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The "I've seen The Rise of Skywalker" Thread
Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:04 PM
Tried to send it-- but for some reason the system is telling me I can't upload files bigger than 34k?
PM me your emails and I'll just send it direct.
Overall, I liked some of it better than TROS, some of it not.
It's not a level playing field to compare a script to a finished movie, especially when the amount of ADR in TROS tells me that it was butchered in post with a crap ton of notes and reshoots. It's very possible had DOTF been shot as it is on the page, it still could have come out a mess if Disney was interfering as much as they say.
Things that were better than TROS:
- the emotional core of the ST three with a hefty side of Rose, Chewie and Leia. They felt like a family
- the basic plot/mission; I liked the idea of a Jedi com system
- emboldening the ideals of resistance and rebellion against tyranny; it was a little ham-fisted, but it seemed appropriate
- cohesion, where TROS tried to undo or ignore TLJ, this took moments from both it and TFA and moved forward
- The Knights of Ren made a bit more sense as other former students of Luke
Things I didn't like:
- It was clear that this story didn't know what to do with Kylo, Luke, or Leia. The the idea that this was supposed to be Leia's movie the way Han got TFA and Luke got TLJ seems iffy to me. Kylo basically had Obi-Wan's storyline from ROTS, a scavenger hunt barely connected to the plot to keep him busy until the final fight.
- The Sith Master was uneven as hell. Why is he alive, he says he's powerless, but then shows great power and knowledge, but then Kylo kills him after FAILING a test... just meh
- The Mortis stuff, I didn't like it in TCW, felt pointless to have here. Had no weight or bearing in the story
- Rey as a Gray Jedi. It's funny-- I spent years arguing on here that Luke was different in that he used the dark side, but came back. I always though his generation of Jedi should have been more passionate-- but now, after seeing Rey go that way. I didn't like. It felt very EU to me.
- Rey's parentage-- TLJ's proclamation that she really was a nobody was rolled back here as well; not as over the top as her being a Palpatine, but it still fell flat as a very obvious and tired point that we'd expect. Her being a nobody was a cool idea.
- Poe and Rey... I don't buy it. I liked their relationship in TROS better. As much as people don't love it, Rey/Kylo is makes sense
Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:18 PM
Things I didn't like:
- The the idea that this was supposed to be Leia's movie the way Han got TFA and Luke got TLJ seems iffy to me.
I haven’t read the actual script but this was the impression I got from the overviews as well. Which annoyed me a lot - I was naive enough to believe Disney/Lucasfilm when they said the third film would be Leia’s and the big part she would have to play. Clearly it’s just bulls**t they pulled after Carrie died to make it sound like her part was larger than it was.
Posted 10 February 2020 - 01:20 PM
It was about equal to both time and content to what she was in TLJ. There's no great moment, like with Han's "It's true" monologue, or his reunion with Kylo... or Luke's return in TLJs third act. She def does not get a banner, character defining moment like that in this script.
Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:24 PM
With all the caveats Tank said about the long process from page to screen (this script was written 3 years before TROS released) here are some thoughts. I was able to find the script online elsewhere.
I agree with most of what Tank liked. In fact I'd say a couple of the things he said are the key elements. This really does feel like the sequel to TLJ and TFA. I think if this movie was made that most of the complaint about the ST being uneven would be gone. Not 100% of them, but maybe 75%.
On Rey: Obviously the main character of the whole thing and I think this movie really does a great job with her. The whole "gray Jedi" thing (I hate that term btw) just works right. The whole idea that she isn't just the next Jedi, she is something new and better is just right. She isn't going to allow 1000 year old rules made by some dead guy control her life. She isn't going to not be attached to Poe because of it. My feelings on the romance are that its not like some epic, sweeping thing that dominates the movie. Plus it plays into her not just following the Jedi orthodoxy so in the end I like it.
I also really like the idea that the First Order is shutting down communications in the Galaxy. A very authouritarian thing to do. Like Tank said I really liked seeing the actual opressed people of the galaxy.
One thing I have to disagree with though is that this script doesn;t know what to do with Luke. He has some great moments here I think. I won't get into them all but his confrontation with Kylo near the end is just perfect. The whole "the force binds us all...". It builds so perfectly on TLJ "The Jedi don;t own the Force" idea plus even cooler it really harkens back to the very first lesson Luke, and thus us, ever got in the Force. In Ben's hovel when he tells Luke "the Force is an energy field, it surrounds us, penetrates us, binds the galaxy together." I really felt that moment could have been really powerful with cutting to the characters fighting on Coruscant all sensing Rey is in trouble and encouraging her.
I feel the new info on Reys parentage is kinda meh. It doesn;t really affect much. It at least pays off the visions of the Knights of Ren.
- Tank +1 this
Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:42 PM
As for Leia, she has some cool moments. Although like Tank said no moment as cool as some of what Han or Luke got in TFA or TLJ. The meeting with Lando seemed very cool though. I kinda envision it like in Raiders when Indy walks into Marion's bar. Its even written to suggest its an homage to that scene, describing seeing Leias shadow on the floor first. I also like when Lando says "we won a war once, where did it get us". This is an important question that should be asked in this movie. Why is this different? Ofcourse the answer this movie chooses is Rey mastering both sides of the Force. Leia though says to Lando "it proved me could." Which for me kinda hits on the idea that evil must always be fought, even if the victory isn't permanent.
The whole Lando showing up at the end here is much better in this version too. In TROS its basically "hey Lando, go get some guys" and he does. The galaxy comes together but its just a quick thing. In DOTF it really feels like various factions coming together to defeat The First Order. Between the actual Resistance, the opressed people of Coruscant rising up, the defecting storm troopers and Landro showing up with the "scoundrels". It feels like disparate groups rising up to defeat this enemy and is a major part of the movie. Not "hey Lando get some guys."
In the end this script isn't perfect and Im not saying if Colin had been left in charge we'd have gotten the greatest Star Wars movie ever. Although I do truly believe we would have gotten something better than we got. TROS is bad at it's core. The ideas present in it are bad. The good aspects of it which I like are all in service of a bad end. This movie has the right ideas at it's core so even the parts I don't love are in service of a good end.
Like Tank said in his parts he liked this movie really makes the core ST characters feel like a family, it feels like the end of their story. It is a good, logical conclusion to the ST. Treverrow seems to have really sat down and thought "ok, what do I have to do to make this all come together." I feel he mostly accomplished this. If you feel the movie serviced the main characters well and was a good, proper sequel and finale to the ST then it accomplished 2 of it's prime goals.
Posted 12 February 2020 - 06:44 PM
Not sure why but this just popped into my head, the Disney era has done an insanely great job with droids. BB-8, K2SO and L3-37 are all absolutely awesome. Even that little new droid in TROS is pretty cool. Thats is, just thought I'd throw that out there.
- monkwich +1 this