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The "I've seen The Rise of Skywalker" Thread


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I will not deny that fandom can be mean and spiteful, believes they have some kind of ownership over that of which they are fans, and worst of all can be self-consuming.

 

I will put forth if Star Wars sucks or was ruined, that is not of the fans. As much as fans (toxic or otherwise) like to believe they could write one, make one, act in one, whatever the job is, unless they literally did one or more of those things then they had no hand in what Star Wars was or became. A critic does not make a thing horrible, they could be ***holes about something being horrible however. Lastly, if any Star Wars was literally written by reddit poll, as has been suggested, then even that is not on the fans... who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

You're kidding, right? Much of the fandom is absolutely beyond toxic. Some of these ****heads literally chased Kelly Marie Tran off of social media and into therapy. Her basically disappearing into the scenery in Rise of Skywalker is totally Disney caving to those bottom dwellers.

Im not kidding, I also I believe I well implied my awareness of and understanding of how mean and spiteful fandom can be by literally stating how mean and spiteful fandom can be. Perhaps though, this is another failure to communicate on my part.

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Also, here's a list of the Jedi Voices cameos:   - Obi-Wan Kenobi (both Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness): "These are your final steps, Rey. Rise and take them... Rey... Rise." – Anakin Skywalker: "Re

This is all I took away from that post.

In retrospect we shoulda let Jon Favreu have it!

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I don't think there's a problem with criticizing any of the films for their flaws as films. Not that we have to be film experts or anything. Moreover, we don't all have to sit around and fawn over what a great movie The Phantom Menace was. It had glaring problems. The whole PT did, and the whole ST did. Hell, were we to see even the beloved OT for the first time today, I can't help but wonder how many of us would be asking ourselves what the hell is this?

 

The problem is that sound criticism of the films gave way to vitriolic hate. The Star Wars prequels fast became one of those subjects that you just can't have a reasonable conversation about, particularly online, because someone or another comes on and just starts spewing about how they and Jar Jar and Padme and Anakin and absolutely everything about them just sucked and George Lucas was a terrible person for making them, and you're a terrible person for thinking something so modest as that they might have had the seeds of good ideas and concepts worth exploring, even though the execution was lacking in some ways. Then "you've lost all credibility" in their eyes, or whatever.

 

It's only gotten worse with these Disney sequels. Indeed there's a whole cottage industry of YouTubers and bloggers dedicated to nothing other than ranting and raving about how awful J.J Abrams, Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy are. They even petitioned to have George Lucas - the same George Lucas who ruined their childhoods and ruined Star Wars forever with those awful gungans so that he deserved to be run out of the franchise that he created - come back and do episode IX. Half my suggested YouTube feed these days are these kinds of fanboys now asking if the prequels were really as bad as all that, because the sequels are so much God awful worse. Forget Jar Jar, Rose Tico has now ruined their childhoods and ruined Star Wars forever. So drive her off Instagram. They carry on and on about feminist agenda because the main jedi character is female and I end up having to defend the so called feminists on this one. So what does that tell you? Funny I didn't hear these guys whine and snivel when Leia bossed Han around on the Death Star. Why is this suddenly an issue now when it's been there, albeit subtly, since the very beginning? That's how ridiculous these people are. Of course, the feminists aren't happy about it either. But they're never happy about anything, so what? But I digress. This is beyond SJWs vs reactionaries. It's about how the internet has enabled people to become stupider and more bitter, and this is the price we pay for that.

 

Thing is, if we just descend into this prequels are the worst thing EVER mindset, we don't even get to dissect the films critically, so as to come up with ways that they could have been done better, and thus film as an art be ultimately improved upon. We can't gain that enlightenment because there's no room for nuanced discussion of the pre/sequels because they're just the worst thing ever and George Lucas and Kathleen Kennedy are devil and antichrist respectively for ever having gone near Star Wars and you're a terrible person if you have anything, anything at all even slightly good to say about them.

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One huge problem is that people believe Russian bots are real people. Saying that much of fandom is "beyond toxic" is just destructive. Using what happened to Tran as an example also plays directly into Putin's massively successful campaign to destroy American society. It was a small number of people doing it, and at least 50% were definitely Russian bots. That's not opinion or guessing, it's fact.

 

Most of fandom just wants to share Baby Yoda memes.

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There is undoubtedly an influence from trolls for sure but the level of toxicity from "fans" in general I think is out of control and the real core of the issue is social media. The Last Jedi was impacted by the Russian trolls but I doubt they've got much of a say in it now and still now the level of hatred directed at that film is nuts - there is no-one here guilty of it but look, regardless of what you think of the movie, it's not worth the amount of animosity it gets.

I mean right now, I still a lot of comments which are "well I don't like RoS but love to watch the TLJ fans s**t themselves". . .we're at a point you're happy a movie is s**t cause it annoys the folk who liked the last movie you didn't?

 

Game of Thrones is actually the better example - the final season was disappointing for most who watched it but the absolute hate it gets is on another level. I don't think that's a case of Russian trolls, it's just stemming from a new generation who can't move on from disappointment they just choose to sit there and spite it instead. Imagine if the last season of Lost premiered now. . .

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Well, I saw Return of Skywalker over the holidays and quite enjoyed it. I thought it was better than The Last Jedi, and was quite impressed with how it pulled from Dark Empire regarding the cloning/resurrection of Palpatine. I'd have to shrug and just say that I'm a Star Wars fan, and I enjoyed The Phantom Menace back when it came out, so perhaps I'm not thinking crtically enough, but I just have fun with the films.

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...it's just stemming from a new generation who can't move on from disappointment they just choose to sit there and spite it instead. Imagine if the last season of Lost premiered now. . .

THIS!

 

We all know this happens now with everything...politics, sports...it's not just SW that gets it.

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Turns out that everyone having a voice isn't a good thing. The internet gives an outlet to everyone. You'd think that would be awesome, but as a society we de-platform, shut down, and send bad things to the fringe. You know-- like Nazis and scifi fans.

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Personally I'm overall happy with the Disney output on Star Wars. I have my issues with this movie but I wouldn;t say I dislike it. So really its 5 for 5 for me.

 

I do think though the idea of the story not going smoothly is probably 90% on this movie as compared to TLJ. Now I like TLJ much much more so I'm biased but I'll explain my reasoning:

 

Johnson without doubt did things differently than JJ would have. TROS makes that completely clear. However Johnson may have gone against thinks JJ WOULD have done he didn't really go against anything JJ DID do. Rey being a nobody doesn't contradict anything we see in TFA. In fact most other characters think she is crazy for wanting to wait for her parents. Maz tells her that belonging is not behind her but ahead of her. The main reason people thought she had to have important parents is due to preconcieved notions.

 

Same thing goes for Luke. Now maybe JJ would have had Luke be on that island coming up with some plan to destroy Snoke but nothing in the movie suggests it. In fact what Johnson gives us is very much in line with what Han says happened to Luke in TFA. This doesn't go against anything we actually see in TFA, it undoes nothing. It doesn't change anything we actually saw.

 

Lastly even Snoke, who I can see why people didn't like what he did eventhough I disagree. Nothing in TFA suggests really that his backstory or where he came from is important. Its not like TFA ended with Rey going on a mission to discover more about him only for him to just die. His early death doesn't contradict anything in TFA.

 

 

Then with this movie JJ does actually undue major plot and thematic points from TLJ. In ways discussed in this thread so I won't rehash. Its a different thing. Johnson may have taken a different path than JJ wanted. JJ though actually hit the brakes, turned the car arond and went back before Johnson started driving and then took the path he wanted. Its totally different.

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Personally I'm overall happy with the Disney output on Star Wars. I have my issues with this movie but I wouldn;t say I dislike it. So really its 5 for 5 for me.

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, I have to totally agree. I even enjoyed Solo.Has its issues, but as a film to see in the theater, they all have succeeded.

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Personally I'm overall happy with the Disney output on Star Wars. I have my issues with this movie but I wouldn;t say I dislike it. So really its 5 for 5 for me.

 

At the end of the day, I have to totally agree. I even enjoyed Solo.Has its issues, but as a film to see in the theater, they all have succeeded.

It’s 5/5 for me too. I’ll miss not having a Star Wars film to go see in the Cinema for a couple of years. Looking forward to S2 of Mando and The Child (that kid needs a name) though and when is the Obi Wan series due? Do you think they might be able to get Taika Waititi to direct a Star Wars film?

 

See I just love Star Wars and so does my family. I have no time anymore for the Phandom Menace. I used to argue with them but no more. Of the ST TLJ is still my fav and I agree with Choc’s assessment of JJ’s about turn. Still it didn’t stop me from enjoying RoS for the third time. There was a lot to enjoy if you just sit back and take in the stunning visuals and wonderful Williams score. There are moments of humour, moments of sadness and moments of joy. It’s Star Wars.

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This doesnt really matter but does anyone else think her choosing the last name Skywalker makes no sense in story? I mean her relationship with Luke wasn;t that great when he was alive. She had a much better relationship with Leia, whose name was never Skywalker, but was Solo. Her best relationship (at least as presented on screen) is with Han, also last name Solo. The man she was in love with and who her connection with is really the heart of the entire trilogy is also Solo.

 

Basically shouldnt she be Rey Solo? LOL

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You make a good point. She shouldve said just Rey like you mentioned in another post or if she was going to take on a surrogate family name Solo wouldve fit better. Just like in Titanic when Rose Dewitt-Bukater took on the name Rose Dawson when she arrived in NY after the sinking and death of Jack.

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You make a good point. She shouldve said just Rey like you mentioned in another post or if she was going to take on a surrogate family name Solo wouldve fit better. Just like in Titanic when Rose Dewitt-Bukater took on the name Rose Dawson when she arrived in NY after the sinking and death of Jack.

Jeeze-- spoilers. Dick.

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You didnt know the ship sank? Sorry.

 

The writer said he wanted to make ROS into a two-part finale. But they decided against it because Lucas had said this was always a 9 part story and they did not want to go against that. I find that an odd reason to not make the films how you best see fit. Would it have been better had there been an Episode 9 and a 9.5?

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Personally I'm overall happy with the Disney output on Star Wars.

 

I've been putting thought into this since I saw Rise of Skywalker. I think Disney has been moderately successful with Star Wars in spite of itself.

 

They gave JJ and Rian a lot of creative freedom, when benefitted each trilogy film individually. But like I said, the baton-passing really hurt it as a full trilogy. I really wish they'd entrusted Gareth Edwards and Miller / Lord with the same respect. Rogue One was a miracle, and it still feels like there were at least the ingredients for Solo to have been better than it was.

 

As of today, I'd probably say the best thing they've done is a tie between The Last Jedi and The Mandalorian. And probably because they trusted solid visionaries like Rian and Favreau / Filloni to just go and do their thing.

 

I'm not really ready to join the chorus of finding someone new to replace Kennedy, but I don't think it's a stretch to think that she's starting to get herself on thin ice.

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Personally I'm overall happy with the Disney output on Star Wars.

 

I've been putting thought into this since I saw Rise of Skywalker. I think Disney has been moderately successful with Star Wars in spite of itself.

 

They gave JJ and Rian a lot of creative freedom, when benefitted each trilogy film individually. But like I said, the baton-passing really hurt it as a full trilogy. I really wish they'd entrusted Gareth Edwards and Miller / Lord with the same respect. Rogue One was a miracle, and it still feels like there were at least the ingredients for Solo to have been better than it was.

 

As of today, I'd probably say the best thing they've done is a tie between The Last Jedi and The Mandalorian. And probably because they trusted solid visionaries like Rian and Favreau / Filloni to just go and do their thing.

 

I'm not really ready to join the chorus of finding someone new to replace Kennedy, but I don't think it's a stretch to think that she's starting to get herself on thin ice.

 

One of my biggest issues is just the whole signalling in TROS that the OT is more important than the ST. I mean when you are basically telling fans that with your creative decisions what do you expect those fans to think?

 

It works well in TFA, it makes sense. It;s almost a metaphor to the real world state of the movies. Any Star Wars movie is going to be in the shadow of the OT and this movie is. The characters themselves are in awe of anything from that era. They can barely believe Luke even existed because the stories about him are so great. It works and it makes sense.

 

Then TLJ tries to break from that. Luke isn't some perfect hero, Kylo becomes the main villain on his own. Rey's power isn't attached to any OT character. Even the whole thing Luke says at the end "the war is just beginning....the rebellion is reborn....I will not be the last Jedi". It signals the OT is great and we will always love it but we are moving on with this story and these characters.

 

Then this movie just goes right back to the primacy of the OT. Right from the start with Palpatine being back, then obviously Rey has hew power from an OT character. At the beginning "I will earn your brothers lightsaber". I mean I guess facing Kylo twice, going to face Snoke, helping save the entire Resistance at the end of TLJ. Just not enough. This character and by extension the entire movie and trilogy is still in JJs view "not worthy". Its insane. Kylo's final decision to turn good isn't because of Rey, who his relationship with is the heart of the trilogy, its because of a memory of his dad. The sabers used to defeat Palpatine are Luke and Leias. Rey finds her new identity from Luke and Leias name.

 

I dislike alot of the decisions made in this movie but the real problem is that these decisions are all made in service of "The OT is soooooo important." It really makes zero sense and cuts the legs out of this movie.

 

And I don;t want to blame certain fans for this because Disney doesn't have to listen to anyone. But the fact that Disney had RJ be the only guy to make it through a whole movie and they decided to announce a new trilogy for him shows me that TROS isn't a reaction to what Disney actually thinks of TLJ, its a reaction to the reaction to TLJ. It's almost like they said "ok, listen these nerds are so invested in the OT that anything which challenges anything about them or even tries to make these new movies stand on their own outside of the OT upsets them. So ok the OT is great!! we will bring back the villain, we will have an old charcter be key in Kylos redemption, we will have the sabers which save the day be old ones, we will have our new main character name herself after the old characters you love. Its perfectly cool that you love those old movies so much and have so much invested in them. You shouldn't feel bad that your self worth is entangled with them."

 

I;d just like to add I don't think that last sentiment applies to anyone who is currently posting on this board. Maybe a person or two who used to, but no one still here. So if you hate TLJ and love this movie that is fine and I;m not saying you are one of the fans Im talking about here. Although I think we'd all have to agree people like that exist.

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As far as some of those points go, I think it was a really bad narrative decision for JJ to bring Palpatine back.

I get that they wanted a big character to tie things back into both previous trilogies. It might have worked, but they handwaved everything away about how he survived and why he mattered. Even the big fleet that he brings out makes no damn sense whatsoever. Who built that? How long was it hiding under the dirt? Why didn't he use the mini Death Star tech on OT era Star Destroyers? It's just so convoluted and lazy.

Also, Palpatine has no ties whatsoever to anyone. Rey being his granddaughter is totally shoehorned in and was not earned in any capacity. He has absolutely no relation whatsoever to Kylo, other than being his grandpa's master. And that's barely even touched on at all.

 

I'll never understand why JJ and Terrio didn't bring in Anakin's ghost as that big tie-in instead of Palpatine. It would have made so much sense for Kylo to be able to relate to the guy he's idolized for years, and Rey might have been able to have some really great dialogue where her mentor's dad. Plus Hayden has barely aged. It just makes too much sense.

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And crucially why is he gone now? I don;t want or need an explanation for everything but what about this time is different? In Harry Potter we know why Voldermort comes back, its explained by horcruxes. So once they are all gone and Voldermort killed it makes sense he is gone for good. By not explaining how he came back and allowing the good guys to take that away from him going forward there is zero to indicate he is truly gone this time. Thats why an explanation in this case is warranted.

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