Jump to content

Welcome to Nightly.Net
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

The "I've seen The Rise of Skywalker" Thread


489 replies to this topic

#226
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

Seriously, how bad must Treverrow's script have been to make them go with this? 



#227
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts

We'll never know. They may not have thought it was bad, it may have been, but we have no way of knowing. I think the primary blow was Carrie Fisher's death. That forced them to start over. With Treverrow out, they had no need to use his material. He does have a story credit, which means at the very least he set them on a path to what they ultimately made... but Terrio amidst his damage control and ego has said more than once that they used nothing of his.

 

When I look at this movie, I see them shooting with a script that was rushed to begin with, then there were extensive reshoots, and they had too much material to be efficient with, so they used an endless amount of ADR script work to cover how much of a mess things were.



#228
Odine

Odine

    Member

  • Supporters
  • 2,598 posts
Considering the complications with writing, production and post production (which I didn't know about) I'm surprised the movie is as good as it is. It could been a lot worse given the circumstances.

The greatest thing about the ST has been the design. Costumes, ships, and environments have been mind blowing. The art team has been amazing

#229
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts
Disagree on the "being good part."

But hard agree on the production design.

#230
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 20,053 posts

As good as it was doesn’t necessarily mean good, just that it could have been worse. You didn’t rate it as the worst Star Wars movie, so you obviously agree.



#231
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts

I agree that it was good? Nah-- it was bad... but when it comes to Star Wars there's definitely WORSE. Just because it's better than AOTC doesn't mean it's a good movie. Ishtar is better than AOTC. Spiceworld is better than AOTC. I wouldn't say that makes them good.

 

As for Treverrow's script... apparently it's leaked and somebody did a review... and somebody else on reddit recapped it so I don't gave to watch it:

 

https://www.reddit.c...early_draft_of/

 

If this is legit, this could have been a better movie... maybe... but it has a lot of the same EU fan wanking and extra layer of coded nerdy that TROS has. It's a recap of a review of a script, so it's hard to judge fairly, but it doesn't feel like much in the way of heart or character is going on.

 

Also, for the movie that was supposed to really revolve around Leia, it doesn't.


  • The Kurgan +1 this

#232
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

I agree that it was good? Nah-- it was bad... but when it comes to Star Wars there's definitely WORSE. Just because it's better than AOTC doesn't mean it's a good movie. Ishtar is better than AOTC. Spiceworld is better than AOTC. I wouldn't say that makes them good.

 

As for Treverrow's script... apparently it's leaked and somebody did a review... and somebody else on reddit recapped it so I don't gave to watch it:

 

https://www.reddit.c...early_draft_of/

 

If this is legit, this could have been a better movie... maybe... but it has a lot of the same EU fan wanking and extra layer of coded nerdy that TROS has. It's a recap of a review of a script, so it's hard to judge fairly, but it doesn't feel like much in the way of heart or character is going on.

 

Also, for the movie that was supposed to really revolve around Leia, it doesn't.

Some of it has that scavenger hunt feel of the actual movie. I like that it's ya know actually about the Resistance and the First Order rather than some super duper fleet that the Emperor had built. That alone almost guarantees its better. 

 

I do kinda feel like this is a much better framework and general idea of what the movie should have been than what we got. Leia's role doesn't seem so large that it couldn't have been worked around either. These ideas seem pretty solid and considering the date is 3 years before the release of the movie (2.5 actually because before JJ was put in charge it was a May release) it feels like it easily could have been worked into something quite good. I wonder what could have happened in the 10 or so months between this and when he was fired because this script doesn;t seem like something that would lead to someone being fired?



#233
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

Whats funny is kinda liek how Tank (and then I completely copying from him) did a "my version of the prequels" I was working on a "My version of Episode X" and seriously it had the Resistance stealing a Star Destroyer (during a storm trooper revolt led by Finn) and a Resistance attack on Coruscant as the re-constituted capital of the galaxy.  Oh and it also had Kylo destroying the Vader helmet. LOL


  • Tank +1 this

#234
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

.


 

 



#235
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts

More than anything Treverrow was fired because his last film was one of the biggest bombs in modern cinema. I think the JW movies have done fine, so I'm not sure if it was that alone, or something else.

 

Depending on your reddit thread of choice, he was fired because Disney wanted Abrams back, he was difficult and didn't want to re-write, or Kathy Kennedy didn't want him around because the process with RJ was so smooth and she wanted him to do it.

 

They like to say it was part in due to Carrie's death, but if this treatment is true, they could have worked around her because she wasn't that involved.

 

TBH, neither his script or what we got would have felt good to me.



#236
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

Its certainly not perfect. I don't like the whole Rey going to see a "seer" who can pull stuff from memories. i dont like Kylo going getting training from some ancient Sith Lord monster thing. (although seeing someone training in the dark side in general could be cool). However just that the focus stays on the First Order and the Resistance rather than some Sith Fleet is a huge improvement. Plus some of the other ideas present:

 

Rey saying Finn shows her that anyone can change. I mean Finns defection actually having an affect on something? novel concept

 

When Leia says Rey isn't like Luke but is something different, I love this.

 

Luke and Reys talk about the the dark and light fight over and over and over again.

 

 

It feels like some of these ideas would be given more time in the script than in the summary I read. Maybe not but logically they feel like story elements that woulda had some payoff. The summation I read, which Ive seen on a few sites, seems to get very general near the climax. Seemingly with Rey and Kylo ona  different planet than the final battle. This seems unlikely. They had to be somewhat intertwined I think. Which leads me to believe that how some of these ideas play out in the third act isn't complte in the summary. (Im not going to watch the video of the guy with the actual script because its 2 hours long). In reality I don't like a couple of the ideas like I said in my first paragraph here but even those things I don't like I still do like better than a Sith Wayfinder or a dagger that somehow leads to a Sith Wayfinder or Palpatine being back or Rey being a Palpatine. 



#237
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 20,053 posts

Disagree on the "being good part."

But hard agree on the production design.


My point is that the post you're replying to doesn't say it was good. Just that given the rumors, it's surprising that it was as good as it was. It's like saying that given how incredibly stupid Trump is, it's surprising that his speeches are as good as they are.
  • Odine +1 this

#238
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

I got a bit more into this today, listening to some stuff on my drives to and from work. Now I'll preface this by saying that firstly this could still all be fake although I kinda think its real at this point. Secondly many things can go wrong between paper and screen so not saying we would have gotten some great movie had they kept Colin. Having said that I really love some of the stuff in this. Especially something like this:

 

There is a scene in the third act where Kylo has defeated Rey and essentially left her for dead. He is searching for something he believes will make him nearly all powerful. Luke's force ghost shows up and they have an exchange. Luke basically tells Kylo that he can't win, its impossible. No matter how powerful he gets he cannot truly win. The Force is too powerful. It's all living things. It binds all living things together. You cannot defeat this. During this it cuts away to Poe who is flying an X Wing in battle and he feels Rey in troble and reaches out to her. It cuts to Finn fighting a battle and he also feels Rey and reaches out to her. This spurs Rey up to go confront Kylo again.

 

This is exactly the kind of thing, the kind of idea this movie needed. It not only continues thoughts from TLJ like anyone can have the Force and that the Force doesn't belong to just the Jedi. It continues on from the very first words we ever heard about The Force when Ben tells Luke "The Force is an energy field, it surrounds us, penetrates us, it binds the Galaxy together." And it doesn't mean Poe or Finn are "Force sensitive" in the way we normally think. It means EVERY living thing is connected to The Force. Its exactly the kind of thing that should have mattered in this movie. 

 

Also a scene where Lando says to Leia "we wont a war before what good did that do?". Again this is the kinda of idea that should be in this movie. Why is this the end? Why is this victory over the bad guys more meaningful and permanent than the last time they beat the bad guys? 

 

Like I said alot can go wrong from paper to screen. Maybe Colin would have been inept behind the camera and unable to draw performances from the cast? Who knows? But the ideas present in this script are so much better as a foundation for the movie than anything that is actually in TROS. 


  • Tank +1 this

#239
Dark Wader

Dark Wader

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,553 posts

The fact Mortis is not only mentioned but plays a big part throughout screams “fake” to me. Realise it’s apparently been verified but it honestly just sounds like another case of a fanboy somewhere writing what they wanted to happen. 



#240
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

The fact Mortis is not only mentioned but plays a big part throughout screams “fake” to me. Realise it’s apparently been verified but it honestly just sounds like another case of a fanboy somewhere writing what they wanted to happen. 

Normally I'd agree but a this point this would be a pretty big hoax. Its certainly possible that after getting hired Colin watched everything Star Wars he could and when he saw this idea he liked it and decided to use it. 

 

I don't by any means like everything purported to be in this script. I don't really like the idea of Mortis as some sort of "fountain of the force" or whatever. NO movie is going to agree with every POV a person has. Whats presented here though falls much more in line with what I believe would ahve been right.

 

Hell the climax is essentially Rey mastering the light and darksides of the Force which is something I created a thread about. 



#241
Dark Wader

Dark Wader

    Member

  • Member
  • 2,553 posts

 

Normally I'd agree but a this point this would be a pretty big hoax. Its certainly possible that after getting hired Colin watched everything Star Wars he could and when he saw this idea he liked it and decided to use it. 

 

 

Yeah fair point - the fact it's been verified in a couple of spots probably means it's not a fake, but there were a couple of other things that raised my eyebrow - Rose's comment about "Rich folk don't notice the smaller folk" (or something like that) just feels like a leftover line from the TLJ screenplay. 

 

This came out today and is apparently the "final" draft version of the script before Colin was sacked: 

 

https://makingstarwa...sode-ix-script/

 

I'll be impressed if anyone can read it though because it's a ******* mess. The actual article/notes, not the story/script. Though that could be a mess too. 



#242
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts

That script would have resulted in a movie just as choppy and busy as TROS. WAY too much. If you look at the beats of the OT films they are a fraction of this. 


  • captainbleh +1 this

#243
Metropolis

Metropolis

    Member

  • Member
  • 15,201 posts
What we really want to know is if Anakin's lightsaber underwent anymore cosmetic changes Tank? Actually serious. I don't know how you catch those little details.

#244
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 20,053 posts

That script would have resulted in a movie just as choppy and busy as TROS. WAY too much. If you look at the beats of the OT films they are a fraction of this. 


I don't know that many people could do a good job with what Lucasfilm wanted. There was never a solid plan, so someone had to come up with a way to try to tie the loose ends together, AND they wanted a capstone to the saga, even though it already had a capstone. 1-6 were self contained, 7-9 didn't have to finish it. Lucasfilm wanted too much and it was destined to be a mess.

#245
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

That script would have resulted in a movie just as choppy and busy as TROS. WAY too much. If you look at the beats of the OT films they are a fraction of this. 

I agree, like I said Im not saying we would have gotten a great movie by any means. Just saying there are the right ideas present in this script whereas TROS really is devoid of good ideas. 


  • Tank +1 this

#246
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts

What we really want to know is if Anakin's lightsaber underwent anymore cosmetic changes Tank? Actually serious. I don't know how you catch those little details.

Ha! Yes it did! The mid section was all new and original, had a leather wrap like Rey's arm bands and one of the grips was also a belt clip. You could also see cosmetic stuff like faux weld marks to sell the idea Rey put it back together after it split in TLJ. I'm working on a new edition of the guidebook I do. Should be out soon.

That script would have resulted in a movie just as choppy and busy as TROS. WAY too much. If you look at the beats of the OT films they are a fraction of this. 

I don't know that many people could do a good job with what Lucasfilm wanted. There was never a solid plan, so someone had to come up with a way to try to tie the loose ends together, AND they wanted a capstone to the saga, even though it already had a capstone. 1-6 were self contained, 7-9 didn't have to finish it. Lucasfilm wanted too much and it was destined to be a mess.

You're not wrong, but I'd say 1-3 were just as much of an unneeded addition to the existing story. It's no less guilty than the ST of recontextualizing and retconning the OT.

How much would our minds have been blown if the PT didn't end with the birth of Vader and the twins, but instead with Obi-Wan meeting Anakin and taking him in. Three movies of Obi-Wan in the Clone Wars, and in Episode 3 he's assigned a hotshot pilot he feels the force in, and his training ends the movie.

Then everything we know happens from the OT does so between trilogies. We don't need to see it because we already know what happens.
  • Filthy Jawa +1 this

#247
Brando

Brando

    83% Muppet

  • Admin
  • 20,053 posts

 


You're not wrong, but I'd say 1-3 were just as much of an unneeded addition to the existing story. It's no less guilty than the ST of recontextualizing and retconning the OT.

How much would our minds have been blown if the PT didn't end with the birth of Vader and the twins, but instead with Obi-Wan meeting Anakin and taking him in. Three movies of Obi-Wan in the Clone Wars, and in Episode 3 he's assigned a hotshot pilot he feels the force in, and his training ends the movie.

Then everything we know happens from the OT does so between trilogies. We don't need to see it because we already know what happens.

 

1-3 weren't needed, and did change how you viewed certain aspects of the OT (mainly by turning Vader into the biggest whiny baby in the galaxy), but the ST, specifically Episode 9, goes way beyond anything they did.  Mainly because they intentionally and repeatedly stated in their marketing that Episode 9 was the cap of the PT and the OT. The choices they made in order to do that overshadow the OT to the point that it makes ROTJ almost meaningless, at least from a galactic standpoint.  

 

Beyond that, you could make the argument that it's the end of the Skywalker Saga because the Skywalkers are all dead, except they didn't even have the guts to go there, by making Rey take the name Skywalker. 

 

The decisions they made were just weird. It was like they wanted to be daring but then also wanted to play it completely safe, and I can't imagine it working well. From what I've read and the clips I've watched, it probably didn't work that well.  But I'll still watch it eventually.



#248
Tank

Tank

    Driver

  • Member
  • 35,462 posts
I'd say that the PT "ruined" the OT way more than the ST did. It changed the context of so many things and turned Vader into a man baby.

...but then TROS comes out and invalidates Luke's victory..

#249
D-Ray Kenobi

D-Ray Kenobi

    Member

  • Member
  • 15,355 posts

I said a month ago that I would need time to let this settle in.  I did, and I just have to conclude that I don't like it.

Rey being a Palpatine is totally a last minute thing from JJ that clearly was not planned by the Story Group.  The Last Jedi had such a twist that was almost to the "I am your father" level of gut punches.  I imagine that back in 1983, finding out that Vader was Luke's Dad was the most painful thing that the audience could have heard.  Rey being a nobody was almost that kind of gut punch.  We spent two years theorizing about it only to find out that she wasn't connected to anything or anybody.  That was disappointing, but also awesome in a way.  It showed that you didn't have to be connected to a royal galactic bloodline to be special.  The little bit with the broom boy in the last shot was Rian signing off on that.  It was such a special notion that turned Star Wars on its head in such a fun way.

But then Rise of Skywalker comes along and ruins all that.  Rey adopting the Skywalker name is really cool and actually makes a lot of narrative sense, even if the way she does that is a little clunky in the last scene.  Her being the product of Creepy McCreeperson Palpatine getting it on after he's given Order 66? (Do the math.)  No.  That's stupid.  Maybe in some other draft of that script where it focused more on the Yin and Yang of her and Kylo, it might have had at least a grain or two of sense.  But sorry, it's just so stupid here.  It trashes everything The Last Jedi built and it more or less betrays the ethos of the whole Skywalker series of films as well.

This isn't even to mention the half-assed script or the whirlwind and poorly edited first half of the movie.  At this point, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed.  



#250
The Choc

The Choc

    Member

  • Member
  • 9,363 posts

You are 100% right. Bringing him back is just such an obvious idea in terms of trying to close it all out. No imagination at all. The idea of Rey having to master both sides of The Force to bring about ultimate balance, you may not like the idea, you may flat hate it. But at least its an idea. At least its worth debating. At least now at the end there is a reason to believe this is a climax to the saga. 





Reply to this topic