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Joker


58 replies to this topic

#51
Odine

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Still haven't seen it but really wanna

#52
D-Ray Kenobi

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I kind of feel like my thinking on this has changed a bit since I saw it back in the Fall.

I still think it's good.  But Best Picture good?  Not really.  It raises a very empathetic conversation about mental health, but stylistically and thematically it steals literally everything interesting from Scorsese.

Like, how does a movie that's essentially a tribute to Scorsese beat out an actual Scorsese movie in terms of nominations?  Granted, Phoenix had the performance of a lifetime in this and earned his Best Actor nomination, but DeNiro didn't in the actual Scorsese movie?  It's so funny that he was miscast in Joker and had a horrible phoned in performance in that, but yet acted his ass off in The Irishman and got snubbed for it.

I still like Joker, but I don't love it anymore.  It just feels like if it weren't for all of the Oscar nomination love, its biggest cultural significance would have been having its posters hung up in every Freshman dorm room.



#53
Justus

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I'm loving all of the fake outrage / meltdown about Phillips, somehow accusing his mere existence as a nominee for depriving females of a Best Director nomination...yet say next to nothing about the other males nominated. I see this is their last gasp after all of the pre-release "incel" / promises that Joker would inspire mass shootings (there's no low for this crowd)  BS did not work.



#54
Dark Wader

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That's not in anyway indicative of the larger population though, that's a pretty specific vocal minority if anything. I've heard the same sh*t said about Tarantino for eons and still do, but it's hardly representative of the audience. 



#55
Tank

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It's correlation vs causation.

 

COULD Joker be manfiesto for incels to latch on to and claim is their story? Absolutely.

 

But that doesn't mean those are the only people seeing it. It wouldn't be award bait if that were the case.

 

Like I said, I liked it, but my big takeaway is that it's a bummer DC/WB won't take a chance to get weird and experimental with an actual Batman movie. 



#56
Brando

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At least they're willing to get weird with the animated stuff. Have you seen Batman Ninja?

#57
Tank

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At least they're willing to get weird with the animated stuff. Have you seen Batman Ninja?

It's funny, with Marvel and DC they are exact opposites with Animation vs live action. Marvel's killing it onscreen, but their animated stuff is subpar. But DC's animated stuff is the best versions of their characters.


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#58
Metropolis

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The advice I got for this was to seperate the thought of Batman from the story and I would enjoy it. I probably would have enjoyed it anyways, but it was good advice. It is hard picturing this Joker in the Batman universe. This Joker is disturbed, but a criminal mastermind? Maybe. What I found interesting was the portrayal of Thomas Wayne. Didn't come if as likeable. Made me wonder IF, maybe he was capable of being the Joker's dad. He a rich dude. He could have falsified all of those documents. Probably not, but there is a sense of doubt there.

#59
Odine

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Finally seen it. Loved it.

I can understand how people can't see Arthur Fleck as a criminal mastermind, and they would be correct. The manifestation of his Id, i.e Joker, most certainly is capable, however, as evidenced in the chaos he creates in the film's climactic final third. In this final third, Joker comes into existance once Fleck dyes his hair green, shortly before some old clown colleagues pay a visit. From that point on Arthur Fleck is dead, as the Joker has taken over. In judging whether he is capable of being a criminal mastermind one must disregard the hopeless personality of Arthur Fleck, his somewhat sympathetic incel character is irrelevant. For the Joker is a different person all together, he is the manifestation of Fleck's Id (the counterpoint to his Ego, which is the virtuous comedian star) And is only properly birthed in that final third of the film. So we only get to see the beginnings of Joker and his potential. Id say his public execution of DeNiros character, and the storm it creates amongst the population speak volumes to his potential as a charismatic leader of chaos and the downtrodden of Gotham, in a sick, perverted way.

Sure the film might be a homage to Scorcese but it was still fantastic. Joaquim Phoenix deserved the Oscar in my opinion. He was amazing as Arthur Fleck and his Joker was electric, channelling just enough of Heath Ledger's incantation as well.

Loved it.

Edited by Odine, 22 March 2020 - 12:33 PM.




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