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Ewan McGreggor coming back as Obi-Wan


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2 hours ago, The Choc said:

Obi Wan doesnt have to know that Vader did this, he could think he somehow got away with it and Vader just didn't know what was going on. 

It’s not a narrative problem for Obi-Wan to know or not know, it would be a significant change to a well established part of the overall mythos. Vader’s redemption comes when he saves Luke in ROTJ. Finding out he did the same thing in a lesser form 10 years previous is a hat on a hat and does nothing to add to the story, and if anything, weakens the significance of Luke’s role later.

It’s a terrible idea that undercuts the overall saga for the sake of forcing a moment in a new story inserted into the timeline… to which I’d give 50/50 odds of it happening.

 

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Yeah, the Inquisitors are not technically Sith, so it's the way they've been able to cheat things. At the end of the day, Star Wars without lightsabers, Jedi, and the Force feels lacking, so it's been

As much as I love cartoons for superheroes, I’ve never liked it with Star Wars. Oh I understand the Clone Wars is just the bees’ knees and all that jazz, I just don’t care. I don’t care about the book

Darth Vader. I ‘get’ the Inquisitors but hate the concept of it. Darth Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights….by outsourcing the work to these guys. 

If Vader is just going to be evil and its going to be another Rogue One ending situation of just "look how evil and badass Vader is" then there is really no reason for him to be on the show. 

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I think Vader will have his own arc of sorts in this where he’ll be a less confident version than we’ve seen - there might be some shred of humanity left in him, and we might see a brief flash of good but whatever that is will be killed off with his fight with Obi Wan. 

But I don’t think it would make any sense for him to know about Luke in any capacity. It seems unlikely he’d know about Luke and never grab him to train as an apprentice. 
 

 

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Im certainly not saying this has to happen but I don't think it would in any way, shape or form harm the existing story. When you think about Vader in the suit he is tortured and not just physically by his burns and injuries but emotionally. He should be constantly regretting what he's done and wanting to do the right thing but he just can;'t do it. If he's just in the suit twirling his mustache and revelling in his being evil I think it takes away from the character. 

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This is what happens when you take a Very compacted, broad strokes mythic tale and make into a serialized never-ending story.

This is why I never felt like the EU worked. Star Wars was never meant for nuanced, slow paced stories.

I disagree with you that it’s the only thing to mine with Vader, but you’re not wrong in that he’ll feel one note if they don’t explore something.

They should give him something new.

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2 hours ago, The Choc said:

When you think about Vader in the suit he is tortured and not just physically by his burns and injuries but emotionally. He should be constantly regretting what he's done and wanting to do the right thing but he just can;'t do it. 

This is exactly what I don't want to see with Vader.  The payoff in ROTJ is based on the whole idea that there is nothing remotely human left in him.  It's not enough that the characters believed Anakin to be completely gone, but the audience isn't shown any reason to think otherwise either, and that's what made his redemption so powerful.  We were never shown anything to suggest it.  It was like a miracle.   Having him conflicted in this new series will mitigate what ROTJ did.  Vader should be a one-dimensional evil character who is only driven by power.  There's not supposed to be anything else left.  

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I think you are totally wrong. The whole point is that there IS good in him. As Luke says "The Emperor has not driven it from you fully". Even earlier in the movie the Emperor questions Vader asking him if his feelings on this are clear. The light has never fully gone out of him. 

Now if you say you don't want that light to ever shine through in any kind of small way thats fine. But to say its gone is wrong. But I'd say there are a few instances of him showing that flicker of light prior to the end ROTJ. When he first awakens in the Vader suit the first thing he asks about is Padme. At the end of ESB after coming face to face with Luke when the Falcon gets away he doesn;t choke anyway, seeing Luke has already had a profound effect on him. Earlier in ROTJ when talking to Luke he says "it is too late for me son." Showing that he knows what he is doing is wrong but that he just can't fix it. 

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I understand the idea that there is some good left in Vader,  and I agree there is, but at the point this series is taking place, the good should be completely submerged.  This is supposed to be around 10 years before ANH.  Vader should be on his way to becoming the ultimate badass, second only to the emperor and he should only be driven by hate for and revenge against the jedi, and Obi Wan in particular.   Now, HOW Vader is written has a lot of room to make him interesting.  His point of view should be (as said in ROTS) that  HE isn't evil, but it's the Jedi who are evil.  The best villains are the ones who are so twisted that they don't think they are evil, and if they do commit a bad act, they rationalize it like they were forced to, or it was necessary, or this is the fault of the hero, etc.

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In a way Vader does that but hes lying to himself and justifying his actions to himself. In ROTS after he kills the Seperatists he is standing on that balcony crying. Even when he first turns and bows before the Emperor after the Emperor killed Mace the whole thing reeks of them just kinda saying things they both know are not true to justify this all. I mean Anakin hears the Emperor gleefully say "unlimited power!!!" while killing Mace. He can't possibly believe it when 2 minutes later the Emperor is talking about how the Jedi are bad and all that. He knows what the Emperor wants.

Thats how I always took Anakin, he does all of it to save Padme, but for selfish reasons. All the other stuff is just a thin justification for himself to do these acts of evil. He knows its BS. 

But just for this story in how it relates to the OT, the thing that brings Anakin back is Luke. His love for his son and his son's love for him. So I don't think its any sort of betrayal of that story for that flicker to show when he first learns his son exists. It would be the first ember of a fire that would take a decade to fully light.

And Im not pimping for this story. Im fine if there is nothing like this. I just don't think that it wouldn't fit and work with what we've already seen. 

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1 hour ago, The Choc said:

But I'd say there are a few instances of him showing that flicker of light prior to the end ROTJ. When he first awakens in the Vader suit the first thing he asks about is Padme. 

My take on that scene has always been that this was the last we saw of Anakin, until ROTJ.  When he learned that Padme was dead, he didn't have anything else to live for, and this was the moment when he fully embraced the dark side and Anakin "died."  Again, just my personal take, but I never saw this scene as Vader displaying humanity, but rather, this scene marked the true birth of Vader and the final suppression of the Anakin persona.  That's how I've always seen it.

Quote

At the end of ESB after coming face to face with Luke when the Falcon gets away he doesn;t choke anyway, seeing Luke has already had a profound effect on him.

This is a subtle one, and debatable whether this reflects any act of conscience in Vader.  It was also Vader's idea that Luke NOT be killed, but captured and turned instead.  Was it really just a strategic decision?  Or did he deep down just not want to kill his son?  These are instances where it could be argued that Vader might be showing mercy or a moral compas, but its debatable.  On the surface, he just looks like a one-dimensional villain, as he should.  

Maybe the show could do something similar?  For example, maybe Vader does something that actually works to Obi-Wan's advantage, and while Vader has a completely justifiable villain reason for doing what he did, the audience is left wondering if that's really why he did it.  I suppose that could work.  It would be kind of a subtle version of what you're describing, but it doesn't explicitly establish some kind of conflict or humanity inside Vader.  Something subtle like that could work.  The OT did similar things, but I think anything else would be pushing it.  

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So I've been wracking my brain on what I would pitch if I was in the Obi-Wan writer's room to make the Vader interactions unique, while keeping Vader the cold machine he is supposed to be. Again, showing anything less than that from him is a misstep.

That means, there has to be something unique about the point of view of Vader being this way.

And I think I have it.

So in ROTS, Palpatine refers to Anakin as Vader before he's in the suit once, when sending him to Mustafar to kill of the Seperatist leadership. We know how that ends.

But... follow me here... we don't know if Obi-Wan heard that. We don't know if at that point Obi-Wan heard the name Vader and connected it to Anakin. i'd have to watch ROTS to be sure (and who wants to do that), but to the best of my knowledge, chronologically the next time we see Obi-Wan is on Rebels, and it doesn't come up.

So here's my pitch.

What if their meeting in this show is the first time Obi-Wan finds out Vader is Anakin. We know he's got a hotline to Bail, we can see he gets off Tattooine on occasion. He could be all up on hearing how Palpatine has a new Sith Lord apprentice. But if Anakin being Vader isn't common knowledge, it's entirely possible he thinks he left ASnakin to die on Mustafar and Vader is just next in line.

It's not until they come face to face and obi-Wan senses him does he realize. This is kinda what happen with Ahsoka when she crossed Vader on Rebels, and it was effective. 

Also, another way to actually make use of them meeting again-- it always bugged me that obi-Wan just walked off. Vader would know he was alive. If their encounter this time ends with Vader thinking Obi-Wan is dead, then things actually jive a little better for ANH (save for the "but the learner" line.

 

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17 minutes ago, Tank said:

But... follow me here... we don't know if Obi-Wan heard that. We don't know if at that point Obi-Wan heard the name Vader and connected it to Anakin. i'd have to watch ROTS to be sure (and who wants to do that), but to the best of my knowledge, chronologically the next time we see Obi-Wan is on Rebels, and it doesn't come up.

I might not be remembering it correctly but don’t Yoda and Obi Wan watch the holo footage of Palpatine anointing him as Vader?

Edit - though that would still work possibly if Obi Wan doesn’t know Vader survived and thinks he is dead. Vader probably isn’t known around the galaxy and Empire at this point either. 

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That footage watching scene is the one I am thinking of that I can’t remember clearly— especially because there was an alt version of it.

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Yeah I couldn’t remember if it was in the deleted/alt version but I was bored enough to check and it’s in the movie he calls him ‘Lord Vader’ on the holo footage. But I still think your version would work

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On 5/14/2022 at 6:12 PM, Dark Wader said:

Yeah I couldn’t remember if it was in the deleted/alt version but I was bored enough to check and it’s in the movie he calls him ‘Lord Vader’ on the holo footage. But I still think your version would work

You’re correct. Obi Wan and Yoda clearly hear Palpatine call him Lord Vader. Go to 3:25:

 

 

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I am struggling with this series.  Knowing that Obi-Wan and Vader had some interaction between ROTS and ANH makes Vader's line "a feeling I have not felt since..." lose SOOO much weight.

The other thing is there is something cool about shutting it all down and going into hiding.  Yes, I am sure there are cool things he did (I haven't seen any of the cartoons) but it is kind of like the Kessel Run.  It is best left to the imagination--I don't need to see it.  It is so much cooler that way. 

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"A feeling I have not felt since..." 

Disney is lucky that in ANH, Vader never finished his thought, leaving it open to whatever place and time they deem fit for Kenobi and Vader's last meeting. 

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Darth Hunter said:

"A feeling I have not felt since..." 

Disney is lucky that in ANH, Vader never finished his thought, leaving it open to whatever place and time they deem fit for Kenobi and Vader's last meeting. 

 

I can just see it now..."A feeling I have not felt since last week's awkward run-in at the grocery store..."

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That’s basically the gist of the EU and the cartoons where in a galaxy full of people, the same dozen characters continue to meet by chance… usually on Tattooine.

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So I saw this article talking about what we have been discussing:

https://gizmodo.com/obi-wan-kenobi-interview-star-wars-darth-vader-anakin-s-1848951914

No offense to Seth, because I know he was struggling to come up with ANYTHING  that would be interesting about Obi-Wan/Vader and if you are grasping for straws and have to come up with something it IS a good idea..but do people think Obi-Wan is dumb?

Even if they take out Obi Wan viewing the security footage of Palpatine calling Anakin Vader, you still have a Palpatine with a cyborg sith master. 

The other thing from the article is that the writer says "there are gaps to fill".  Again, even if Obi Wan didn't know--we don't have to know/ see/ understand.  I don't need to see the Kessell Run or Han meeting Chewie or Qui Gon teaching everyone how to come back from the dead. 

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