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Ideas I love in TROS


13 replies to this topic

#1
The Choc

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Im bored with not much to do right now, thus creating 2 threads in one night. However I wanted to put out some things that I really liked in this newest movie to try to be positive. Ofcourse when I thought of the things I liked I wished they had all gotten more time/attention in the movie and it just got me negative again about thole Emperor being back thing. So I guess this list will contain positive stuff (its the ideas that I love!!) mixed with negative (they didn't use those ideas enough!!)

 

 

--Finn having the Force. This wasn't something I predicted or even wanted in the movie but I do like the idea. The whole "JJ cut" rumors suggest he had it playing a larger role in the movie so maybe JJ was on to something here. I just wish it had played really any kind of role in the movie. I said on this board a few times I thought the final scene of the movie should have been Rey giving a first lesson in The Force to a student. I didn't mean that student should be Finn but it would have worked if it had been!

 

--Stormtrooper revolt. We get this as a backstory on a new character. I love the idea that even people programmed from birth can still make positive choices in their lives. This would actually play into and compliment the idea that Rey can choose her own path even if she is a Palpatine too. I just wish this had been a main plot of the movie. I could just see Finn getting on a Star Destroyer and giving some speech to a group of troopers who all take off their helmets and take over the ship and take it to aid the Resistance. Coulda been great

 

--Rey's gold lightsaber: Maybe its yellow? Doesn't matter. The idea of Rey having her own saber is 100% correct and it having its own unique color is even better and not something I had really considered. I don't like that they put the Anakin/Luke saber back together. I mean they literally have to put the past back together? JJ obviously felt it was important to show Rey with the new blade but I just wish she had used it the whole movie. Rather than just at the end suggest she is starting on her own path with it, she should have had it and been on her own path this movie.

 

-Poe struggling with leadership. Poe is kinda back to his TFA role at the start her. He is Leia's pilot again. We get a couple glimpses of him struggling with a leadership role. First when he says to Finn "Im not Leia" and Finn responds "thats for damn sure." Then when Leia dies and he questions whether he can take over. This should have been his major plot in the movie. It would have been easy to do. Leia hands over day to day control of the Resistance because she is too busy training Rey. Poe spends the movie basically thinking "what would Leia do" before realizing he has to be himself and lead in his own way while still using Leia's lessons. As it is we got a couple glimpses of this and they are resolved by simply making Finn his co-general

 

--The galaxy come to the Resistance's aid. This is the biggest one I think. The end of TLJ basically has the galaxy losing hope and not helping. The Resistance is going to "light the fire." But in reality in this movie they don't. The galaxy finally responding and helping SHOULD 100% happen. It just should have been a major part of the movie. As it is it's not earned at all. Its "hey Lando, go get help" and help comes. The idea of the "peoples navy" is the right idea, its just rushed.

 

 

There are probably a few other things but this will do for now. I think it shows that alot of the ideas I thought should be the main thrust of the movie JJ also thought were important enough to include, even if in smaller ways than I would have liked. I think alot of that was the mandate that this be some sort of climax to the entire "Skywalker saga" (isn't it really the Palpatine saga? the climax of it is 2 Palpatines fighting each other) consumed alot of the ideas that should have comprimsed the main part of the movie. JJ included alot of those ideas but they were short changed in favor of taking 1 more bite at the OT nostalgia apple. 

 

Having said that these are all aspects of the movie I do like!!


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#2
Metropolis

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Not that I disagree with everything you said, I'm going to play devil's advocate for then sake of discussion.

1. Finn being Force sensitive. At this point of the series it's irrelevant. It might set up a future book. The way it was played in the movie it seems as if Finn wants to tell Rey he loves her. Why the big secret? One that never gets answered BTW. We have to be told later on what the big secret was.

2 Stormtrooper revolt. Perhaps leader Snoke should consider using a clone army. I actually can't dispute how this could have been more significant. Watching the Mandalorian finale and the laugh riot that is the speeder troopers showing us how bad a shot Imperials are, I can't imagine the Empire, First Order, Last Order giving two ****s.

3. Rey's lightsaber. If I asked where she got the yellow Kyber Crystal you could ask where Luke got the green one. Of course they're only $25 at Galaxy's Edge. Polish that thing up though. I know she's a scavenger, and her saber is made of junk, but you represent the Jedi now.

4. The cavalry finally comes. This is a real problem I had. Why now? The situation seemed a lot bleaker at the end of TROS than at TLJ. It's a great site for sure. Even a Trade Federation is party of the group. Was it because there was (pun intended) a new hope? Or was it because of they didn't make a stand now all would be lost?

#3
Zathras

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1. I loved that it was Lando saving the day with bringing the cavalry.

2. While I think it could have been explained how Palpatine survived and Snoke existing, I liked Palpatine returning.   Ian McDiarmid  always delivers. 

3. Considering she passed away, I think they did as good a job as they could blending in Leia into the film with cut scenes. 

4. I'm glad they didn't kill off the droids, Chewie, Lando, or blew up the Falcon.  

5. I liked the camaraderie between Finn, Poe, and Rey.  It was very much like the OT. 



#4
Djo

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I like your list Choc. I would add that I liked all the mystical almost EU like aspects such as a hidden Sith Planet, Palpy’s SithGoth resurrection, Rey’s healing ability, Reylo’s bond forming a diad in the force so strong that they could bring each other back to life, Leia sacrificing herself at just the right moment. A lot of these things are wtf moments for many people but I like that kind of stuff.

The thing that’s so interesting about that stuff is that most of the galaxy knows very little about the Force, the Jedi and the Sith. The Mandalorian is exploring that too. I would like to see the next lot of movies go back to the height of the galactic Republic. There’s a rumour that they may take place about 500 years earlier. Yoda would be around then.
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#5
Darth Krawlie

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There’s a rumour that they may take place about 500 years earlier. Yoda would be around then.

I don't want to take this thread into too much of a tangent, but while I really like the idea of future films taking place in the distant past, I don't want Yoda to be involved. I'm pretty tired of Yoda.


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#6
Lord Darth Hunter

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I liked the idea of Kylo and Rey having their connection. But I like how it was handled in TLJ as opposed to ROS. Them getting to see each other when they talk. A subtle rain drop coming through. But not a full blown lightsaber duel and the passing along of objects Freddy Krueger style.

 

I think they could've done more with this connection, centered the trilogy around it. It could be a new Force ability that signals some kind of new power. This would be what's driving Kylo Ren to seek out Rey and at the same time what scares Rey into trying to stay away from him. It could even be the impetus for turning to the dark side rather than some Vader worship. It could somehow been what the prophecy was really about. Kylo and Rey together balance the Force. In ROTS Yoda even mentions the prophecy could've been misread. I'm just rambling here but I think this was a missed opportunity with the "Force dyad" thing.  

 



#7
R.CAllen

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Of all the things I liked about this movie, well, I'm not sure "ideas" would really top the list.



#8
Odine

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I like your list Choc. I would add that I liked all the mystical almost EU like aspects such as a hidden Sith Planet, Palpys SithGoth resurrection, Reys healing ability, Reylos bond forming a diad in the force so strong that they could bring each other back to life, Leia sacrificing herself at just the right moment. A lot of these things are wtf moments for many people but I like that kind of stuff.

The thing thats so interesting about that stuff is that most of the galaxy knows very little about the Force, the Jedi and the Sith. The Mandalorian is exploring that too. I would like to see the next lot of movies go back to the height of the galactic Republic. Theres a rumour that they may take place about 500 years earlier. Yoda would be around then.


Me too

#9
Tank

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I want them to go deep into the future... and when the young Jedi hero goes looking for answers he go to the ruins of the Lars farm on Tattooine.

On topic-- I'm struggling a bit. There's no shortage of good ideas in the ST. Hell, the PT is chock full of good ideas-- but if you can't execute them it's not a successful film.

Not since the PT have I seen more post-film clean up. If I see one more "Chris Terrio explains why..." headline I am going to lose it. In my line of work, everything you do is meant to make sure the audience is following. If you have to explain it after, you failed.



#10
Ms. Spam

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Did someone mention the boy at the gambling city in The Force Awakens that used the force to move a broom? I mean they touched on others being force sensitive there...besides Finn. 



#11
Tank

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Did someone mention the boy at the gambling city in The Force Awakens that used the force to move a broom? I mean they touched on others being force sensitive there...besides Finn. 

There's repeated mentions that with the rise of the dark, the Force begins to manifest in people to combat it and bring things back in balance. In TFA Snoke says as much, and Rey's hinted at being a nobody The Force awoke in. In TLJ there's broom kid. In TROS they walk it back a little with Rey, but Finn fits the bill.


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#12
The Choc

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I want them to go deep into the future... and when the young Jesi hero goes looking for answers he go to the ruins of the Lara farm on Tattooine.

On topic-- I'm struggling a bit. There's no shortage of good ideas in the ST. Hell, the PT is chock full of good ideas-- but if you can't execute them it's not a successful film.

Not since the PT have I seen more post-film clean up. If I see one more "Chris Terrio explains why..." headline I am going to lose it. In my line of work, everything you do is meant to make sure the audience is following. If you have to explain it after, you failed.

Obviously we all have different things we value in movies or else we'd all have the same opinion on movies, both Star Wars and otherwise. Myself Im someone who will more dwell on the big ideas, the big picture. Especially with big fantasy type movies. The stories are literally meant to teach us lessons. I suppose I'm a bit more of a theme than plot guy. Not that all the elements don't matter, ofcourse they do. That's kinda the point of this thread. Ideas I loved in this movie that I don't love how they were implemented.

 

Like I said I suppose I lean more on the overall ideas than on the execution. I remember once talking about ROTS with someone here, may have even been you. It was about the whole Padme dying of a broken heart thing. Now like any sane person I'd have rather she died of the injuries caused by the choking. Still though the main thing is she dies due to Anakin's actions. They very thing he set out to prevent he caused to happen. That doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better if they had changed it to her dying of injuries but overall the idea works for me.

 

I've spent alot of time on this board lately enumerating things I don't like about this movie both big and small. In the end though I think my biggest problem is simply there is nothing that I love in it. With The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi and Rogue One there were parts I truly loved. Things that really compelled me to want to go to the theater to see it again while I had the chance. Id see the movie then 3, 4, 5 days later I'd just get this itch that I have to see this scene or that scene or this moment or that moment again. It really was almost a compulsion to go back and see these elements that I loved. I just can't find anything in this movie that compels me to want to see it again. There is nothing to make me forgive that the movie is too much like A New Hope, that the casino scenes arent great or the slow speed chase could have been different. There is just nothing that makes  me think "I need to see this again NOW!"



#13
Tank

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I hear you-- I just think because it's STAR WARS it gets cut slack no other movie would. There's no shortage of movies I think are good conceptually, but failed to land as cogent works. I wouldn't put any of them in my top 10. I wouldn't defend them to anyone. Star Wars being Star Wars gets a pass for the most terrible of filmmaking offenses.

 

It doesn't matter if you are a theme guy, a plot guy, or a character guy-- If a movie needs a  spinoff book, an interview with the screenwriter, or sequel that retcons everything in order to be clear on what its intents were-- it failed as a movie. That's not a matter of taste or opinion, that's a straight up failure on delivering what a thing is meant to do.

 

It's buying a new car that explodes after a block, but then you say it was a decent car because you liked the color. 


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#14
The Choc

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I hear you-- I just think because it's STAR WARS it gets cut slack no other movie would. There's no shortage of movies I think are good conceptually, but failed to land as cogent works. I wouldn't put any of them in my top 10. I wouldn't defend them to anyone. Star Wars being Star Wars gets a pass for the most terrible of filmmaking offenses.

 

It doesn't matter if you are a theme buy, a plot guy, or a character guy-- If a movie need  spinoff book, an interview with the screenwriter, or sequel that retcons everything in order to be clear on what its intents were-- it failed as a movie. That's not a matter of taste or opinion, that's a straight up failure on delivering what a thing is meant to do.

 

It's buying a new car that explodes after a block, but then you say it was a decent car because you liked the color. 

I agree with this 100%. Ofcourse there are elements that are in tie in materials that explain things from the movie that the movie doesn;t need explained within them. However there are things from the movies that lean on tie ins far too much. This movie seems to be the biggest culprit though. I think there is a difference between some book saying how Maz got Luke's saber as opposed to a book that tells us how Palpatine came back. Especially when you are trying to sell me that this is the climax of the whole story and somehow defeating him is permanent this time and then give me no reason to think that. 

 

As for Star Wars being forgiven cause its Star Wars, I think that goes both ways. What you say is fair but the movies are all scrutanized much more than similar movies. Hell the new movies are scrutanized much more than the OT movies. You have people complaining about science aspects of the sequels when they are no worse or better than similar things in the OT. Its a double edged sword. 

 

I still think most of the problems with this one arose from the decision to make Episode 9 the "final chapter". In reality Episodes 1-6 are a story. They  tried to make episodes 1-9 a story when what they should have done is make 1-6 a story and then make this trilogy (and anything after it) a sequel to that story which was told in 1-6. 


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