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I almost feel sorry for you Democrats


94 replies to this topic

#26
Ms. Spam

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Kurgan said:

 

Stealing elections? These allegations always haunted Bush after 2000, just as the rigging of the DLC leadership race in 2016 dogged Clinton. 

Ignoring one's political platform and base of support once in office, and simply dancing to the tune of the wealthiest and most influential lobbyists? Yeah, I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

Does Elizabeth Warren going on about ending the electoral college qualify as something that would change this type of "rigging the election"? I mean we're getting more and more to the middle - not landslide wins - for many election cycles. There was that one election in the Carolinas that was called by drawing a name out of a hat. People want to blame the boogie man on Russian collusion but really a number of perfect storm factors went into what happened to get us to Trump. Gerrymandering. White man emasculation. Changing social norms and the costs of living and owning something in a consumer society.



#27
The Kurgan

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Does Elizabeth Warren going on about ending the electoral college qualify as something that would change this type of "rigging the election"? I mean we're getting more and more to the middle - not landslide wins - for many election cycles. There was that one election in the Carolinas that was called by drawing a name out of a hat. People want to blame the boogie man on Russian collusion but really a number of perfect storm factors went into what happened to get us to Trump. Gerrymandering. White man emasculation. Changing social norms and the costs of living and owning something in a consumer society.

To be honest, I think Warren's proposal comes from a position of Democrat butthurt. Had the figures been reversed, would she still be advocating for it? 2004 is the last time the G.O.P won a presidential election on both popular and electoral college votes. Prior to that you have to go back to the Bush Sr and Reagan era. So all other things being equal, the G.O.P would have held the White House only in 2004 to 2008, and would not hold it now had it just been by popular vote. So the partisan factor here is huge. Republicans have been stronger in other areas - congress since 1994, many local and state levels and if you look at the geographical map, the US appears strongly Republican. But for the Big Kahuna seat in Washington, not so much.

 

Looking at Trump's win, I wonder then about Obama's successes in '08 and '12. I don't think the demographics were fundamentally different in 2016, and the economy may actually have been better. At least compared to '08. The factors on the right hadn't changed much. The kinds of guys who had an issue with a black man with a middle eastern sounding name weren't voting democrat anyway and more than likely haven't since the 1980s, so I suspect that's moot here. I think there was disillusionment with Obama's presidency among progressives. Conservatives of course never liked him and they're almost universally Republican these days anyway so the dems need both moderates and progressives in order to win, and they didn't have that in 2016. A lot of progs LOATHED Hillary Clinton, even the sort who wanted a woman POTUS on principle (Seems to me Elizabeth Warren would be a good pick for those sorts). Another problem the dems are going to have is tension between the moderates and the left wing of the party, given that the later is becoming more ideologically strident. Think the Democratic Socialists of America types. They're shaping up to be the Tea Party of the left, and that's going to be a problem for them because the bulk of the electorate isn't really ideological one way or another. 


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#28
Ms. Spam

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Thanks. Man, I agree about democratic butt hurt ness.



#29
zambingo

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The Electoral College is only brought up for two reasons;

1. When tabulating votes on Election Night.
2. To whine about the winner after Election Night.

#30
Marc DuQuesne

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Look at the title of your thread. Look at the first line of my post. Same thing. Literally the same thing. You post a sweeping generalization about an entire party. So I did the same and you can't deal.


Sweeping generalization? Which one? That Democrats are Democrats? I made no generalization. Reading comprehension. It's a thing.

#31
Tank

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The generalization is that all Democrats are complicit and a party to what you are describing. You could have framed it as (what it actually is) a problem with our how the MSM portrays politics and how both parties in an effort to reach the largest numbers reduce things to simple binaries and we swing back and forth to more extremes.

Instead, you framed it as OH YOU DUMB LIBS.

My comprehension is just fine. Stop acting like you're the smartest person in the room.
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#32
Iceheart

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This thread, tl;dr version:

 

giphy.gif


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#33
Marc DuQuesne

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The strategy - https://www.google.c...gdHWGGV4yFOYGCA

Boost the fringe candidates (Trump/Cruz) with positive coverage as serious candidates while undermining moderate candidates (Rubio/Kasich/Bush) who would be more favorable to a broad base of voters in a general election.

The coverage: https://shorensteinc...tial-primaries/

They put their fingers on the scales to give the Republican candidate they thought was the worst an advantage, to help their team. The liberal media was Trump's best friend, until he had the primary secured. Then they cut loose with all the negative coverage they had saved up.

The conservative media doesn't have the juice to return the favor and you're still going to end up with a full blown Marxist.

#34
Cerina

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This thread country, tl;dr version:

 

giphy.gif

 

Fixed. 


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#35
Justus

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So you're sticking to the binary rhetoric, this making your post a lesson in irony, if not hypocrisy. Got it. : :thumbsup::

This from a guy who habitually stereotypes and rails against anyone with a meter even close to moving from the Left fringe to the center. Ohh, thy mirror....



#36
Tank

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Sorry, you waited too long to post. I've lost interest in this one. Try making up some untrue nonsense in another thread though!
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#37
Marc DuQuesne

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You didn't lose interest, you lost your mind. You played the stereotypical Democrat game, ignored everything I actually posted and made up a story that suited your purposes. Quote what you thought was such a negative generalization about Democrats in my OP, or surrender your base to me.
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#38
Brando

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This thread country Western culture, tl;dr version:
 
giphy.gif

 
Fixed.

Fixeded.
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#39
Metropolis

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Curious as to why you think Western culture is a dumpster fire.

#40
Marc DuQuesne

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Me too honestly.

#41
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Not to let Tank off the hook with the bumps. Because **** you, and the Jessie Smollett you rode in on too.

#42
Tank

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You didn't lose interest, you lost your mind. You played the stereotypical Democrat game, ignored everything I actually posted and made up a story that suited your purposes. Quote what you thought was such a negative generalization about Democrats in my OP, or surrender your base to me.

 

EDIT

 

I had a response written out about the irony of how everything you accuse me of is exactly what you do, which is the point I was trying to make. But you're so willingly obtuse, or an ***hole, that awaiting your response would just ruin my weekend.

 

You're a troll.

 

And despite posting here for 20 years, so is Justus. That's why instead of engaging Kurgan who actually gave him a lengthy response, he chose to snipe at me.

 

Neither of you really want to be a part of this community.

 

You come here solely to illicit a response. You cry foul whenever I take you to task and act like I am some sort of monster, hypocrite, bully, when all I am doing is disagreeing with you, or sarcastically pointing out your hypocrisy. Rarely do you wander out of the Lyceum, which is built for conflict, to talk about anything other than your politics-- and god forbid anyone respond in a way you don't favor.

 

I think the world has de-platformed you guys because of the way you choose to interact, and as a result you have to find outlets to where you have a more captive audience to listen to your nonsense. You don't come here to have conversations, you come here to talk down to people. 

 

As a new year's resolution I quit twitter and cut back on a lot of social media because I've learned that ***holes in the ether tend to effect my mood way more than they should.

 

It's my own fault for taking the bait, so I'll let you have your way and excuse myself from whatever nonsense you're trying to pass off as a profound statement with this thread. this bad mood I'm now in is my own fault, you don't get credit for that, which is all you really want I'm sure. I need to follow my own advice and not engage with people whose sole purpose online is to cause strife and make themselves feel superior.

 

Literally the only place in my life that people accuse me of being a piece of **** is right here in this forum, and I continually engage with you trolls because at first, I think it's fun. But it always stops being fun because I forget that people who have no human empathy like yourselves can go the distance I cannot because you do not give a single **** about anyone. 

 

So take back your idiotic thread, post your nonsense, and it will just drift down-page as it should since most people are smarter than I and will just ignore it.


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#43
Odine

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Curious as to why you think Western culture is a dumpster fire.

Where to begin??

From the way that our rampant consumerism chokes the life of other smaller nations and the nations that make our products which we sell for a pittance, while pumping out poisonous, noxious chemicals into the local environment. To the fact it takes 20,000 leters of water (in the production of cotton etc) to make a SINGLE pair of denim jeans that morons buy for a fiver from outlets by the millions of units. To the absolute complacency of humanity at large to do ANYTHING other than get fat and be entertained. To the financial and political divide between the ruling classes and the populace at large. To corporate lobbying of political parties that render the democratic power of your average citizen to 0% effectively, while at the same time we praise or own 'democracies' and decry, overthrow, and have proxy wars in other nations to try and "democratise" them. To our spiritual illiteracy that has vapid housewives (and house husbands) travelling to eastern nations to try and find some solace or meaning or personal depth like vampiric spiritual-culture tourists. Ironically to the same nations where the very clothes we wear were made by a child whose limbs have suffered chemical burns or happened to be in the factory under a collapsed roof. When all one needs to do to get in touch with their spirituality is go for a walk in nature and sit on a rock somewhere and just BE. To hormones in our food products, to the rate at which we consume meat, to the industrialised way in which meat is farmed, while "ethical" bloggers on social media pose doing yoga spouting eastern philosophy they picked up on that trip to India that time, to try get 40k followers so they can be sponsored to sell their designer yoga pants as an "influencer", while lifestyle bloggers smugly talk about downsizing their possessions which then become landfill they drop off in their Dodge RAM. To the acres of forests being mowed down for the mass production of almonds for milk for the self righteous vegan bloggers. Don't get me started on Soy and our demand for avocados. To the media pouring gasoline on the fire between people of opposing political beliefs even though they aren't that different so that one side is yelling NAZI! While they other is yelling "SJW LIBTARD!" while we drown in a morass of identity crisis, self-absorbed victimisation, mud slinging, hate speech, continually updating gender pronouns, and moral outrage despite the fact none of us actually have any in the first place, when it all comes down to it.

That dumpster fire enough?

I suppose some of those can apply to the east, but I don't live there so can't speak to that.

Edited by Odine, 06 April 2019 - 06:49 AM.

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#44
Brando

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Western Civilization is at real risk of disappearing purely due to birth rates. We're divided over everything, we're on the verge of a global recession because of the rise in nationalism, especially in Britain. And they keep making Transformers movies.
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#45
Metropolis

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Most of what you said Odine are the result of a society prosperous enough to allow what your said to happen. You can go on about how people don't live their lives in a more meaningful way, but that is free will. What we're lacking in is education. People that scream Nazi, don't know who the Nazis were or represented. Are we really at each other's throats these days or is a microphone or spotlight shown every little thing that shows some sort of divide?

And Bumblebee was a good movie Fozzie!

#46
Odine

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I mean, that doesn't negate anything I said from being true. Those are all realities of our world that you could use to describe it as a dumpster fire.

#47
Metropolis

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Maybe it's because I see "dumpster fire" as being in the actual process. There are things wrong in society that I believe can be turned around with a little bit of education. And some "sit down and shut the **** up".

#48
Iceheart

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Most of what you said Odine are the result of a society prosperous enough to allow what your said to happen. You can go on about how people don't live their lives in a more meaningful way, but that is free will.


Except that the people who made the decisions that have our entire society - not to mention the physical planet - in such dire straits are just a handful of rich old white men elites sitting on corporate and government boards. And seeing as how many of the decisions theyve made - sticking with running our society on non-renewable resources (and ****ing over minority and low-income communities to do it), marketing opioids as safe and non-addictive, factory farming and grossly stripping wild lands for resources like palm oil, essential public programs (paid for by our tax dollars) like education and health care getting some of the smallest percentages of funding compared to the military, and yet our troops still have to buy all their own field equipment with their own money while their families live on base in black mold-infested homes, etc, etc - are awfully harmful to people on an individual level, how is the free will of the common person in any way present here? Our 99%-er free will has been compromised by how our society has been set up and how we are forced to consume unethically to survive. Thats not true free will, thats greed and evil masquerading as salvation.
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#49
Marc DuQuesne

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Rome fell because the people decided Rome was never great. It became a dumpster fire because there was nothing to unify the population to fight in it's preservation. And Rome wasn't that great really, except compared to everything that came before and immediately after. It's the transition phase that sucks. I'm afraid we get to live in interesting times. If only we had the interesting people to go with them.

#50
Marc DuQuesne

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Tank - you didn't quote what was such a negative generalization of Democrats from my OP. You made up another story. You lose.



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