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The Rise of Skywalker and time travel


29 replies to this topic

#1
Darth Ender

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I just watched the Red Letter Media's video on The Rise of Skywalker predictions.  In the video they predict that E9 will go End Game and use time travel to tie the previous movies together.   They point to a few hints.  Some of these are confirmed such as the MF having the circular disc back and some not confirmed such as Matt Smith playing a young Palpatine.  

 

Some repond that time travel is not only too late, but also does not fit in the SW universe.  Others believe that this is a way to make everything fit together and possibly serve as a bridge to future trilogies.  

 

For me, as much as I agree with the sentiment that time travel in SW doesn't make sense, TLJ was so bad that of all unlikely and bad scenarios, this is the best and can actually be great if well done.  

 

A bit of context, I love LotR.  I hated the army of the dead ending.  I hate the trope of a secret ace up the sleeve of the protagonists.  Of all of the things I hated about TLJ, the thing I hated most is that it set up the rebels to have a miracle ace up their sleeve...a miracle army of the dead.  The idea that there is a secret stash of allies or warships is so awful like Daenarys getting a brand new army to sack King's Landing.  I can buy time travel.  I can buy that the rebels are saved through time travel/ a battle for Rey and Kylo's soul.

 

I want to be clear, I don't think time travel will happen.  I am just saying that it is preferable to the other terrible options TLJ left us with.



#2
Tank

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I can't even...

With the PT, it was one terrible idea after another on top of being poorly made.

The ST tricks me by being well made, and half good ideas and half incredibly bad ideas.

TFA and TLJ both have great bits, and both made major mistakes. My number one fear is that JJ is butthurt enough that Johnson didn't follow the story het set up, and actively broke it, that TRS is basically going to spend most of is runtime being a course correction.

JJ is GREAT at tone, but he is terrible at keeping the mythology/rules in check. So to that, I can see him doing this.

Rebels did it, and honestly, I about quit the show when they did.
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#3
Dark Wader

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Yeah, I really wasn't a fan of it when they did it in Rebels. 

 

Also, while there are a lot of fans who hate TLJ there are just as many who love it. So if they do something to try and invalidate what happens, you end up slapping one half of the fanbase in the face while you try to satisfy the other half. If that's their reasoning then at the end of the day you're just back at square one. 


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#4
El Chalupacabra

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.


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#5
Tank

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Aside from fixing hyperdrives, tech and magic just WORKED in the OT without ever needing to be explained. That was for Star Trek to do.

 

The PT added midichlorians because Lucas wasn't a good enough writer to somehow inform the audience that Anakin WAS SUPER SPECIAL. He needed a datapoint. No one likes the idea of midichlorians. 

 

Time travel would be midichlorians times 100.


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#6
Darth Krawlie

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No. Just no.
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#7
Darth Ender

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I can't even...

With the PT, it was one terrible idea after another on top of being poorly made.

The ST tricks me by being well made, and half good ideas and half incredibly bad ideas.

TFA and TLJ both have great bits, and both made major mistakes. My number one fear is that JJ is butthurt enough that Johnson didn't follow the story het set up, and actively broke it, that TRS is basically going to spend most of is runtime being a course correction.

JJ is GREAT at tone, but he is terrible at keeping the mythology/rules in check. So to that, I can see him doing this.

Rebels did it, and honestly, I about quit the show when they did.

Not to turn this into "why the PT sucks" but I thought they had decent ideas that were poorly executed.  It just feels like a first draft of a pretty good script.    

 

I think you are kind of hitting on my point.  It is way preferable for JJ to take a risk and do an entertaining time travel movie that is essentially a greatest hits of SW.  That is WAY preferable to finding a secret stash of ships/ allies and undoing TLJ and Naboo not really being Dagobah.

Yeah, I really wasn't a fan of it when they did it in Rebels. 

 

Also, while there are a lot of fans who hate TLJ there are just as many who love it. So if they do something to try and invalidate what happens, you end up slapping one half of the fanbase in the face while you try to satisfy the other half. If that's their reasoning then at the end of the day you're just back at square one. 

Wait...so this already exists in the SW universe?  **** it.  I am in on this 100%. 

 

It isn't that hard to push after Rey and Kylo's interactions.  Just say reach out through time and wave your hand around or something.  



#8
Filthy Jawa

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But isn't this essentially what JJ did with the Star Trek movies? I kind of don't even remember. It was an alternate reality or something? And somehow old Spock crossed from one reality to the one we were watching? If they bring time-travel into Star Wars, I'm calling that pretty much the same thing.

#9
Tank

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But isn't this essentially what JJ did with the Star Trek movies? I kind of don't even remember. It was an alternate reality or something? And somehow old Spock crossed from one reality to the one we were watching? If they bring time-travel into Star Wars, I'm calling that pretty much the same thing.


Yes... but if you look back over his ouvre, he repeats himself a LOT

#10
zambingo

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Maybe this is why Matt Smith is in episode nine.
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#11
Odine

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Time travel has no business in a Star Wars anything. The closest acceptable thing is force premonitions and the like. If Rey or Kylo hop into the metaphorical DeLorean to visit Palpy I'm literally going to throw a man child hissy fit and walk out of the cinema.

Edited by Odine, 23 July 2019 - 05:36 AM.

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#12
Brando

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What if they jump into the literal Delorean and fly off with Marty and Doc?

#13
zambingo

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If Doctor Who and Marty and Doc help to save the Resistance from a Clone of Palpatine... Im sorry but that may have gone from WTF Worst Idea Ever to The Greatest Film of All-Time.

Rey: Eww. Eww. Hes kissing his sister.
Marty: It could be worse.
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#14
Brando

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The whole movie is about them traveling through time to try to stop Luke from getting an erection while kissing Leia. The Rise of Skywalker.

Duriya pivotal moment, Doc shares that he is his own father, which cracked time going back to the beginning and creating the Force.
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#15
Tank

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OMG

#16
zambingo

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LOL I love it.

#17
Darth Ender

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Time travel has no business in a Star Wars anything. The closest acceptable thing is force premonitions and the like. If Rey or Kylo hop into the metaphorical DeLorean to visit Palpy I'm literally going to throw a man child hissy fit and walk out of the cinema.

I have heard time travel already exists in Rebels.  

 

Aren't premonitions just a gateway to time travel.  If you can see something the future yet, why can't you interact with it?  We know distance isn't a thing.  Why can't KyloRey go Bran?  



#18
Tank

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Yoda said always in motion is the future. And it was pointed out that even he could not for sure say Han and Leia would die. Clearly the Jedi have the gift of precognition, but the further ahead they look, the cloudier and less sure it is. Predict where a blaster bolt is going to be in a microsecond from now? Easy. Seeing if the Cubs beat Miami in 2015... you need a time machine.

But in that convo, Yoda also implies Luke might see into the past. We didnt see that in action until Rey had her vision in TFA.

I wouldnt mind them LOOKING into the past, and in such we the audience might see OT era moments vis a vis Rey or Kylo. That would hold with established mythology I think.

What I dont want is a literal time machine that they climb into that zaps them into the past physically.
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#19
Darth Ender

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Yoda said always in motion is the future. And it was pointed out that even he could not for sure say Han and Leia would die. Clearly the Jedi have the gift of precognition, but the further ahead they look, the cloudier and less sure it is. Predict where a blaster bolt is going to be in a microsecond from now? Easy. Seeing if the Cubs beat Miami in 2015... you need a time machine.

But in that convo, Yoda also implies Luke might see into the past. We didnt see that in action until Rey had her vision in TFA.

I wouldnt mind them LOOKING into the past, and in such we the audience might see OT era moments vis a vis Rey or Kylo. That would hold with established mythology I think.

What I dont want is a literal time machine that they climb into that zaps them into the past physically.

I want The Rise of Skywalker is a prequel to Bill and Ted.  I want Bill and Ted to pull Palpatine into the phone booth as he is falling and the reaction we see when he hist the core is actually that phone time traveling.  ET, Terminator, and the Enterprise are all in the movies.  

 

After TLJ throwing off continuity by ships lightspeeding through destroyers...I really don't care.  



#20
DANA-kin Skywalker

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RLM has contended that Star Warss dirty little secret is that nothing will ever work outside the original trilogy because that was the fairytale and its been completed..something along those lines.

Im believing that may be right more and more.

#21
DANA-kin Skywalker

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In my opinion however, I believe the force is only ever interesting when the villains use it, or when secondary characters use it as a teaching moment for the protagonists. Its got to be about growth. This describes the success the OT had with it pretty well, and the failure the PT had with it. It was fun watching Luke fail and grow, it was not fun watching Jedi act as Deus ex Machinas moving the story forward.

Rey is having a similar problem; she was the perfect Jedi from day one, so theres not a lot of personal growth. Finns character completes the same arc in two straight movies, so his character has a growth problem. Poe only had character growth in the second movie. These characters had potential but just arent all that interesting.
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#22
Filthy Jawa

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I think you're right about The Force. Good point.

Here's how you complete Poe's arc: he's continuing to be all leader-ish and trying to fill Leia's shoes and it's not going great. Building to the climax there's some daring suicide mission and Poe realizes he's the only one who can pull it off. That's what he's good at. Leave the strategy and leadership to someone else - he realizes who he is - he's a hotshot pilot who can pull off impossible missions and there's nothing wrong with that. Done.

Finn wants to run away but his loyalty to Rey keeps him around. Once he realizes that his loyalty is just a relic of his old Stormtrooper brainwashing, he finally gets away and lives happily in a rocking chair on a porch in the outer rim.
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#23
DANA-kin Skywalker

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I like it.

#24
The Choc

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Yoda said always in motion is the future. And it was pointed out that even he could not for sure say Han and Leia would die. Clearly the Jedi have the gift of precognition, but the further ahead they look, the cloudier and less sure it is. Predict where a blaster bolt is going to be in a microsecond from now? Easy. Seeing if the Cubs beat Miami in 2015... you need a time machine.

But in that convo, Yoda also implies Luke might see into the past. We didnt see that in action until Rey had her vision in TFA.

I wouldnt mind them LOOKING into the past, and in such we the audience might see OT era moments vis a vis Rey or Kylo. That would hold with established mythology I think.

What I dont want is a literal time machine that they climb into that zaps them into the past physically.

I really don't think that will happen. We could spend alot of time in the past via visions that gives Rey or whoever info they need but I can't see a physical time machine. Who would build it? Are we gonna have some "Q" character who gives the heroes new equipment?

 

I certainly would be against physical time travel, as the same time though I'm not close minded enough to not give it a chance if somehow they do go that way. 

 

Also, and I suppose this isn't 100% fact but I've believed it to be the case, but I think Leia talking about her mother was her unknowingly looking into the past. Obviously at the time of the OT it was meant that her mother lived long enough for Leia to remember. However once the PT has Padme die with Leia a newborn that can't be the case. The line about seeing the past covers for it though, even if that wasn't the original intent at the time of ROTJ. 

 

Personally I think the main good guys will go on an adventure, that is kind of a scavenger hunt, through the history of the Star Wars. Seeking out places from throughout all 8 movies where important events happened. Rey will intermittently have visions related to the places they are that give her info. Some of them flashbacks to events we've seen and some of them to events we didn't see. During this "scavenger hunt" Kylo will either 1-be trying to defeat the Resistance or 2-dealing with some new outside threat to his rule. Once Rey and gang get the info they need (which will somehow relate to really ending this conflict between light and dark, rather than just blowing up the bad guys base and having them come back in 20 years anyway) they will re-enter the main fray and either join with Kylo to defeat the new threat or just try to defeat Kylo. However even if its that first thing Kylo will eventually have to be defeated. Perhaps Rey shares her info or new knowledge with Kylo because only together with both as strong as possible can they defeat this new enemy but once that enemy is defeated Kylo now has all this new power and is more dangerous than ever and Rey has to finally defeat him. 



#25
The Choc

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Also as we all know take spoilers with a grain of salt. In TLJ every single spoiler site agreed Kylo was going to attack Luke and Rey on the island. You can see why too. Adam Driver was there, Luke did blow up a hut with the Force, Rey did use her saber in a fight. If you are some crew member only seeing some of what is shot and see it shot out of order very easy to put the pieces together wrong. Wasn't a lie or a false report, just some wrong assumptions.

 

I bet the same applies here with some of the things that don't feel right like time travel or possession. People are seeing certain things and taking them out of context. 





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