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The "I've seen The Rise of Skywalker" Thread


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Also, here's a list of the Jedi Voices cameos:   - Obi-Wan Kenobi (both Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness): "These are your final steps, Rey. Rise and take them... Rey... Rise." – Anakin Skywalker: "Re

This is all I took away from that post.

In retrospect we shoulda let Jon Favreu have it!

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I think the most they would have done is force Lucasfilm to hire him back after Trevorrow was sacked and make them keep the release date. I actually do believe they had somewhat of a plan for 9 but with Carrie passing and the reception of the recent ones, they went back to the drawing board.

 

It's been said before but I think the ST would have benefited from the three year release cycle that the OT/PT had.

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It's been said before but I think the ST would have benefited from the three year release cycle that the OT/PT had.

 

ROS editor Maryann Brandon agrees with you. She stated in an interview that the tight production schedule kept Abrams from doing the job up to his standards. She went so far as to say Kennedy told her "JJ has got to spend more time in the cutting room" but she knew he couldn't be around because he was too exhausted.

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Oh boy, #ReleaseTheJJCut, what fun!

 

I had next to no idea confabulating nonsense (Disney hates JJ Abrams so much and are scared of the opposition so badly they're going to tank their own movie just so, what, he'll be paid a little less to write & direct some DC properties for Warner Bros?), semi-plausible possibly true insider info (I think I read somewhere JJ hates directing kissing scenes so him not being on board for the big kiss between Ridley & Driver sorta makes sense) and blatant fan wish fulfillment (wouldn't it have leaked already if all those actors showed up to play blue ghosts?) on the Internet could garner so much attention.

 

Here's my try at it : I have a super secret insider source who worked in pre-production and post-production and was on set all the time too and was also in the editing bay and also with the marketing teams and the studio executives and is close to the director, we'll call her Tank, no wait, uh, Qathleen Qennedy and she told me :

 

• the ending duel between Rey & Palpatine was much bigger with more people. Darth Plagueis the Wise was there, and so was Darth Tenebrous and Darth Venamis, the entire line-up of Dark Lords of the Sith all the way back to Darth Bane (voiced by Mark Hamill!) was racked up behind him. Exar Kun was there too! First drafts of the script had Maul & Dooku up there but someone started to talk about continuity and it didn't make sense and the expense of CGI animating Christopher Lee was too much to be worthwhile so it was scrapped way before shooting began.

 

• Ben's final conversation with Rey was much longer, yeah. He explains that his parents were going to call him Bail Solo, honouring Leia's dad and having a name that actually sounded semi-appropriate for Han Solo's kid, but they wanted to remember the most important person in their family's life instead : Ben Quadinaros, from the Tuung system.

 

• When the first cut of TFA came out years ago JJ was so sad, absolutely shattered, crying and bawling for days. Disney had cut out his special good boy, his best guy, the most important character in the movie, in the franchise, in the entire mythology of all human existence. That's something he really wanted, nay, needed to rectify this time around so for TROS about half the script was devoted to Constable Zuvio, his exploits laying down the law in Jakku, his romantic life, the love triangle between him and Aurra Sing and this new character named AA Jbrjms, real great stuff, the whole nine yards. Disney threw a complete hissy fit, Bob Iger hates Constable Zuvio, has always hated him, and so they nearly fired him over it. It was a whole big to-do, my source didn't mention how it was resolved, but one can only assume that once the hashtagged JJ Cut is released we'll find out for sure once and for all.

 

• the scene with the masked ape-man restoring Kylo's helmet actually took place earlier in the film's narrative and was something Ape-Man demanded as 'payment' for making the wayfinder work. There was a dance sequence with the Knights of Ren ecstatic over the restoration of Kylo's helmet; oh wait, this is actually real, Google it, go ahead

 

• the one part of TLJ that JJ unilaterally approved of was the scene where hermit Luke drank milk so there was a whole lot of milking go on. Those horses gave milk, Art Deco Boba Fett Keri Russell was popping out a titty to squirt milk into Babu Frik's eager waiting open jaw ("HEH HEY!"), the raging waters surrounding the Death Star wreckage was originally supposed to be milk, JJ kept insisting that particular bit made sense and was quoting from Hindu scripture or something like that. Disney put a stop to that tout suite, apparently, the single largest owner of Disney stock is lactose intolerant!?

 

• Broadway impresario Lin-Manuel Miranda's cameo role was much bigger in the next-to-final cut

 

• Dominic Monaghan's role of Beaumont Kin was originally supposed to be filled by the Ken Leung character from TFA but there was a big scheduling conflict so it didn't work out

 

• there was a tie-in planned with The Mandalorian but it couldn't quite work out either

 

• the final line of the film changed from the original draft; there, Rey toggles her lightsaber on/off and then turns to the audience and says, "I got this kyber crystal from Plo Koon's lightsaber, as seen in the PlayStation game Jedi Power Battles." There was a big argument about whether or not this should stay in (JJ has always been adamant about how the story of Star Wars must end with the breaking of the fourth wall, how it's dramatically necessary) but in the end poor JJ lost this particular Jedi Power Battle of his own.

 

• second unit directed the Harrison Ford scene. Ford won't let JJ anywhere near him (he doesn't even know JJ's name, he calls him "GG" or "DD") ever since the guy nearly killed him. Harrison Ford is high all the time, BTW.

 

• At one point JJ was going on and on about how much he loves Star Wars and Mark Hamill just said to him, "Well, if you like these movies so much why have you made two of them and I'm only in, like, one scene each? I don't meant to be rude but do you know who I am? Do you know what character I played in these movies forty years ago?" JJ got really flustered and started talking about Campbellian monomyths and mystery box plotting and the colour red, Mark Hamill pressed him on this point and JJ finally admitted that, no, he can't remember the names of the characters in any movie he watches, nor in any of the screenplays he writes. That's why Poe Dameron is named after his assistant, he thought it'd help him remember but it didn't work, he just calls Oscar Isaac's character "Oscar", not just to his face, too. It's a kind of disability, a sort of specialized dyslexia, Mark Hamill asked him to name the name of any fictional character in any movie and he. just. couldn't. (Apparently, they fake the footage in interviews and make it look like he's pronouncing these names properly. They've done this for decades!) I know what you're thinking. Why doesn't JJ just make biopics or documentaries then? He could but he won't. Because he's an artist!

 

• Finn yells "Rey" all the time because the sets are really loud (the high-tech cameras JJ uses on every one of his productions have these lenses that emit a constant high-decibel droning noise that resonates and echoes without end each time they focus; you can actually SEE them do it in some of his shots from his earlier work) and nobody can hear anybody while they're filming. They do audio work in post-production to bring down the levels on most everyone else's dialogue but John Boyega worked up the courage this time around to insist that his performance be respected. Good for him!

 

• Chris Terrio is not a real person. Check his ImdB page! He's a designated pseudonym for bad scripts, like Alan Smithee. This isn't really inside info, more general knowledge, it's an open secret.

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In all seriousness I read one of the main differences was that JJ didn't want to unveil the Emperor in the lead up to the movie because he wanted his inclusion to be a surprise. In fact he didn't want to unveil him so early in the story. The plan was for a new character, that everyone assumed to be the Emperor, to go by a different name all movie then near the end reveal himself to be the Emperor.

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Random thought on Kylo Ren, as performed by Adam Driver. Just my opinion, but after rewatching ANH, during the scene right after Luke discovers his aunt and uncle killed and he says "I want to go with you to Alderaan," etc, I think that Adam Driver patterned his voice cadence after Luke in that scene.

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As somebody in the industry I always feel like Reddit insiders are generally full of ****...

 

that said, speaking as somebody in the industry, the details in there sound very legit.

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It does make sense considering how messy the movie was but still not sure I believe it considering the source.

 

If it's true, which wouldn't surprise me, I doubt Disney interfered to sabotage JJ. Why risk damaging a brand this valuable for that? I'd say it'd be more because they were afraid of another TLJ reception.

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It does make sense considering how messy the movie was but still not sure I believe it considering the source.

 

If it's true, which wouldn't surprise me, I doubt Disney interfered to sabotage JJ. Why risk damaging a brand this valuable for that? I'd say it'd be more because they were afraid of another TLJ reception.

It matters little, the motivation for Disney meddling, when the outcome is the same. A movie so edited and cut the director barely recognises it.

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It does make sense considering how messy the movie was but still not sure I believe it considering the source.

 

If it's true, which wouldn't surprise me, I doubt Disney interfered to sabotage JJ. Why risk damaging a brand this valuable for that? I'd say it'd be more because they were afraid of another TLJ reception.

Studio interference isn't intended to sabotage-- it's generally driven by either market testing or an exec who doesn't think the movie is working. Then somebody new is brought in to fix things in the shape of an uncredited (or subtly credited) writer/director to write, shoot, and edit new material.

 

Everything the Reddit thread claims could totally happen, but "Disney" isn't a singular entity. With R1 and Solo, KK made those calls and hires. The story is a little conflicted as to if Disney took over everything or if KK was overseeing changes at Disney's behest.

 

The narrative is a little confusing-- JJ was apparently surprised at the new cut. The editor is defending him saying he wanted different things than what we saw-- but she would be the one doing the changes. Meanwhile Terrio is giving tons of interviews defending everything as if it were the plan all along, filling in plot holes, and contradicting himself as Mr Damage control.

 

None of this jives with how the movie is credited (which is an exacting process vetted by the four big unions). If the movie is not what JJ expected, there is a hatchet person somewhere in the mix. It could be Kennedy, slaved to Disney's notes, but they could have had their own person take control.

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It does make sense considering how messy the movie was but still not sure I believe it considering the source.

 

If it's true, which wouldn't surprise me, I doubt Disney interfered to sabotage JJ. Why risk damaging a brand this valuable for that? I'd say it'd be more because they were afraid of another TLJ reception.

Studio interference isn't intended to sabotage-- it's generally driven by either market testing or an exec who doesn't think the movie is working. Then somebody new is brought in to fix things in the shape of an uncredited (or subtly credited) writer/director to write, shoot, and edit new material.

 

I get that - but the Reddit post seemed to indicate they were trying to sabotage him so he'd look bad to WB before taking on any DC material. That's the part that doesn't really make sense to me.

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Sabotage their own movie look worse, no-- But if they felt their notes were justified, and JJ wasn't going to do them, and they had reason to not maintain a relationship with him... they would proceed without his involvement.

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I think there are some pretty convoluted fandoms out there. I mean I used to go to Comic-Con in San Diego pretty regularly as well as Dragoncon when I lived in Atlanta. There was so much stuff out there and different cannons and fan fiction and books, comic books, movies, cartoons. How do you smash that all together and make it work. It doesn't because it's ugly because not everyone will be satisfied.

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To be fair, prior to the release of TROS, I had monitored Reddit TROS spoilers, and honestly, I would say at least 85 to 90% of those spoilers were SPOT ON. Some of the differences might have been due to last minute editing. For example, in some of the earlier leaks, Jannah was actually leaked as Lando's daughter. The scene which she and Lando share, seems either edited, or re-shot, considering how awkward that scene was. Without that back ground, one would assume Lando was being a creeper. With that background, one might think there is something to there being a Lucas/Abrams cut, that was edited.

 

Just saying that sometimes Reddit is pretty close to the mark, guys.

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So, again, just to clarify, for my own personal edification, once more, correct me if I'm wrong but the following things (exact quotes in bold) make sense to people :

 

- "Their [Disney/Lucasfilm/unnamed higher-ups?] goal is to make JJ look bad to potential investors/shareholders."

 

- "Disney insisted on more fan service, less controversy." FELLOW NERDS, THE MOUSE IS ON OUR SIDE!

 

- "The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes." The movie has been out a month and this is, like, a dozen different people, some of them fairly famous? Nobody took a selfie? Nobody leaked this anywhere else?

 

- “They fly now” is one of them. It’s also JJ’s least favorite scene." FELLOW NERDS, YES, YES, JJ AGREES WITH US! WE THINK THAT SCENE IS STUPID SO JJ THINKS IT IS STUPID TOO!

 

- "My source told me this well before Terrio mentioned it in an interview a couple of days ago." This is kind of like when warlords would listen to the weather report on the radio and then 'predict' the weather and the half of the population that didn't have radios would be, like, 'This man is truly blessed by God' and the half that did just had to pretend and go along w/it. FELLOW NERDS, WHAT I TELL YOU NOW I SWEAR I LEARNED BEFORE YOU DID!

 

- "[...] it became obvious that Disney had an agenda in addition to wanting to please shareholders. Disney could “afford messing up IX for the sake of the bigger picture” when it came to protecting things unrelated to IX." Qué?

 

- "Some of the planets that were cut were Kashyyyk, Naboo, and Kamino." FELLOW NERDS, THE EVIL PEOPLE ARE KEEPING AWAY THE RECOGNIZABLE PLANETS FROM OUR GOOD GOOD EYES!

 

- "The scene where the tie fighters are chasing them through the iceberg - those corridors were inspired by a video game JJ used to play in the 90s called Rebel Assault 2 (the third level in the game with the tunnels on Endor specifically)." I can't really pin it down why but reading this on the first go around was about where I felt the guy was just pulling lies out of his own brain?

 

- "Babu Frik was nearly cut because some execs at Disney thought he would be the new Jar Jar. They are really surprised that people love him this much. He was JJ's idea and was created in collaboration with some artists and puppeteers. The personality was all JJ."

 

- "A source said that this is the one franchise and the one piece of his work that he didn't want to mess up and instead it turned into his worst nightmare."

 

And from his follow-up post:

 

- "For those asking how I verified who this source was: I know their name. I have seen their business card and ID badge. I have seen documents, folders and forms related to their work, including non-SW projects. I have seen photos taken at studios and events, some complete with EXIF data, that correspond to established production timelines. I have seen bank statements confirming production related activities. I have seen correspondence between my source and others at this company. In total, I felt I had enough to make a post on reddit, based on the source alone."

 

- The following is from the source directly, which they gave me permission to post on their behalf:
I'm surprised the media is even commenting on it to refute all this because even the way they're wording things is flat-out laughable and makes them look like they're trying to cover it up by being ridiculously over-the-top in mentioning buzzwords/sentences like "tin-foil hat" and "conspiracy". We live in a 'fake news' world now and we're all well aware that the media now has an agenda.
Investigative, unbiased journalism is a rarity only a few publications can afford. It'd be one thing if they denied something film related but they cannot, literally cannot, have irrefutable evidence about something related to a business mess only a few would be aware of. This isn't something an average Joe tied to a project can know. This isn't something JJ would come to you and mention willy-nilly. This isn't something the actors can freely speak about(though I'm surprised about Dominic a bit). Disney is so much bigger than the glimpses the media gets to see and hear about. Peter Sciretta(whom I actually adore and have ironically met on a number of occasions) - with all due respect - cannot be in the know about things like this no matter how you spin it; no matter how good he thinks his sources are. He simply cannot.
I think we should all be cautious in what we believe in - this goes for what I am saying as well. I have no qualms in admitting that I come from a biased place and that I have an agenda as well. My agenda is to fight a genuinely massive force that is trying to control a narrative in such devious ways. Anyone saying "but JJ is an established powerhouse" - bless you but he's an ant compared to Disney. Disney - a company that used him merely as a tool and tossed him when they no longer liked the decisions that he made (decisions outside of Disney and decisions that Disney has no business sticking their noses in).
I could say much more - I want to share more with the world - but that would mean throwing some people I care about under the bus and getting them in trouble. I cannot do that nor can I put them in a position where they will feel pressured to go against what they believe in by saying something they're asked to say.
I always knew this was a lose-lose scenario in terms of credibility. That's not news to me. I'd be naive to think otherwise. Planting the seeds is the only thing I care about for now.

 

This makes sense to people? This all tracks?

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Except the Luke-Leia training thing. That felt way too Old EU to me. Was it's only purpose to give Rey another lightsabre?

Everything we saw to this point was that Leia was Force sensitive and had some powers, but now out of nowhere for no reason she was a kickass Jedi but decided not to be because we need her not to be otherwise that negates her needing Luke in the first movie, but then she really didn't need Luke in the first movie because she's a kickass Jedi. I'm confused now.

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The story of executive types taking control from creative types is an old one in entertainment so obviously this is possible. I do kinda feel though like its just "excuse time for JJ" though. "He didn't have enough time!!" "Disney hacked the movie up on him!!"

 

Having said that this movie certainly reeks of the worst kind of group think in terms of how it came about. Now whether that is Disney editing the movie outside of JJ or if early in the process there were just too many voices, I don't know. This movie clearly isn't any one persons strongly held belief of what it should be. It's a mess. Even inside some of the bad decisions there are things that make no sense. For instance the whole Rey being a Palpatine thing. Now this is a terrible idea but even once they make the decision its executed terribly.

 

Rey finds out she is a Palpatine, it seems to have a minimal effect on her outside of a line or two about how nobody knows her. Her actions though don;t change. She keeps right on her mission to find the wayfinder and thus Palpatine. She gets on the Death Star wreckage and fight and defeats Kylo. Then she is still such a good and compassionate person she saves his life. At this point she decides to exile herself? What?? For what reason? Because she is a Palpatine? She found that out well earlier in the movie and kept going on. After she gets that knowledge she actually shows how good she still is by saving Kylo. What happened to make her think she is too dangerous and needs to exile herself?

 

Now it could have been done better with just moving a couple things around:

 

1-Rey finds she is a Palpatine

2-Rey uses her power to try to prevent the ship from leaving with Chewie

3-That backfires and the ship crashes, killing Chewie, for realsies though

4-She questions if the power inside her is too dangerous and something she cant control because of her ancestry. Causing Chewies death is what makes her do this.

5-She goes to the island and Luke convinces her to not let failures define her, to learn from it and move on.

 

Thats an actual story that makes sense. It doesn't make the decision to make her a Palpatine a good one but at least within that decision her actions follow some logical sense and have consequences.

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