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Democratic Presidential Campaigns for 2020


317 replies to this topic

#76
El Chalupacabra

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I can understand Harris saying that she smoked weed back in the day because she is supporting the legalization of marijuana. That is a debate worthy of a thread unto itself.  I don't think her saying she smoked weed is that a big deal, personally.

 

But, what I would like to know is what accomplishments has Kamala Harris, a junior senator, done to warrant this big push to be a star and "next big thing" in the Dem party, lately?  Maybe it is to seem hip and cool?  Also, how does Harris reconcile being a Tupac and Snoop Dog fan (especially from the 1990s) with the inherent toxic masculinity and anti-female messages in rap music.  I thought feminists were opposed to women being called b*tches and hoes, let alone glorifying violence and criminal activity?  I would think a female senator of color would be opposed to rap music and calling for reform in the music industry, just as the #MeToo movement is calling for reform in film and TV.   How does rap and hip hop culture get a pass?  I mean seriously, where are feminists on that issue?  Harvey Weinstien and Les Moonves were taken down for the very same things that are regularly glorified in hip hop culture, and Snoop Dogg was literally a pimp. 



#77
Iceheart

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How does rap and hip hop culture get a pass?  I mean seriously, where are feminists on that issue? 

 

You want names, I can give you names. I can give you books on the subject, too.

 

But as a white girl, that's all I'm going to touch on this subject.



#78
Metropolis

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Intersectionality

#79
El Chalupacabra

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How does rap and hip hop culture get a pass?  I mean seriously, where are feminists on that issue? 

 

You want names, I can give you names. I can give you books on the subject, too.

 

But as a white girl, that's all I'm going to touch on this subject.

 

Books and in academia, sure, I know feminist critics exist, but what I am talking about is public figures and news coverage.  And it shouldn't even be about race, so anyone regardless of their ethnic background should be able to question why hip hop and rap largely gets a pass on this subject.  It should be about being intellectually honest and consistent.  And I think it is ridiculous that Kamala Harris can claim to be for equal rights and present herself as a feminist, yet also presents herself as a Snoop Dogg or 2pac fan.  The two are mutually exclusive.



#80
Iceheart

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And I think it is ridiculous that Kamala Harris can claim to be for equal rights and present herself as a feminist, yet also presents herself as a Snoop Dogg or 2pac fan.  The two are mutually exclusive.

 

No, they're not.

 

First of all, equal/feminist rights includes embracing your sexual proclivities. If being a submissive sexual partner is a woman's thing, and hip-hop lyrics are a turn on for her, that's valid and feminist. Feminists do not have to be asexual, nor do they have to be dominatrices. 

 

Second of all, she only named two of the biggest names in hip-hop ever. There are cultural connotations there that I can sense but can't unpack because White Girl.

 

The cultural connotations I can unpack are pretty glaringly obvious. Snoop and Pac are two of the biggest rappers that have come out of California - Harris's home state and the state she represents - but that aren't the artists who did **** Tha Police (she was California's AG, after all). Nowadays, Snoop is every stoner's cool baked uncle, and Harris is pro-legalization, which was what the interview was all about. And Pac is pretty much a martyred saint.

 

Third, problematic faves are definitely a thing. I do worry about what young kids and particularly impressionable adults think when all they hear on the radio is songs about sex and being sexy and always being sexually available and nothing else (and that goes for top 40 pop and top 40 country, too, the entire Holy Trinity of radio is highly problematic at this point in time), and I also worry about what this is doing to the historically over-sexualized perception of black girls in our culture, but that doesn't mean that I don't put on a full, overblown, both parts lip-sync performance whenever Yo Gotti's Rake It Up comes on.

 

The way the majority of feminists seem to be dealing with living in a misogynistic music culture, myself included, is by supporting artists, usually underground artists, who make music in the genre you like with lyrics you can actually get behind, and enjoying the problematic stuff sporadically. Thankfully, that's actually possible these days with how equalizing internet streaming has made music consumption. Hopefully, the more we support it, the more the non-problematic stuff becomes more mainstream. This is why I cheered when Kacey Musgraves swept the Grammys, and Janelle Monae finally blew the **** up after being slept on for years. The shift is happening, it's just happening slowly.



#81
Iceheart

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Anyway...

 

BERNIE 2020 IS OFFICIALLY A THING.

 

Not Bernie winning the race, per se, but Bernie running the race.



#82
Ms. Spam

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Ha. I was about to come in and post "Oh yay. Bernie." I think he should give guidance but not run. Still waiting on Beto. But now rumours are swirling that Beto may run for Cornyn's seat. Which I would be okay with too in a state like Texas. YEEEEEEHAAAAAW!



#83
Iceheart

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Yeah, I agree, Bernie should be mentoring, not running.

#84
Brando

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I don't think Bernie believes anyone else is capable

#85
El Chalupacabra

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I don't think Bernie believes anyone else is capable

Sad thing is he is right, based on the current crop who threw their hats in the ring. But is he, a 77 year old, capable?

If he wins the democratic nom, they might as well swear Trump into his second term right after.  

 

I hate the current state of US politics.  



#86
El Chalupacabra

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And to your post # 80 Icy, while I like debate, I like you more. This is a touchy subject, which I really don't want to get into, and probably shouldn't have brought up in the first place. It's not worth it to me to turn this into an argument, or say something that might offend you or anyone else trying to debate this topic. I am going to drop the subject, but I don't concede it, either. I am just going to have to agree to disagree, because I disagree with you on most of what you state in that post.  But I don't think I can refute what you're saying without going full on Poe-mode*, and probably spending some time researching that I really don't have right now.  Clearly you put some thought into your response though, so I acknowledge that.  Case closed as far as I am concerned.

 

*and by that, I mean quoting sentence by sentence.  Not the being a jerk about it part.  



#87
Iceheart

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I am going to drop the subject, but I don't concede it, either. I am just going to have to agree to disagree, because I disagree with you on most of what you state in that post.  But I don't think I can refute what you're saying without going full on Poe-mode*, and probably spending some time researching that I really don't have right now.  Clearly you put some thought into your response though, so I acknowledge that.  Case closed as far as I am concerned.

 

I'm going to say one thing before dropping the subject myself, which I even said previously that I didn't want to get into.

 

You're more than welcome to have philosophical opinions about feminism, but do keep in mind that it's something that affects my life and Kamala Harris' life FAR more than it does yours, and I am drawing lived experience into my debate points, which you cannot do.



#88
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Kamala Harris is far from a feminist. She dated a married man(30 years older than her) to advance her career. Isn't that disqualifying?

#89
Ms. Spam

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Not any more. *shrug*



#90
Tank

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Kamala Harris is far from a feminist. She dated a married man(30 years older than her) to advance her career. Isn't that disqualifying?


How do you define feminism?

#91
Justus

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Kamala Harris is far from a feminist. She dated a married man(30 years older than her) to advance her career. Isn't that disqualifying?

If you're referring to Willie Brown, someone needs to ask her about that man's well-known relationship with Jim Jones, and his saying he had "no regrets" about that deep association. The point being if she's A-Okay with having an involved relationship with a man who was a beneficiary and enabler of Jim Jones and his fake church, then that says much about her character.



#92
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Kamala Harris is far from a feminist. She dated a married man(30 years older than her) to advance her career. Isn't that disqualifying?

How do you define feminism?
I don't define it. Though I wouldn't think that a feminist would use a successful man to get her foot in the door and then better and better jobs.

#93
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Why not? It was an option open to her and she took it. That has nothing to do with being a feminist. 

I'm getting the sense that some of you don't quite define feminism the way most feminists do. 


  • Tank and The Kurgan +1 this

#94
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Or rather refuse to define it, but say what it isn't.

#95
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The traits of what constitutes feminism are pretty amorphous and differ from person to person, no? 3rd wave, raunch feminism etc.. They're going to have significantly different ideas of feminism than someone like Germaine Greer who still thinks trans women are mentally ill men who self mutilate (their genitals). So you know...

Edited by Odine, 22 February 2019 - 02:38 AM.


#96
Justus

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The traits of what constitutes feminism are pretty amorphous and differ from person to person, no? 3rd wave, raunch feminism etc...

Exactly, but the post-New Left of today will have you think their definition is the hardline cover-all for all feminists, when that's far from the truth. For example, there are pro-life feminists, but the post-New Left yells "impossible", even when they meet people who describe themselves as that.



#97
Metropolis

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Or rather refuse to define it, but say what it isn't.

When I was growing up feminism was basically a woman can do anything a man can do. There is still that faction, but now is goes as far as the she woman male haters club. The women that don't need a man. In any form, it would seem like sleeping your way to the top would be frowned upon. The more I think about it though, if John Kerry can do why not a woman?

#98
Odine

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I mean.. everyone is prejudiced. Even (especially in some cases?) lefty "progressive" (whatever that means) liberal types. Conservatives absolutely too. 

 

My wife used to house-share with a lesbian, who at one point was questioning her sexuality because she was developing romantic and sexual feelings for a male coworker. She told my wife (not my wife at the time, obvs) and was asking for advice, and said that she couldn't tell or confide in her circle of lesbian friends because they would ostrocize her. Bizzare.

 

Anyway... Bernie for president? Sure if you want to have a defibulator on standby at all times for your president. That said, Trumpy Trumps probably has one of those on the go at all times too.


Edited by Odine, 22 February 2019 - 05:58 AM.


#99
Justus

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Even Kamala Harris' own father has issues with her recent, proud trip down pot-smoking lane and her implications:

 

Kamala Harris’s dad on her pot-smoking comment: Our family wants to ‘dissociate ourselves from this travesty

 

I will not be surprised if  her campaign (i.e. various ends of the news media) will work overtime attempting to silence or dig up dirt on dear 'ol dad. After all, how dare he criticize The One--and her linking pot smoking to being part Jamaican with her idiotic "Half my family’s from Jamaica. / Are you kidding me?”" slur? Who needs Limbaugh and Company when you have all-over-the-place Harris doing the job of racial/ethnic stereotypes for them?



#100
Tank

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Or rather refuse to define it, but say what it isn't.

When I was growing up feminism was basically a woman can do anything a man can do. There is still that faction, but now is goes as far as the she woman male haters club. The women that don't need a man. In any form, it would seem like sleeping your way to the top would be frowned upon. The more I think about it though, if John Kerry can do why not a woman?

Right, people with different views can use the sane kabel for themselves, but you're picking the type you dislike most and use that to define them all.



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