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What's your final E1-9 ranking?
Posted 23 July 2020 - 02:03 PM
My rankings are:
Yes, now the dust has settled, I have to agree with others that my original placing of TROS was also too high. I came out of the cinema in December on the back of expecting the worst after TLJ left us in a bit of a tricky situation to resolve in 1 film (at least that's my opinion). So I was going in very negatively and came out reasonably happy they had found a way to resolve it.
But further viewings since and it's just full of issues. The dagger in the shape of the "death star remains" as a treasure map, and don't get me started on Anakin's destiny of defeating Palpatine being ruined by his return.
So here is the revised list:
5. TPM (the interview with Filoni on the Mandalorian extra's made me appreciate this film a little more, as has seeing the whole of The Clone Wars since Disney+ came to the UK in March)
6. TFA (still good fun and promises much. Just a tinge of sadness watching it, wishing they had written a basic story arc for all 3 films)
8. TLJ (I know this is critically loved by many, but if I am brutally honest, after 34 years of waiting to see Luke in action again, this is not what I hoped for)
9. AOTC (Watching the Clone Wars has not helped this woeful film however)
Posted 27 July 2020 - 04:28 PM
1. ANH / ESB - Tie. ANH was still part of the early, "raw" and "real" GL, when his vision and messaging of his key themes were so sharp (continuing from what he established in THX-1138 and American Graffiti), while ESB was GL polish and myth making at its best.
2. ROTJ - The Luke arc alone leave the rest of the SW films looking like a dried-up corpse.
3. TPM. Despite the film wasting so much time on podracing and the embarrassing Jar-Jar, its a film that had the kind of film pacing that has not been in vogue since the early 80s. While the overall package was by no means perfect (and Jinn was an ass half of the time), unlike some SW fans, I appreciated GL world-building on the political side of that galaxy. In other words, its not all about getting to lightsaber fights and stunts.
4. ROTS. McGregor was the saving grace of the film, with his pitch perfect growth into a more Guinness-esque Obi-Wan. His performance captured all attention, and his last scene--contemplating his new duty and how his life would unfold was the one flawless PT scene pointing toward the OT.
5. AOTC. Anakin was irritating in ways not having anything to do with the plot to push the character toward the Dark Side. Yoda did not need to use a lightsaber, the franchise's eye roll-inducing Fett obsession finally poisoned the series with the unnecessary introduction of Jango / making him the source of the clones.
6. RO. Utterly unnecessary. All of the most relevant, lasting plot points of this film were addressed in the crawl of ANH. The rest--especially the main characters--did not serve any purpose or tell a story the audience needed to know (or rather, did not know already). Then again, Disney Wars hve been a textbook example of misguided / pointless films that lack the mythic heart of the OT.
7, 8 and 9 - The ST. Wrongheaded, uninteresting crap in SW dressing, all thanks to Kathleen Kennedy's 9and others') drive not being an honest exploration of / continuation of all that GL built, but messaging the series did not need. That, and Finn was an embarrassment with no purpose of his own. Star Wars as a film franchise is in a position worse than the Bond series in the wake of Moonraker; it earned money, but was so excessively cartoonish and lacked that which made the Eon films series relevant in the first place, that it took a major reset to keep Bond alive. In the case of the SW-ST, this was a bloated, expensive series of films, with each proving the new regime had no idea how to make a great SW film. It seems that was not their aim at the start of it all.
10. Solo. Oh, for... See the ST entry.
Posted 03 August 2020 - 02:42 PM
The ST. Wrongheaded, uninteresting crap in SW dressing, all thanks to Kathleen Kennedy's 9and others') drive not being an honest exploration of / continuation of all that GL built, but messaging the series did not need. That, and Finn was an embarrassment with no purpose of his own. Star Wars as a film franchise is in a position worse than the Bond series in the wake of Moonraker; it earned money, but was so excessively cartoonish and lacked that which made the Eon films series relevant in the first place, that it took a major reset to keep Bond alive. In the case of the SW-ST, this was a bloated, expensive series of films, with each proving the new regime had no idea how to make a great SW film. It seems that was not their aim at the start of it all..
I like this post.
I've been a staunch Ep 7 defender, but I agree, the ST as a whole is such a sad waste. I still say TFA was a solid opening move for the series. Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver are fantastic, Kylo Ren is an interesting villain, nice to see a female hero for a change, got the 'look and feel' right. Then 8 and 9 took that and fumbled every opportunity there was (Finn was underdeveloped but with two movies to go there are probably hundreds of interesting ways he could have gone - ditto for Poe - his arc was lame).
Still, in spite of the mess it was (especially 9) I can't find it in my heart to rank it lower than the PT.
- Odine +1 this
Posted 03 August 2020 - 03:06 PM
Rise of Skywalker isnt a movie, its a series of 6-10 minute long segments that they threw together, but I wasnt checking my watch throughout, so it entertained me more than TLJ.
Just doing 1-9 listing, leaving out everything else.
4. TFA (taken alone - as a set up and part of a trilogy, it would be way lower)
- Tank +1 this
Posted 03 August 2020 - 04:50 PM
I don't know why, but I spend a lot of time thinking about other people's thoughts on the saga. And I have thoughts about those thoughts.
ANH and ESB, these are bar none the best Star Wars. The defining Star Wars. The OG realness. Anyone who doesn't have one of these at the top of their list, I dare say it, does not GET Star Wars.
ROTJ is a bit of a red-headed step child. If it were released today it would likely get eviscerated. There's plot holes (what exactly WAS Luke's plan going in to Jabba's?), some ass-pulls (Leia's his sister!? but... but...), then there's the Ewoks, a neutered Han, Luke NOT being used as a pilot, and all sorts of little details that are not great... BUT... It was still the OT, and it has nostalgia on its side. And the stuff with Luke and Vader and The Emperor is the heart of the trilogy coming to a close. Things things give it a huge pass. As such, I can see it landing anywhere on people's lists.
TPM is trash. I struggle to find anything redeeming about it, and I often question anyone who thinks it is good... that said.. I remember the hype and the feels. If you were an 80s kid like me and grew up on the OT, it may have been hard for you. If you were younger, and grew up with SW on home video, it was probably less of a sell. Either way, the feels and the excitement of there being new Star Wars, and the beginning of the PT era is a legit thing, so I get why some people like it. Plus, Darth Maul is pretty cool.
AOTC is pure garbage and one of the worst movies ever made, period. Anyone who doesn't put this near the bottom of their list has suspect judgement and taste.
ROTS is the only "watchable" PT film in my opinion. It's very sloppy, on the nose, and poorly written-- but it has all the moments that most of us had been waiting the entire trilogy for. For that reason, I get why people have some love for it.
TFA, to me, was a great reset, and after the PT it felt like a return to real Star Wars. JJ Abrams is great with tone and feel. I think that most people should rank this one high, unless they are butthurt about the EU, didn't like the new cast, or had a very specific idea of what should have happened. I also think, that of all the SW films it is the one hurt most by the ones that followed it.
TLJ is made to be controversial. There's no confusion at all as to why some people love it, while other people detest it. It will forever be the movie that truly divided SW fandom. Even more than OT vs PT fights or movies vs the EU. This could literally appear anywhere on a list and not surprise me. I get why those who hate it do, but I also see why those who like it feel that way.
TROS is practically incomprehensible. It made me realize the core differences between the ST and PT. The PT was great ideas, poor execution. The ST was the reverse, poor ideas, great execution. TROS is just proof of what happens when you have a money-making franchise and everyone with say gets their thoughts in and you get a jumble of ideas all at once in an effort to appease everyone. If anyone loves this movie, they are suspect.
- Filthy Jawa and Rogue 3 +1 this
Posted 03 August 2020 - 05:17 PM
Posted 05 August 2020 - 09:45 AM
Good post there Tank. Can't really argue with any of that.
ROTJ was the first one I was old enough to see at the cinema first time out (I would have been 6 and a few months at the time). I remember it being a strange feeling watching it compared to ANH and ESB that I had watched many times prior to Jedi. The Emperor was only briefly mentioned in ANH, and the original version of the Emperor in ESB was much different to Ian McDiarmid's performance, and a much shorter scene than what we have now. So for this guy to come in and be the main baddie was a big change after the relentless Vader we saw in ESB, and when you don't really know Palp's full back story until later comics and other stuff started to flesh that out.
The point you make about Luke being a pilot is interesting - never really thought about that. The best pilot in the rebellion and he is on the stealth mission on the ground. Doesn't use his Jedi abilities all that much really - magic trick with C3PO (that part of Family Guy always sticks in my mind now!), little bit of lightsaber action with a speeder bike... I guess just a plot device to get him through the shield and onto the Death Star at the end of the day - something tricky to do in his x-wing.
Having said all that, it still features at number 3 in the chart for me with those excellent Luke and Vader moments, plus it's was a big part of my childhood.
At the time, TPM was a huge let down after all the excitement of the new films. Looked great, awesome lightsaber fight, but just didn't have that fun feel from the OT. That interview with Dave Filoni really did make it jump up a few places in the overall list though. Really interesting, and that whole "Round Table" series on the Mandalorian is well worth a watch.
Last point is on AOTC - I must have gone to an internet cafe to see those 3 or 4 trailers so many times - really good case of put all the juicy bits in a trailer and the film itself being absolutely rotten.