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Icy Watches Horror To Manage Her Anxiety


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Okay, I finally watched the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Which was appropriate, because retrograde Saturn moved into Capricorn today.   I can see why you wanted your homage to be an art house hor

The Changeling is another good one.  Not too scary by today's standards but a good double feature with Ghost Story.

Season of the Witch is one of my favs. You want good late 70s/early 80s style, try Ghost Story and Don't Look Back.

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You I trust. Here's why.

 

There is a huge difference between a bad witch and an evil witch. The fact that you go for the "bad" descriptor while Aster goes for "evil" is telling. If you were to write a "bad" witch, you'd write a Nancy, or a Marianne, or a Madame Blanc, or a Fiona Goode. No evil ancestry or inborn nature to harm, but a single person, in a complicated position, making morally reprehensible decisions. Typically vanquished by their "good" counterparts, but I'm honestly perfectly okay with everything just going to shit like in Hagasuzza when it's shown to be the actions of an individual, not some sweeping, all-infesting evil at the core of the practice itself.

 

I also trust that you know how to judge historical sources and political climates. This is the gist of what Aster said about his research - he said it scared the shit out of him, because he couldn't believe that there were people out there so evil, and so willing to do harm. Considering that's just plain not true, this and the plot of the movie (I read the Wikipedia synopsis) leads me to believe that Aster was researching old Witchhunter smear campaigns like the Malleus Malleficarum. Those were libel books, and they inspired a LOT of murders of innocent people. Not the kind of source that needs to be re-introduced to the world while white supremacists are getting as overtly Christian as they are overtly political and overtly violent. Especially considering a huge portion of the modern magical community is brown and/or queer. Besides, I took personal offense. I saved a baby raccoon's life and nursed it back to health, but I'm evil at my very core? Sounds like the world needs more evil, then, Ari Aster.

 

Also, you have me. You ever want to know if you're on shaky representation ground, I'm right here.

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I've been a metal kid, a goth kid, and have been into horror and the macbre my entire life. I've been accused of being evil or a devil-worshipper many many many times-- so I fully get the stigma you are not happy with.

 

In my head, a naturist pagan person who uses homeopathic remedies, practices a little sympathetic magic, and wants to be spiritually in tuned with the Earth or stars is a very VERY different thing than a Halloween/Wizard of OZ, spell-casting, pointy-hat wearing "monster." One is a cartoon and not real.

 

I've only written two things with witches. One was about a girl band in the 70s who were all fledgling witches up to no good-- but they were foiled by a witch determined to stop them from being bad.

 

The other was a complete fairy tale and I leaned as hard as possible into the cartoon pointy-hat as much as possible.

 

I've always approached witches the same as people-- they come in all shades.

 

What I wouldn't do, is write something that casts a poor light on a realistic depiction. I get there is a real thing, and I fully get the persecution in its history. But I also love basic Halloween iconography/monsters.

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In my head, a naturist pagan person who uses homeopathic remedies, practices a little sympathetic magic, and wants to be spiritually in tuned with the Earth or stars is a very VERY different thing than a Halloween/Wizard of OZ, spell-casting, pointy-hat wearing "monster." One is a cartoon and not real.

Not... quite.

 

The "Halloween" witch stereotype comes from a few different sources. Visually, they're pure Salem Witch Trials. Long, black dress? All the Puritan women wore those. Green face, crooked nose? They were tortured and beaten for days before their trial, and were brought before the people with old, green bruises covering their faces, and broken noses. I just see a battered women when I see a classic green-skinned "Wicked Witch" and I get depressed. The hat, use away. We've reclaimed it. I have two. No one really knows where that came from, anyway. The witch-as-an-old-woman stereotype? Whole lot to unpack there about views of ageing and the roles women play in society.

 

Behaviorally, the "Halloween Witch" came out of fairy tales (which are by nature instructional, and you know have been used politically just like the libel texts), and a complete misunderstanding of euphemism. For instance: flying. There are two ways that a real witch "flies." One is a meditation technique. The other is a paste of herbs that if you were to ingest, you'd puke for days, but if you apply it vaginally with a wooden dildo specially carved for the purpose, you'll get high. And an orgasm to boot. True story. You can find all kinds of historical recipes, and even buy it on Etsy.

 

Cauldrons? It can be anything iron. I use a cast iron skillet, because I'm a Hoodoo woman. Eye of Newt and all that? Old folk names for common herbs. Did witches deal in abortifacients? Yes. As a pro-choice person, that doesn't bother me. Do witches know how to brew poisons? It's a really smart thing to know what all the plants in your area that you might eat do. Did witches know how to get you hella high? See flying.

 

Eating children? Spreading that rumor is a real good way to keep curious kids from getting lost in the woods and starving to death or taken by the elements/predators before they can be found.

 

So, it's real. It's a big ol' snowball of fear of women, fear of the unknown, and the uncanny human ability to "other" fellow humans and create foes.

 

Not to mention, your first description actually doesn't describe me or my community at all. My practice has included: subordinating a demon, scaring a vampire out of her own bar with the story of how I subordinated a demon, being one of two audience members to actually stay on the dance floor when a shaman called the dead in to dance at a Dia de Muertos party (not kidding, the ghosts came in DELIGHTED to party at the very beginning of the concert, and the humans all booked it to their cars looking spooked. I got to eat so many tamales that night.), partying with Papa Legba (he parties HARD), and spending a few years having one-sided nightly conversations with a very chatty ghost who only spoke Spanish (you do not get mystical translation powers). These aren't really things you can show off on social media to your non-magical friends like your new crystal or the spell candle you're burning, but most of the reason why I find horror movies exhilarating instead of scary is that they actually look a lot like my real life.

 

So, I won't box you in, but I would caution going more Marianne and less Hereditary if you want to go evil.

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I know all this-- I was trying to not type for a thousand hours... ;P

 

There's so many witch things in development my reps have forbade me from it anyway...

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I... don't know how I feel about an upcoming glut of witch stuff.

 

The Lodgers. Now that's some gothic horror. I knew and know a LOT of teenage girls who would love to be as tragically, romantically goth as Rachel is in that scene with Sean by the lake.

 

It's also a perfect pandemic watch. Strict curfew, only leave for essentials, no visitors inside the house, everyone goes batshit from isolation.

 

I don't get why they have to hide from their own parents' and grandparents' ghosts, though.

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...I was up for the Craft remake. I would have loved that. But it was not meant to be. The Craft and Lost Boys were my go-tos in high school.

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There is one thing I have waited for, and I have never seen made....a movie trilogy or a PVOD series that adapts Dante's Inferno. As a kid I used to read the AD&D monster manual, and one of my favorite sections was the Devils of the 9 Hells. I think the closest to that was the Robin Williams movie What Dreams May Come, but I would love to see a detailed show about a journey through the 9 Hells and each devil that rules each circle. Today's CGI would really bring that to life.

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There's been a lot of allegorical takes on it. There was a literally one I was asked topitch on, put I couldn't crack it.

 

Talk to Krawlie about this though...

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...I was up for the Craft remake. I would have loved that. But it was not meant to be. The Craft and Lost Boys were my go-tos in high school.

That is one that I'm excited about. The Craft is a classic.

 

Are they redoing Lost Boys, too? They did that sequel movie like a decade ago that was pretty boring, but a good reboot would be sweet.

 

 

There is one thing I have waited for, and I have never seen made....a movie trilogy or a PVOD series that adapts Dante's Inferno. As a kid I used to read the AD&D monster manual, and one of my favorite sections was the Devils of the 9 Hells. I think the closest to that was the Robin Williams movie What Dreams May Come, but I would love to see a detailed show about a journey through the 9 Hells and each devil that rules each circle. Today's CGI would really bring that to life.

There was an animated movie, probably also a decade ago, that was very good, but probably not quite what you're looking for.

 

The Devil's Doorway. Not my first introduction to the subject. Really well done. Would have been suuuuuuuper disorienting in a dark theater.

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Lost Boys actually got TWO horrible direct to video sequels. It's currently getting the prestige quality glow up to a series for HBO.

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There was an animated movie, probably also a decade ago, that was very good, but probably not quite what you're looking for.

 

If you are talking about the 2010 incarnation based on the video game, yes, not what I am looking for. What I would be more interested in would be less an action adventure, and more of a horror/psychological thriller, more akin to What Dreams May Come, but with more of a horror bent to it. Also, I'd rather the main character be more of an observer travelling and trying to survive through the 9 circles of Hell, than an adventurer conquering Hell. Like I touched on before, there were many devils and arch devils described (and loosely based on theology) in AD&D where each level of Hell had its own ruler, all of whom are trying to overthrow one another. I would not be opposed to have the main story told against the back drop of various devils trying to wrest power from "the Devil," Lucifer (sort of like Clive Barker's The Scarlet Gospels). It just seems to me that if it were done right, there would be a lot of potential for world-building. I mean there could even be a way to incorporate Paradise Lost into that, too.

 

What I find interesting is something like this doesn't exist. Probably because very religious people would lose their minds and protest, or at least that is my assumption.

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I am the only millennial who does not play video games, so I looked it up to see if we were indeed talking about the same movie (we are), and I found this - https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1592253/

It's tagged as a family action-adventure story, so I don't think that's what you're looking for, either.

 

As for the why, I'd knee-jerk say it's the Church, especially the Catholic Church, and point to His Dark Materials... but that wouldn't explain why they've been cool with a tv show about Lucifer Himself getting sick of Hell and moving to Earth to open a nightclub and help solve crimes running for years and years, so...

While were on the subject, why hasn't there been a good D&D movie, too? You'd think someone would have gone to WOTC for a prestige movie or series when GoT got big.

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The first movie was so bad it killed the IP for awhile. There's new stuff in the works, it seems to be morphing back and forth between a series and a movie.

 

But man did I love the cartoon from the 80s.

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I missed that show by like a year. It ran from when I was 1, to when I was 3.

 

Yeah, that SciFi Channel movie was bad bad. Like, not even so bad it's good. Not even up to their usual Saturday Night Movie caliber of bad, and those are some terrible, terrible movies.

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The Catholic Church would definitely have nothing to do with stopping a good adaptation of Dante's Inferno.

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Covid notwithstanding, what's the holdup, then?

 

Hell (pun intended), they could easily do a modernized take as a loose sequel to As Above, So Below. They were clearly riffing on Dante in the Hell parts (Abandon all hope, Pap getting stuck buried upside down). Just find a modern Dante who's willing to not take the chicken door and a Virgil who can get him to the gates and in faster than 2/3 through the movie, and get into the bowels of it.

 

Funny only slightly related story, my dad and I got lost in Northern Michigan on our way to a campsite once, and we turned around and stopped in a farm's driveway to check our map. Over the door of the barn was a gigantic logger's circular saw with "Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here" written on it in what I hope was red paint. I was like FIND THE ROAD AND DRIVE, DAD.

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The Inferno is well loved in Catholic circles, from the Vatican down.

 

The hold-up is probably that it's not a guaranteed money maker, and while CGI has gotten cheaper and easier, there's still going to be a decent cost involved in doing it really well.

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I am the only millennial who does not play video games, so I looked it up to see if we were indeed talking about the same movie (we are), and I found this - https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1592253/

 

It's tagged as a family action-adventure story, so I don't think that's what you're looking for, either.

 

As for the why, I'd knee-jerk say it's the Church, especially the Catholic Church, and point to His Dark Materials... but that wouldn't explain why they've been cool with a tv show about Lucifer Himself getting sick of Hell and moving to Earth to open a nightclub and help solve crimes running for years and years, so...

 

While were on the subject, why hasn't there been a good D&D movie, too? You'd think someone would have gone to WOTC for a prestige movie or series when GoT got big.

Well, I was thinking (without offending those who are very religious...something I try not to do regardless of a person's faith) that the subject material might offend some Christians. I know that was the case in the 1980s with AD&D, but then again it is a different world by far now.

 

The Inferno is well loved in Catholic circles, from the Vatican down.

 

The hold-up is probably that it's not a guaranteed money maker, and while CGI has gotten cheaper and easier, there's still going to be a decent cost involved in doing it really well.

Now that I did not know, because in its time (my understanding), The Divine Comedy was in part a criticism of the Catholic Church, as it depicted a Pope Nicholas III in Hell, but then again the guy was corrupt. I'm not Catholic, so not something I know too much about.

 

As for profitability, or lack thereof, that could very well be the reason

 

 

As for a Dungeons and Dragons movie done right, that is another thing on my list I wish would happen. I mean there are so many options. Greyhawk, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Lankhmar, tons of novels, just to name a few.

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Dang! I wasn't even going there! And who says elves can only be played by Caucasians, anyway? Star Trek has been casting non-Caucasians as Vulcans (and now Romulans) for a few decades, now.

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No one was going there. But Community featured an episode where a recurring character dressed up one time as a Drow to play D&D, and now you cant watch it anywhere streaming because its too close to blackface for comfort. After that precedent, we will never see a Drow in a D&D movie. Im not thrilled about that.

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