools and methods used, they found no direct evidence that it resulted in data being removed from the network. They also found evidence of intrusions which were NOT consistent with Russia.

 

I think it's likely Russia was the source of the data that ended up on Wikileaks, but it is not the certainty it has been reported as.

 

The whole Russia thing irritated the hell out of me. It's like having a book club, but when you show up to discuss it you find out everyone else read a different book than the one you agreed upon. Khrushchev bragged about meddling in the 1960 election to help JFK win, why doesn't anyone accuse him of being a Russian agent? Because that'd be dumb... But somehow it's a conspiracy theory to say that Russia meddling in 2016 doesn't mean Trump is a Russian agent.

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Darth Ender- Thanks a lot, you put my fact into context and complicated the hell out of things. Reminds me of an Edward R. Murrow quote, "Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the situation." Wish he was still alive, he had a lot to say about the topic of this thread in his day.

 

Monkeygirl- I certainly painted with too broad a brush, I've never been that good at coloring inside the lines, though I think any lawyer would disagree with "broadest brush anyone's ever painted with" considering the hate they get. I was referring to the national outlets primarily. I have a lot more trust and respect for local news outlets, and even the national ones can do some good reporting occasionally, on the few issues that haven't become politically polarized.

 

But don't try to pretend this is a new issue that started when the Clown in Chief took his throne. You act like the press is an institution everyone respected until Trump came along, half the "news" today would have ended in a duel 200 years ago. Benjamin Franklin would be horrified by what his profession has devolved into, he wasn't that impressed with it by the time he died. He certainly would support Trump's right to use his verbal cudgel (or maybe even a real one) in reply to these "journalists".

 

https://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_speechs16.html

Fair enough! I'll be mindful of the fact that Trump didn't start the issues with the Press but he's certainly the only POTUS that's every considered them "the Enemy of the People" when the fact is we need the Press to report on the government and that makes them our best ally. I don't recall anyone calling "fake news" before Trump. I don't recall reporters being disrespected and attacked before he started his campaign against them. The issues I see as not related to Trump are the few cases of delusion and remembering things that didn't happen, like Hillary remembering being shot at as she boarded aircraft-however it was the Press that called out those individuals and exposed them. I also see a HUGE issue with most consumers not being able to grasp the changes since the Cronkite era; so many want to blame that on manipulation and other nefarious agendas when it's simply a tech change. But you're correct about how I present my feelings and I'll be more careful not to use hyperbole from now on

'Take the collusion hoax. Lots of us knew it was bogus from the beginning, including the people investigating it and reporting on it. Now we know (from hearing transcripts) that there was never any proof that anyone even hacked the DNC, let alone that Russia was responsible. The entire premise was fake news." ARE YOU ****ing KIDDING ME?

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