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Ewan McGreggor coming back as Obi-Wan


Darth Krawlie
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On 6/22/2022 at 9:44 AM, Metropolis said:

I've resigned myself to the fact that to add to the mythos you sometimes have to step on the toes of what's already been done. Obi Wan's relationship with Leia undermines how Leia perceives Ben in ANH. She should be we upset if not more when he dies in ANH. But thems the breaks folks. 

I really think they should have kept Obi-Wan's identity a secret in this, especially from Leia. If she had known him only as "Ben", it would make sense that she never connected Obi-Wan and Ben in her mind until much, much later. It would also make sense that she named her son Ben after the man that saved her since she would have lived with only that identity in her mind for 15+ years. 

And the lack of a high ground joke is a huge missed opportunity. 

Overall, this whole series fell flat to me. I mean, it's just hard to create good suspense when you already know everyone survives. The whole Reva/Luke thing was very eyerolling to me because of this. We already knew she wasn't going to kill him or harm him in any way, so her "inner conflict" didn't mean anything. Especially since we just went through this with her in the previous episode with Vader, only then there was more suspense because we didn't know if she would survive. 

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I get the whole the stakes aren't there thing but at the same time when watching say the Mandalorian its not like you watch the 3rd episode of a season and think "OMG he may not get out of this one, he is gonna die." 

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5 hours ago, Cerina said:

Overall, this whole series fell flat to me. I mean, it's just hard to create good suspense when you already know everyone survives. The whole Reva/Luke thing was very eyerolling to me because of this. We already knew she wasn't going to kill him or harm him in any way, so her "inner conflict" didn't mean anything. Especially since we just went through this with her in the previous episode with Vader, only then there was more suspense because we didn't know if she would survive. 

I think they should've just killed her. We didn't need another former Jedi turned evil Force user turns back to the light again. Vader and Kylo are enough. I would’ve rather seen something like when Luke is down and she’s about to strike the killing blow, Owen or Beru shoot her. Obi Wan arrives just as she dies. Maybe she gets a few words out to him before she goes. But that's it, because as you said, the whole inner confilct thing was overplayed and obvious. It felt like they made this episode as if ANH didn't exist.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Yeah, for sure. Im not saying it was some profound revelation. As JG said the paralels watching were obvious. Just thought it was a nice job putting the graphic together and somewhat interesting in terms of just how close some of the shots are. 

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On 6/23/2022 at 6:14 PM, Lord Darth Hunter said:

I think they should've just killed her. We didn't need another former Jedi turned evil Force user turns back to the light again. Vader and Kylo are enough. 

I haven't watched the show, because I knew somehow squeezing it into an already established timeline would mitigate the larger story somehow, and I would end up bitter.  I guess I was right.  Yoda told Luke several times in the OT that there is no coming back from the dark side.  Anakin's return in ROTJ was sold to us as nothing short of a miracle.  That's what made it so impactful.  Then Kylo goes and does the same thing.  I guess Yoda was wrong.  I guess it's not that hard to shake off the dark side after all.  Now another dark sider turns back?   What was once supposed to be an exception to the rule has become a Star Wars trope.  It kinda makes Yoda look like an idiot now doesn't it? 

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When does Yoda say you can’t come back from the Dark Side? That would of been a stupid statement for him to make even before Kylo and Reva existed on paper. 

Vader’s redemption was seen as a miracle because of how far he’d fallen and how long he’d be gone. Kylo was conflicted from the start and his redemption played out a lot differently.
 

Reva wasn’t a case of a Jedi who was seduced by the dark side - she was never able to become a Jedi and was just trying to find a way to get back and kill/hurt the person who took everything from her. 

Anyway, the fundamental trope of Star Wars is still in tact - good overcomes evil. I don’t think this show does anything to mitigate that at all. 

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Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.

 

 

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Yeah but Yoda’s an asshole. He’s the teacher trope character that insults the apprentice for not knowing things they couldn’t possibly know, yet refuse to tell them, then expect an apology later when the apprentice saves the day with little to no help from said teacher. Yoda never gave a shit about Luke. He only cared about winning. Fuck Yoda. Obi-Wan, though flawed himself, actually gave a shit and could admit when he was wrong. Yoda never did and never could. Most overrated character from the OT.

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I think the thing with Reva is this:  she didn't kill Luke because she had a conscience, but she isn't necessarily redeemed or good. She killed a buttload of jedi, and anyone else who got in the way.  She just didn't kill Luke, but that doesn't mean she is good.  Unlike Vader, however, she didn't do anything to redeem herself the way Vader did.  At the very end, Vader sacrificed himself to save Luke and the rest of the galaxy by killing the emperor.  Reva on the other hand, only realized she had become the monster she sought to kill, but she didn't really atone, either.  Just because one doesn't commit an evil act, doesn't make one good.  I think that is a big difference.  

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5 hours ago, Quetzalcoatl said:

Yep.  Yoda repeats this to Luke later in ROTJ.  The OT really hammered home the idea that, once the dark side has you, it never lets you go.

And the OT ends on a dark side coming back to the light. Admittedly I forgot that quote but the OT wasn’t hammering home that you can’t come back from the Dark Side, it was showing you can. 

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You just made my point for me.  The OT showed us you can come back from the dark side despite it telling us you can’t, and that’s what made Vader’s redemption so powerful.  If someone as wise as Yoda believed it was impossible, there must have been a good reason for it.  We were made to believe that Anakin coming back from the dark side was something unprecedented.  Now its happening all the time.

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25 minutes ago, Quetzalcoatl said:

You just made my point for me.  The OT showed us you can come back from the dark side despite it telling us you can’t, and that’s what made Vader’s redemption so powerful.  If someone as wise as Yoda believed it was impossible, there must have been a good reason for it.  We were made to believe that Anakin coming back from the dark side was something unprecedented.  Now its happening all the time.

Happening all the time?

In the 9 movies, it happens just with Vader and Kylo.  Both die because they sacrifice themselves.   In Kylo's case, it took the death of Leia and Han AND the efforts of Rey to snap him out of it.  I already described my thoughts on Vader, and if you count the Disney Channel series, one might want to include Reva.  But like I said,  failing to follow through on an evil act doesn't necessarily make you good.  I don't personally count Reva as redeemed, because it wasn't earned and she committed murder or maimed people numerous times, and didn't really do anything good in Obi Wan Kenobi.  She just decided NOT to kill Luke to get to Vader.  That is not the same as being redeemed and coming back to the light side. 

Outside video games (eg Revan, Kyle Katarn) or comics (eg Ulic Kel Droma), I don't recall anyone other than Vader and Kylo being redeemed in Star Wars, once they fell to the dark side. 

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1 hour ago, Darth Krawlie said:

This is a bigger indictment on Kylo than Reva. He absolutely should have stayed evil the whole way through. His redemption arc was dumb as shit anyway.

I agree. He should have been the big bad of TROS.  It's well documented here I'm not exactly a fan of the ST.  But it is what it is.  I was just saying that is how it played out, and my point being that there aren't as many redeemed force users on screen as one might think.  In the movies and series, there are only 2 fallen jedi who were redeemed and it cost them their lives to go back to the light side.    So, I don't think Yoda was not too far off base to say once you start down the dark path, you stay evil.  He was wrong to say it was impossible, but it is extremely rare to come back to the light side.  Actually, unique to the Skywalker line, at least on screen and not counting EU. 

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On 7/24/2022 at 1:11 AM, Quetzalcoatl said:

You just made my point for me.  The OT showed us you can come back from the dark side despite it telling us you can’t, and that’s what made Vader’s redemption so powerful.  If someone as wise as Yoda believed it was impossible, there must have been a good reason for it.  We were made to believe that Anakin coming back from the dark side was something unprecedented.  Now its happening all the time.

As Zathras pointed out it’s not happening all the time (and don’t disagree Kylo’s redemption was lame or unearned) but I don’t agree that the take away was no one can come back from the dark side at all. It was that Luke proved Yoda wrong, that someone that far down the path come back. It isn’t a once and done deal.

The prequels in a way were just reinforcing how Yoda/the Jedi was wrong but it’s also likely Yoda thought it was unprecedented because he never dealt with it. And someone who doesn’t believe in attachments probably isn’t going to even bother try bring someone back. 

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I think you're still missing my point.  I'm not arguing that Yoda wasn't wrong, or that you can't come back from the dark side.  I don't disagree with any of the logic behind what you're saying.  I'm only saying that every time it happens it mitigates Vader's redemption and makes it appear less miracalous.  Vader coming back from the dark side should have remained an anomaly.  

Let me make an analogy.  Remember in Abrams' first Star Trek film when Spock flipped out on Kirk after his planet was destroyed?  What made that scene powerful is that we were seeing behavior that we normally don't see from Spock.  It wasn't typical of that character.  But then he flips out again in the next film, came close to killing Khan, and it took Uhura to pull him back from the edge, and I thought Abrams went too far with Spock losing control of his emotions.  Two movies in a row, Spock flipped out and went psycho on someone, and while I get the story logic behind why he did it, I don't think it was a good place to take that character.  You could argue that Spock now comes across as the most emotionally charged crew member in Abrams' Trek films, something I don't think Abrams intended to convey.  You can only repeat an exception to a rule so many times before it becomes self-defeating and undermines the original intent.

Like I said, I haven't seen the Kenobi show, so maybe this isn't so much of a problem for Reva as it is for Kylo.  But every time we see another dark sider go back to the light, it mitigates the significance of all that Yoda told Luke about the dark side, and makes Anakin's return look like not so hard of a feat.  

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Like I said, I haven't seen the Kenobi show, so maybe this isn't so much of a problem for Reva as it is for Kylo.  But every time we see another dark sider go back to the light, it mitigates the significance of all that Yoda told Luke about the dark side, and makes Anakin's return look like no so hard of a feat.

I see what you are saying and BTW, I agree with you on some level. However, the only other (non-EU) time a fallen jedi came back to the light besides Vader was Kylo.  I agree he shouldn't have either, but that is not what the ST gave us.   Seems to me your problem is with the ST itself, which I am no fan of, either.  But it is what it is.   

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I think we can count Darth Revan as a Sith who became a Jedi, too! The character was supposed to show up in Clone Wars but the scene ended up getting removed.

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  • 1 month later...

Did anyone watch the “making of” that dropped last week? Caught it last night and really enjoyed it! Everyone is clearly having lots of fun and it was great seeing Ewan and Hayden reminiscing.

Some interviews with Alec Guinness I don’t recall seeing before, although I’m sure I must have at some point.

Very nice!

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