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Ewan McGreggor coming back as Obi-Wan


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Another really entertaining episode although I feel like Vader and the troopers gave up pretty easily at the end there.  Thats a minor quibble though. Episode was alot of fun.

As for my Vader prediction I just think the character is more interesting if something like I said does happen. The idea he is tortured and wants to do what is right but just can't is alot better than just he's a completely evil monster who snaps peoples necks with the Force for no reason at all. 

Basically if going into this we all just think Vader is this remoseless evil machine and then they show him as such there isn't a great story reason do bring him back. If there is a slight twist to what we believed going in, thats much better. 

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Here's the thing though. This isn't Vader's story. Vader had six movies to tell the story you're talking about, It's been done. It's established. This story is Obi-Wan's. As much as a big character as

Agree with Tank on the “nope never.” If Vader finds out about Luke in this series, we should all just cancel our Disney+ subscriptions and never watch SW again.  I’ve heard Filoni in past intervi

Darth Vader. I ‘get’ the Inquisitors but hate the concept of it. Darth Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights….by outsourcing the work to these guys. 

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In the course of his character development in story that trait shouldn’t exist though. Maybe it’s better individual storytelling for this particular entry, debatable, but for the ongoing continuing story arc it doesn’t fit here.

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You’re absolutely right, but giiven the history of Disney Star Wars, there’s a 90% chance they do exactly what Choc is saying. 

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5 hours ago, Lucas1138 said:

Hi All! Enjoying this, obviously. Hope you are too.

Tank, [Part 3 spoilers]

 

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I think - more often than I should - about your idea for a Vader slasher movie. Between the Rogue One hallway scene and the village march and subsequent cat and mouse game... I need it now more than ever!

 

Oh it was in full effect here. Popped into my mind instantly in that quarry.

10 hours ago, Dark Wader said:

The third ep was probably the happiest I’ve been as a Star Wars fan. Vader was just savage and unhinged. I don’t think it’s too hard to guess where it’ll go next but still can’t wait for then next confrontation. 

The end with Reva was a little confusing in how they cut it but she might of been one of the Jedi or force sensitive kids they tried to help before? She recognised the symbol and knew where the tunnel ended up. 

The symbol was the PT era Jedi logo, she would know what it is. My money is still on her being one of those younglings.

It was a bit confusing how that tunnel was a straight line for Leia, and Reva and Sexy Imperial mommy seemed to be able to go where they wanted without running into each other.

Which brings me to my one complaint— the action is awful in this. Like I said before they can’t run due to the size of the stage, but the stunt work seems really awkward, and the lightsaber duel was clunkier than ANH. I know it’s been a minute for Obi-Wan, but still.

That said, this felt VERY Star Wars and continues to be what the PT should have been. Once again, Obi-Wan talking about Padme to Leia gets to me.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Tank said:

The symbol was the PT era Jedi logo, she would know what it is. My money is still on her being one of those younglings.

It was a bit confusing how that tunnel was a straight line for Leia, and Reva and Sexy Imperial mommy seemed to be able to go where they wanted without running into each other.

 

Yeah I still think she is one of the younglings but it was how she knew exactly where Leia would end up that makes me think she was a youngling who escaped and ended up here. But the whole bit was hard to follow.

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3 hours ago, The Choc said:

As for my Vader prediction I just think the character is more interesting if something like I said does happen. The idea he is tortured and wants to do what is right but just can't is alot better than just he's a completely evil monster who snaps peoples necks with the Force for no reason at all. 

Basically if going into this we all just think Vader is this remoseless evil machine and then they show him as such there isn't a great story reason do bring him back. If there is a slight twist to what we believed going in, thats much better. 

Here's the thing though. This isn't Vader's story. Vader had six movies to tell the story you're talking about, It's been done. It's established. This story is Obi-Wan's. As much as a big character as he is in the saga, he only has a few big moments as a character. He is meant to be the baseline Jedi so that we can see how Anakin, and then Luke, differ on their own paths to become Jedi. Obi-Wan is a central character to Star Wars, but he has always been a supporting one.

This show is the reverse. We have gotten more out of him, on a human personal level, in these three episodes than we did in all of the PT. This is HIS turn to have the story land on him, and be about HIS journey. We already know Vader's.

So in the way that Obi-Wan was a prop in Vader's story in the PT/OT, we've now flipped that. It's not Vader's job to have an arc in this story because he's just here to support it.

They brought Vader back not to tell more of his story, but to use him as way to motivate Obi-Wan. While he's still in hiding in the OT, Obi-Wan is pretty unflappable-- right up through his death. He's collected and sure all through ANH. The Obi-wan we are seeing now is a long way from that. He was TERRIFIED of Vader. Jedi aren't supposed to give into fear, and Obi-Wan straight up ran from that fight. Vader was kicking his ass, and had he not been having crispy flashbacks because there was a wall of flames, Vader would have killed him.

This is storytelling 101, Obi-Wan has the arc in this story because it's his. Vader does not.

I'd even say they are doubling down on making Vader one-note. He's always been accused of being full of anger-- but this Vader was borderline Anakin level of angry. OT Vader wouldn't kill civilians for effect-- not because he wasn't evil, but because he wouldn't CARE. Vader at this point in time is leaning hard into evil and building his reputation that makes him scary in the OT era. If anything I think we'll be seeing him more cruel than we have before., Not cool, chop up Rebels with modern FX Rogue One cruel, but killing innocent people, no turning back, evil cruel. The point they are writing to is how Obi-Wan describes him in ANH. 

What you're asking for doesn't make sense in the frame of Vader's story having been written and considered sacrosanct. It also doesn't make sense in the frame work of this being Obi-Wan's story.

My guess is Vader will get meaner, Obi-Wan will grow less afraid, then try to appeal to Anakin on last time to try and turn him back. That will fail when Vader just doubles down on being worse. They'll fight, and it will be the reverse of Mustafar when Vader will walk away thinking he has won and Obi-Wan is dead.

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The thing is that Vader isn't a bad ass villain. Hes a pathetic pussy. 

Look at the PT. After he kills the younglins and the seperatists he is crying on Mustafar. Hes not like revelling in his evil. He knows what hes done is wrong. When he wakes up in the Vader suit and finds out he killed Padme he is heart broken by it.

Go to ROTJ when Luke challenges him he says "its too late for me" and "I must obey my master". This is someone who knows what hes done is wrong but thinks its too late and is too much of a coward to fix. Hes too scared of the Emperor to fix it.
 

Go this this show, hes breaking the necks of completely defenseless peasants. Thats not bad ass. Its sad, its pathetic.

This is a man who when he finds out about his son might do a little bit of what is right, killing Reva to keep the secret, but certainly don't have the balls to leave the Emperor. Cause he is too scared.

Thats the whole thing about Vader. The whole PT is meant to show us that hes not the greatest villain ever (which in a way he still is) but that his existance is sad. 

Vader is yes meant to feared but also meant to be pitied. He is sad. He is a coward. He is pathetic. 

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His patheticness is the grand reveal. My whole point is Vader at this time frame is doing his best to hide that behind being perceived as big and evil. You’re just bolstering my point that his arc is already in place and they aren’t going to change that here.

And I don’t know how any of that is related to your point that they need to do something different with him here.

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I think my only complaint about this show is it’s weird seeing these characters, especially dueling with lightsabers, and not have the John Williams music we are so familiar with. 
 

I’m loving how Obi Wan continues to see Padme in Leia. And Leia caught on and figured out that he knew her real mother. That really tugged at the heart strings. And then she’s seeing what these people are doing to make a difference in the galaxy, and you see the beginning stages of her eventual leadership of the Rebellion. 

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Loved the scenes with Kenobi & Leia - the discussions on her Mum and his own family; the brother reference was a lovely touch. 

This is a broken Kenobi that will get himself together over the remaining 10 years to ANH to be an inspiration to Luke. Will Qui-Gon make contact finally? Maybe in the final scenes on Tatooine… non-interference at this stage while Ben goes through his trials.

He has only just found out Anakin survived and is already being confronted by him. Vader wants to taunt him, play with him, enjoy the hunt. 

Reva definitely recognised the secret room as being a youngling going through there, so knew where the exit was presumably. Lots more to come from her and am enjoying the storyline there and the potential for the final 3 episodes.

And she has Leia now - a meeting with Vader maybe? Kind of explains the cool, familiar encounter they have at the start of ANH, so I have no issues with that.  She would be kind of untouchable as the daughter of Bail - this is an empire with the Senate still in place as they gradually wipe that away by the time we get to ANH and that comment by Tarkin, and you got a hint of that from the GI in part 2 where he told off Reva for kidnapping the daughter of a senator.

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47 minutes ago, Rogue 3 said:

Loved the scenes with Kenobi & Leia - the discussions on her Mum and his own family; the brother reference was a lovely touch. 

This is a broken Kenobi that will get himself together over the remaining 10 years to ANH to be an inspiration to Luke. Will Qui-Gon make contact finally? Maybe in the final scenes on Tatooine… non-interference at this stage while Ben goes through his trials.

He has only just found out Anakin survived and is already being confronted by him. He wants to taunt him, play with him, enjoy the hunt. 

Reva definitely recognised the secret room as being a youngling going through there, so knew where the exit was presumably. Lots more to come from her and am enjoying the storyline there and the potential for the final 3 episodes.

And she has Leia now - a meeting with Vader maybe? Kind of explains the cool, familiar encounter they have at the start of ANH, so I have no issues with that.  She would would be kind of untouchable as the daughter of Bail - this is an empire with the Senate still in place as they gradually wipe that away by the time we get to ANH and that comment by Tarkin, and you got a hint of that from the GI in part 2 where he told off Reva for kidnapping the daughter of a senator.

Wouldn’t it be interesting if Vader returned Leia to Bail. For all intents a purposes they are on the same side.

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7 hours ago, Tank said:

Wouldn’t it be interesting if Vader returned Leia to Bail. For all intents a purposes they are on the same side.

Definitely! Agree that could be the case. No concept of a proper rebellion at this point in time - that looks to be established later during Andor based on the trailer? More of a situation of unhappy people working “quietly” against the Empire in the background with no proper leadership…

So yes, could see that happening. Really excited to see where they go with these last 3 episodes! 

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11 hours ago, Tank said:

His patheticness is the grand reveal. My whole point is Vader at this time frame is doing his best to hide that behind being perceived as big and evil. You’re just bolstering my point that his arc is already in place and they aren’t going to change that here.

And I don’t know how any of that is related to your point that they need to do something different with him here.

Yes, exactly. This is a facade of being so bad ass and evil. The good is still in there. And yes that patheticness is a reveal at the end of ROTJ. However everyone has seen ROTJ. This story doesn't need to preserve that reveal any more than the PT had to preserve the surprise of Vaders true identity. The story doesn't need to fit chronologically to save the end of ROTJ. You can show that Vader is pathetic and too afraid of the Emperor to do what's really right without ruining ROTJ because I mean how many people are ever, at any point, going to watch all of Star Wars chronologically? Like almost no one, so it doesn't matter. 

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Its one of the best I've ever had really. And its not really a true prediction. I wouldn't put money on it happening and I won't be mad or anything if it doesn't. 

I just see so many people, not exactly here but elsewhere, going nuts over Vader in this episode. It reminds of the reaction to Luke in Mando. Both very fun, very cool but not interesting. Not something great. I mean I knew Luke would probably at some point be good enough to slice through robots. I've seen Vader choke people to death, so breaking someones neck isn't that much of a departure. 

Im fine if the shows are just entertaining, and this show has been extremely entertainng and even above that. It's been great. I just feel another little twist that people don't see coming would make it great. I want to watch this stuff and think "wow, I wouldnt have expected that."

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Random thought - in my head from stories or comics I read in the ‘80’s / ‘90’s, Luke went back to Kenobi’s home on Tatooine to find the parts to construct his green saber.
When TPM came out, there was speculation the crystal was from Qui-Gon’s, but presume this not to be the case now with Kenobi shown to only have buried his own and Anakin’s.

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1 hour ago, Fozzie said:

Plot twists for the sake of plot twists are always bad. See: M. Night Shyamalan.

Well what Im saying isn't really a plot twist. Its the difference between this:

What we thought: Vader is this completely evil monster whose son eventually makes him see the good in himself

What Im saying: Hes always been a coward kept in line by fear of the Emperor. His love for his son eventually will lead to him conquering this fear. If he finds out about his son now though that love is still there and it could lead to him doing some good but not really turning good due to his fear. Basically he is now tortured and trapped by his past actions and decisions but isn;t strong enough to overcome them, until inspired by his son.

I actually think that is a much better story. And to the point that Tank said about hiding behind this evil baddassery thats exactly what Im saying. No one in universe will know what hes done. Obi Wan won't realize he found out about Luke, he will think the secret was preserved. The only one who will know is Reva, who Vader kills. 

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Again though— this entry is not Vader’s story.  It’s Obi-WAN’s. The POV makes it so all things work off Ben’s arc, NOT Vader’s. This isn’t the place to do character work for him when it’s a story that’s already told.

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8 minutes ago, The Choc said:

Well what Im saying isn't really a plot twist. Its the difference between this:

What we thought: Vader is this completely evil monster whose son eventually makes him see the good in himself

What Im saying: Hes always been a coward kept in line by fear of the Emperor. His love for his son eventually will lead to him conquering this fear. If he finds out about his son now though that love is still there and it could lead to him doing some good but not really turning good due to his fear. Basically he is now tortured and trapped by his past actions and decisions but isn;t strong enough to overcome them, until inspired by his son.

I actually think that is a much better story. And to the point that Tank said about hiding behind this evil baddassery thats exactly what Im saying. No one in universe will know what hes done. Obi Wan won't realize he found out about Luke, he will think the secret was preserved. The only one who will know is Reva, who Vader kills. 

"It's not a plot twist."

 

*goes on to explain fantasy plot twist in more detail*

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5 minutes ago, Tank said:

Again though— this entry is not Vader’s story.  It’s Obi-WAN’s. The POV makes it so all things work off Ben’s arc, NOT Vader’s. This isn’t the place to do character work for him when it’s a story that’s already told.

So we can only have one character do interesting things per show?

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4 minutes ago, Fozzie said:

"It's not a plot twist."

 

*goes on to explain fantasy plot twist in more detail*

I guess I don't see it as a twist because it's just how I see Vader to begin with. 

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6 minutes ago, The Choc said:

So we can only have one character do interesting things per show?

Of course not. Don’t be intentionally obtuse. But for all the reason I have repeatedly stated, it’s not going to be what you want. They could still do all sorts of stuff, showing a good side to Vader won’t be one of them.

 

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