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Tank
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12 hours ago, Tank said:

Rando thoughts—

 They called the Titan a refit, but it’s an entirely different class and as an -A reg. The line about Riker’s jazz made it more confusing.

 

Yeah,  this was rather confusing.  I think the writers might not understand when a ship becomes an "-A."  In Disco, they gave the Discovery a refit then called it DIscovery-A.  Looks like they did the same thing with the Titan.  That's not how it's supposed to be.  When a ship gets an "-A" designation, it is because the previous ship carrying the name served with distinction, so the next ship gets the same registry, plus "-A" or whatever letter that follows, if like the Enterprise. 

But here, they are saying the ship got a refit.   WTF?   They called TItan-A a Neo-Constitution, but Riker's Titan was a Luna Class.  Just because a ship is refit doesn't mean it becomes a new class of ship. 

In my head canon, I am thinking Riker's Titan was either retired, or destroyed like in the books, and Shaw's Titan-A is a new ship altogether that went through a shakedown cruise or even a 5 year mission, and then got a refit.   That may or may not be canon, but to me, it makes the most sense. 

Also, take it for what it's worth, but memory alpha says that the Riker's and Shaw's Titans are 2 different ships.   https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Titan_(NCC-80102-A)  

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5 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

Pretty sure he’s gonna be Lore this time 

Yeah Spiner is playing Lore...although I would not be surprised if they give him Data's memories, and/or they cannibalized B4's body for parts.   Question is will he be a villain again, or will he be reprogrammed to be a good guy.

3 hours ago, Tank said:

Lore installed a "get old and pudgy" program.

 

2 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

hey so did I, am I an android too

LOL!  What's funny is that Spiner used that same argument (his age and weight) as to why Data needed to be killed off, yet they somehow found a workaround and let him have realistic skin and aged him up, for him to play Lore.  

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I’m pretty sure they give the Discovery an A because they have to pretend it’s a new ship and not the old one in order to avoid public involvement in the Temporal Cold War from ENT. They don’t want to admit these guys came from the past. Time travel is illegal.

 

re: the aging thing; it’s been inconsistent through the years (we see that Data in ‘All Good Things’ is basically the same but has chosen to put the skunk stripe in his hair) but I think it was established maybe in the episode where we meet Data’s mom and she turns out to be a robot that Soong-type androids age naturally. It’s like the contractions thing with him. It changes depending on the needs of the episode.

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15 minutes ago, Darth Krawlie said:

I mean yeah TWOK is the best trek has to offer but come on. Not everything he to he exactly like it. I really want to like this.

I think Shaw, at least, is a good foil for Picard.

Agreed 100%.  I love TWOK, but ever since then, Paramount has TWOK-itis where every incarnation has to have its version of TWOK.  Hell, Nemesis was almost beat-for-beat like TWOK.  And Into Darkness just straight up ripped TWOK off. 

Still doesn't mean I'm not loving this!  Frakes is awesome in this. I really like Shaw, too.  I thought he was going to be just another Captain Space dock from Star Trek III, but he is more like Captain Jellico (a good captain that has a beef with the TNG cast, that might be legit). 

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As much as this is looking to TWOK for inspiration, it’s doing it in a much smarter way. They KNEW we’d all call Jack being Picard’s kid from the start, any of the other newer Trek’s would just double down on trying to oversell he wasn’t (see Cumberbatch as Khan in ITD).

Instead, they let Riker be the fan voice early in the episode and be coy about it. It’s not about a big twist or reveal that Jack is Picard’s son, it’s about us watching Picard come to accept this and catch up with us.

This season has just as much fan service as any other new Trek, but it doesn’t act like it is smarter than the fans. That gains you so much more acceptance and goodwill.

It’s like Rogue One and Andor compared to Book of Boba Fett. The former were so outed by the same things that inspired Star Wars, while the latter was Star Wars inspired by Star Wars.

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short version: I’m not made of stone!!!!1!

 

* The opening flashback is timed to two weeks ago and we see that as the beginning of their problems — Jack is casual, rakish, listening to music — with Jack even listing the aforementioned (aforeseen?) Fenris Rangers as the first in a sequence including Klingons and Starfleet. But then he says “We’ve been running for months.” So which is it? Weeks or months? Sloppy!

 

* They emphasize again and again that Beverly said to trust no one, we hear Jack tell Picard & Riker that they were nearly killed by men in Starfleet uniforms, and Our Heroes’ big plan is to rope in a nearby Starfleet ship for help!? What!?

 

* Adding in the “We’re trapped here.” to emphasize the situation as we smash to credits. Oh well!

 

* Are they ... are they referencing The Simpsons joke!? Got to give them credit if they are!

 

* “Lt. Moreau detected weapons system activity presumably targeting Picard’s unarmed shuttle.”

“And so it will be noted in my report.”

Damn, love it when the captain notes thing in his reports! Think of all the times the captain on a Star Trek show makes his or her little captain’s reports, says the stardate for their captain’s report, makes sure to say aloud things like “Captain’s report, supplemental” when they’ve got to update the audience on the situation, so fun. I don’t know. Is this a deliberate misprision to signal once again to the audience Captain Shaw being different than Our Heroes? Or is this just them being stone stupid — I can recall to mind a recent issue of IDW’s new Star Trek comic where Doctor Crusher says the ship has a “medbay”, what am I saying, I’m saying this sort of thing is now par for the course with this franchise — and no one managing to fix it after the fact? U-decide!

 

* the thing where Raffi’s ex does the thing about her making a choice is dumb dumb boil-in-the-bag screenwriting and has the feel of being scripted by a ChatGPT module rather than an actual human being

 

* Oh no they have photon torpedoes!? The bad guy ship has photon torpedoes!? In a litany of its weapons meant to convey how outgunned Our Heroes are? Oh no! I have now mentally revised the odds of that “reports” thing from being deliberate use of language to a genuine mistake. These guys didn’t watch DS9, they haven’t seen three out of four of the TNG movies, look, I get it. Maybe they DO want to stay with what’s most familiar to most of the audience, sure. That makes sense. I’m not saying they’re bad because the torpedoes aren’t transphasic torpedoes, right!? I’m saying they’re bad, they’re stupid, they’re dumb because they think that casual audiences never noticed that the torpedoes went from auburn orange to blue-ish purple-ish, I’m saying they’re bad and stupid and dumb because if you’re going to have line after line of dialogue establishing how much firepower that ship has — and that’s what we hear! isolytic burst warheads, plasma torpedoes, antimatter missiles, pulse wave, Series 5 — you may as well make sure to give the bad guys the right torpedoes. Quantum torpedoes! Quantum torpedoes! And, yeah, I don’t think they’re just trying to give the audience what was on TNG because if they were then it’d just be something simpler. We’d be hearing photon torpedoes, sure, but we’d be hearing about phaser banks too! What’s going on here?

 

* “We are essentially cornered in space. Which has no corners.” Okay, that was good. I’m not a total grumpus!

 

* “This is no longer about Beverly only. This is also about you.” Okay, back to being garbage!

 

* Frakes’ line of “And we damn well know that’s not a ship” sounds ADR’d in.

 

* Liked the scene with Picard and Jack in the brig.

 

* Sneed’s namedrop of “Section 31” sounds ADR’d to me.

 

* That scene with Raffi and Sneed was pretty dumb but can’t complain considering how it ended!

 

* Have to give them credit for the final act and the decision to make Beverly and Picard’s reuniting entirely wordless.

 

* My hopes are low for what’s to come but ... Worf! Worf’s back! Can’t help but be a little psyched.

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Yeah, Worf's introduction was badass! Sneed was  pretty cool for a Ferengi. I had no clue it was Aaron Stanford, Pyro from the X-Men movies underneath all that makeup. I've always liked him as an actor.

I loved the wordless scene between Picard and Beverly towards the end confirming what we all know. It was great to see a scene like that with no dialogue and all facial expressions. 

Amanda Plummer as Vadic is certainly having fun and I'm enjoying her performance thus far. I've heard she's not a one dimensional villain from reviewers who have seen more episodes. I'm looking forward to seeing what her deal is.

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In real world terms, Vadic is like an international bounty hunter with WMDs who's managed to get her hands on a attack frigate, sitting off the coast of Florida in international waters, challenging the US Navy to turn over a prisoner because he's wanted in Zimbabwe or something. It's bonkers hahaha.

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I don’t want to defend the show — it’s bad! — but the idea of a captain being entitled to do basically whatever it takes to protect their ship when it is outside Federation space is something that was emphasized again and again for seven years on VOY.

 

There’s even a line of dialogue in the episode itself from Shaw (something like “Regulations are clear on this.” etcetera) to drive it home.

 

That sort of thing was dumb and bad then and it’s dumb and bad now but Shaw is just following in the example of Seven’s former captain here — she merked Tuvix, she annihilated Species 116, she tortured that crewman who later showed up on BSG, she unleashed the Vaadwuar on their victims, she did like ten other things — and Starfleet made her an admiral so it seems like it’s fine as far as they’re concerned that he’s handing over a guy to be killed maybe in order to protect his ship’s crew from being killed maybe too.

 

The episode is bad, well, it’s bad for a lot of reasons but it’s bad in this instance because the terms of the moral dilemma aren’t made super duper clear the way they’d have been in a good episode of TNG and DS9.

 

Nobody on the show even argues that they can’t trust Christopher Plummer’s daughter to not blow up the ship once she has Wesley 2.0!

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Quote

Nobody on the show even argues that they can’t trust Christopher Plummer’s daughter to not blow up the ship once she has Wesley 2.0!

That is true and one thing I am surprised wasn't argued.  I have to wonder if that was a bit of dialogue that might have been cut for time.  

 

 

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Every episode runs long! They have all the time in the world! Not a good enough excuse! A proper episode of Star Trek would have the situation sliced and diced from every angle by a series of unique choleric characters who’d share their particular avenue of approach with an authority figure who’d have to make the final call. This was just a morass of people making dumb dumb quasi-relevant half-points about what to do until Picard makes the ultimate decision on — admittedly a well-executed moment, have to give them credit — a whim.

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43 minutes ago, Darth Krawlie said:

So now that we’ve got Changelings I feel like there should at least be cameos by DS9 characters

Well, Rene Auberjonois passed away in 2019, and so did a few other cast members, but that is not a bad idea. 

My wish (that probably will never happen) would be to have a mini-series that includes Star Trek alumni that want to return from TNG, DS9, and Voy.  That, and a Romulan War miniseries featuring some ENT cast members. 

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2 hours ago, Darth Krawlie said:

So now that we’ve got Changelings I feel like there should at least be cameos by DS9 characters

I thought that too— but remembered Worf was there for half its run, haha.

But yeah, I feel like this season could end on setting up Seven as a Captain, and I’d totally watch a 25th century show with her and a mix of new characters and a few familiar faces from the TNG/DS9/VOY

Thought the Picard/Bev scene was amazing, thought the fight between Riker and Picard got extremely repetitive. Beyond that, solid fun episode:

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It's def the bast space porn from Trek in a long time. I HATED the copy/paste fleet from S1. Hate the hero ship they've had in all 3 seasons. Hated how Discovery treated ships as fast moving blinky lights with no weight. DETESTED the designs of the Abrams films.

The Titan feels old school and great-- but I will say this. Rewatched TWOK the other night for the 32456312th time, and the Ent-A in that movie still feels more real. CGI can rival model work, but it tends to over-do it with lighting and effects. Sometimes the Titan looks a little cartoony. 

But what no one seems to get is that half the reason the movie era ships looked so legit is because they were being shot with film cameras a slow speed. A flyby was achieved by having the 300 pound camera rig move past an immobile 12 foot model spaceship. That natural camera movement is programmed into me, and knowing that CG models can do any sort of movement they want is a thing my brain dislikes.

Also, they MUST be holding back the Enterprise-F for the fleet day parade, right? I'm a little surprised they went with the Titan over an Enterprise for S3-- in fact. It seems so odd to me I feel more and more like we're going to get the same sort of back-door set-up we got for Strange New Worlds in Disco when the Enterprise showed up there.

The graphic on Raffi's detective work showed the E-F and it had the tag "scheduled for early decommission". I know it's the ship designed for Star Trek Online, which they are trying to semi-canonize... wonder if they want to put away the video game ship to roll out a new design for a future show.

Can't remember if I posted this or not, but the end credits shows a graphic of the fleet museum Picard mentioned Geordi running in the first episode. One of the ships listed in its inventory (along with the Voyager) is the Enterprise-A. If THAT ship shows up in this season I will totally fanboy out.

 

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