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Relationship Advice


25 replies to this topic

#1
Zerimar Nyliram

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Wasn't sure what to entitle this thread.

Some of you may recall my recent thread about a young lady I was seeing last year, really liked, and was bummed about when it turned out she did not feel the same way. Well, this thread is about a different girl, but the situation is slightly different.

See, unlike the previous girl, who wanted to take things extremely slowly and never engaged in any acts of affection, this new girl was more than happy to kiss, make out, go to second base, and even make plans to have sex. It was moving in the right direction, with one major exception: I did not really have any romantic feelings toward her, even though I thought she was awesome and enjoyed her company. I guess I learned from getting burned the last time to not go balls deep, avoiding investing too much emotion at the beginning lest I set myself up for disappointment again. It turns out, it was a good thing I didn't become overly attached this time because she texted me one morning this week saying that she didn't feel any romantic connection between us (despite steaming things up in my car last weekend, our hands wondering where they would, and her telling me she wanted me physically).

 

You see, she's six years older than me and have four kids: two older teenagers from her first marriage, and two younger kids from a guy she was with for about five years. She moved from New Jersey to my area (Pittsburgh), where her family still lives (including her two older kids) and she goes up there on weekends at least once a month. (I think these factors made me even more hesitant to invest any feelings.) Further, she actually lives about an hour and a half away from me, and we would meet in the city on weekends when she had time, which wasn't every week. In other words, there were long periods apart. In fact, when we saw each other last weekend, it was after about a solid month, where she had spent time with her family for Thanksgiving weekend, then went on vacation to California for a week, then spend the following weekend with her sister who was in town. And if there's one thing I know from experience, it's that a month apart kills a new romance, so I'm sure that played a role as well.

Like I said, I'm not too shaken up about the romantic side of it, but man, we did have a strong physical attraction to one another. I was thinking of asking her how she might feel about seeing that particular facet to conclusion, not necessarily becoming friends with benefits but just taking it where it seemed to be heading and seeing what happens. Out of all my relationships that ended in the early stages (there were far too many of those), one thing I always regret most (once feelings of romance lost are faded away) is not getting to sleep with these women.

What do you guys think about this, and is there any advice you might offer on how to propose such an idea? She knows I still have a Christmas gift to give her and has agreed to remain friends, so I'm thinking I might be able to arrange a meeting and bring it up then, if not do it over the phone.

And my second, more important question is this: I'm someone who has grown up with a lot of issues, having great difficulty connecting with people in general. Forming friendships have been difficult, so naturally dating has been a nightmare for most of my life. But with much study and finally coming to be comfortable in my own skin and gaining a lot more confidence and self-esteem, I feel I am finally starting to "get it" when it comes to getting a girlfriend. Now I guess the thing I need to master is keeping a girlfriend. Like I said, I struggle with connections. Can anyone offer any advice?

Oh yeah, and I met this girl once night when I went out clubbing. By myself. I do almost everything by myself. I sat next to her in a twenty-four-seven eatery when she was there with her best friend and chatted her up. So no speed dating this time, just good old-fashioned talking to a girl I thought was pretty.

Thanks for listening, and merry Christmas!


-John



#2
Tank

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Well here's me---

 

Keeping in mind I am a super liberal, non-religious, child of liberal hippies that went to art school, and has been in multiple open relationships and is anti-shaming of people whom are sex positive...

 

It is possible for men and women to be friends without a sexual relationship. Anyone who says otherwise has hang ups.

 

It is possible to have a friendship with a sexual side that is not romantic.

 

It is possible to have romantic feelings, but not be attracted sexually.

 

And it is possible to be sexually attracted to somebody as well as desire them romantically.

 

Our society via both religion, as well as mainstream pop culture have programmed us to think that things must fit into a box. But every relationship is different. As long as two people are on the same page, and chose to follow the same rules, you can do whatever you want.

 

THAT said-- deep down, we are wired for desiring connections with other humans. And sometimes, that desire can change and evolve. Sex has a way of manipulating those desires in one direction or another. Feelings also change, so the key to a relationship is finding the person that stays in sync with you, or is at least willing to evolve with you.  While it may seem impossible, I think it's easier than it sounds once you really stop over-thinking it.

 

All that said, I think true intimacy and trust, the kind you'd want in a relationship, requires you to have friend feelings, sex feelings, and relationship feelings. Any other combination is sort of on a time clock.

 

You can have sex only friends, but eventually, it will start to lose its lustre. You can have friends with benefits, but at some point somebody will change their mind about how they feel and want more or less than the other person. A romantic relationship without sex will eventually begin to feel as though it lacks intimacy.

 

I think you owe it to your self, and her, to define where things are. She clearly wasn't afraid to tell you how she felt, so you should feel just as much freedom to respond. You're not an a-hole (unless it has something to do with the EU), so there's no reason to think that talking to her about that sort of thing will come of as creepy or rude or anything. Worst case scenario, she doesn't want the parameters of your relationship to be the same. You lived before knowing her, you'll live after-- especially if she's not always around.

 

From what you describe, she sounds like a woman who has spent most of her young-adultness being a mother and unhappy wife, and now she's realized it's okay to be a little selfish and want things for herself. You provided a plow-pressure partner scenario for her, which is the kind of relationship she wants/needs at this stage in her life. If anything, that aligns with what you want. Again, that sort of relationship has a timeline, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy it for the time being.


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#3
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What do you guys think about this, and is there any advice you might offer on how to propose such an idea? She knows I still have a Christmas gift to give her and has agreed to remain friends, so I'm thinking I might be able to arrange a meeting and bring it up then, if not do it over the phone.

 

I only know as much as the next guy (and maybe less than some), but:

 

1. I wasn't quite clear, but it seemed to me you are considering asking this woman if she would still like to have a physical relationship, so I am going off that assumption.  Do what you want, but my advice would be don't ask her for sex at this point.  That's kind of tacky, to be honest.  You might have been able to be physical at some point in the past, but right now, I don't think its likely because you both realized this isn't going to work out, and it's usually not a good idea to dwell on what might have been.  That's looking backward.  If you want her to be a friend, be a platonic friend. 

 

2.  I think you should find someone closer to where you live.  Sure, long distance relationships can work, but usually only if that relationship was already established before it becomes long distance.  It's very hard to have a successful long distance relationship if that is how it starts out in the beginning.  

 

3.  Unless/until you are fully prepared to take on the responsibility of it all, don't date single moms*.  A single woman who works and has kids, has a lot on her shoulders already.  Sure, you might find the unicorn out there that wants only sex out of you, but that is usually not the norm and without getting too deep into all kinds of generalities and mansplaining, most single moms are not looking for what you are looking for.  They've lived life and have a far different worldview than you do.   Yeah, everyone is different, but I think for the most part, single moms generally are focused on their family, not scoring a casual physical relationship. Also, realize that you will always come second.  That is not a bad thing, because that is what moms are supposed to do: put their family, particularly their kids, before everything else.  But that is something you would have to accept right off the bat and understand.   It takes a responsible and mature person with patience to date a single parent, and I think someone like you might not be prepared for that, yet (based on your described dating and relationship history).    

 

*Don't take that as me saying don't date single moms, ever.  Just saying don't do it unless you are willing to accept certain realities and responsibilities. 

 

4.  Nothing wrong at all dating someone older than you, if you have something in common and enjoy each others' company.  Age is just a number.  

 

5.  There's nothing wrong with having a non-serious physical relationship....as long as everyone involved is good with it,  ground rules are established, and everyone is honest with one another.  But I have to agree with Tank on everything he said above on the topic, and he said it better than I can.

 

 

 

And my second, more important question is this: I'm someone who has grown up with a lot of issues, having great difficulty connecting with people in general. Forming friendships have been difficult, so naturally dating has been a nightmare for most of my life. But with much study and finally coming to be comfortable in my own skin and gaining a lot more confidence and self-esteem, I feel I am finally starting to "get it" when it comes to getting a girlfriend. Now I guess the thing I need to master is keeping a girlfriend. Like I said, I struggle with connections. Can anyone offer any advice?

My advice would be to continue to learn about yourself and identify what it is that you want out of life and in a relationship.   Also, continue to date.  Even when a date ends up on just being a date, and it doesn't go anywhere, it still is a learning experience, and helps you identify what it is you want, or don't want.  I think if you continue to do that, your self confidence will increase, and you will be more likely to find someone who will make you happy.



#4
Tank

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1. I wasn't quite clear, but it seemed to me you are considering asking this woman if she would still like to have a physical relationship, so I am going off that assumption.  Do what you want, but my advice would be don't ask her for sex at this point.  That's kind of tacky, to be honest. 


You're not wrong, but it has already sort of drifted in that direction.

I think honesty should come before politeness sometimes, especially in situations like this.

How many times have we all heard a dude complained about being "friend-zoned"? 90% of the time this is a dude being pejorative about a girl who, after not being clear about his feelings, insists she strung him along. Not that Zerimar is this kind of dude-- but I am a firm believer of being 100% honest with women. The more you obscure or hide your true thoughts, the more it's going to skew things.

Now, I'm not saying you should just tell every woman you want to bone, cause that is tacky.

But if they have a friendship, and it's been physical already, there's ways to go about the conversation without being uncouth or gross.

#5
Brando

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I'm going to ignore the aspect of how she might react and offer some other stuff to think about:

Are you okay with the type of relationship you're describing? Honestly, are you okay with, for example, having sex with her while she's looking for someone else? For her to say "Sorry, I like this other guy so we're done"? It seems like you're looking for more than an orgasm, and you seem like the type who would be unsatisfied with something purely physical.

I'm not your confidant, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I have a completely wrong read on you, but if you want a relationship, someone who is going to love you and be there for you and support you, don't settle for less.

#6
Zerimar Nyliram

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Well no, like I said, I'm not necessarily looking for a friends-with-benefits type of deal, because I don't think I would enjoy that. It's not who I am. What I'm saying is that, although we didn't connect romantically, we were clearly physically attracted to one another and seemed to be on the same page about where it was heading. I want to see if we could follow that same course to completion, whether it's one time only or what have you.

I have a female friend who used to date this girl, but she always had a mutual sexual attraction with her brother. After the girls had broken up, one drunken night, my friend and the brother slept together, and that was the end of it. They remained friends, but no more sexual tension because they felt they followed that thread to its end point, got there, were satisfied, and then they were done with it. Now, I'm not saying that that situation was the best way to bring that about, or that it's cool to bang your ex's brother, but I think you get the point.



#7
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1. I wasn't quite clear, but it seemed to me you are considering asking this woman if she would still like to have a physical relationship, so I am going off that assumption.  Do what you want, but my advice would be don't ask her for sex at this point.  That's kind of tacky, to be honest. 


You're not wrong, but it has already sort of drifted in that direction.

I think honesty should come before politeness sometimes, especially in situations like this.

How many times have we all heard a dude complained about being "friend-zoned"? 90% of the time this is a dude being pejorative about a girl who, after not being clear about his feelings, insists she strung him along. Not that Zerimar is this kind of dude-- but I am a firm believer of being 100% honest with women. The more you obscure or hide your true thoughts, the more it's going to skew things.

Now, I'm not saying you should just tell every woman you want to bone, cause that is tacky.

But if they have a friendship, and it's been physical already, there's ways to go about the conversation without being uncouth or gross.

 

Well the point I was making, based on my interpretation at the time, was that it sounded to me like ZM was saying the door had closed.  Trying to reopen it, in my view, would be a mistake.  If I was incorrect in that assumption, yeah, I agree with you.  But if the window of opportunity has in fact closed, I personally wouldn't call the girl and say "Hey, I have a Christmas present for you.  BTW, wanna have sex?"  Over-simplification, I am sure, but that's what I meant by tacky.  

 

Oh, and that's just my input.  Anyone who wants to listen to me, does so at their own peril!  :p



#8
Metropolis

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In a perfect world a guy and a girl could just have a physical relationship sans all the problems. In the real world something happens and your booty call gets disconnected. I'd say just move on because this could become more complicated than you want it to.

#9
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1. I wasn't quite clear, but it seemed to me you are considering asking this woman if she would still like to have a physical relationship, so I am going off that assumption.  Do what you want, but my advice would be don't ask her for sex at this point.  That's kind of tacky, to be honest. 

You're not wrong, but it has already sort of drifted in that direction.

I think honesty should come before politeness sometimes, especially in situations like this.

How many times have we all heard a dude complained about being "friend-zoned"? 90% of the time this is a dude being pejorative about a girl who, after not being clear about his feelings, insists she strung him along. Not that Zerimar is this kind of dude-- but I am a firm believer of being 100% honest with women. The more you obscure or hide your true thoughts, the more it's going to skew things.

Now, I'm not saying you should just tell every woman you want to bone, cause that is tacky.

But if they have a friendship, and it's been physical already, there's ways to go about the conversation without being uncouth or gross.
 
Well the point I was making, based on my interpretation at the time, was that it sounded to me like ZM was saying the door had closed.  Trying to reopen it, in my view, would be a mistake.  If I was incorrect in that assumption, yeah, I agree with you.  But if the window of opportunity has in fact closed, I personally wouldn't call the girl and say "Hey, I have a Christmas present for you.  BTW, wanna have sex?"  Over-simplification, I am sure, but that's what I meant by tacky.  
 
Oh, and that's just my input.  Anyone who wants to listen to me, does so at their own peril!  :p

1. Cut a hole in the box
2. Put your junk in that box
3. Make her open that box. And that's the way you do it
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#10
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1. Cut a hole in the box
2. Put your junk in that box
3. Make her open that box. And that's the way you do it

 

Imagine if Van Gogh did that instead of the ear.



#11
Destiny Skywalker

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I think she already told you no thanks and you should respect that.
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#12
Zerimar Nyliram

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I . . . feel you're right. ****, man. So close.



#13
Tank

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I think she already told you no thanks and you should respect that.


If she was clear, definitely. Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounded like she was open to non definition. If she was moving on moving on, going back to ask for one tumbke before she goes prob isnt cool.

I was under the impression she wanted to hold it where it was.

#14
Zerimar Nyliram

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Here's the exact text (which came just two days after really heating things up in the car, mind you):


Hi, hope you are doing well. It has been fun getting to know you. We had great times. You are an awesome guy, but I don't feel a romantic connection between us. Thanks again for all the great conversations we shared and being there for me. I wish you good luck out there.


After I asked her what was happening now, she said she's still a friend and not going away.

Just wish I wasn't stuck with this stupid ****ing Christmas present I bought her.



#15
Metropolis

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Yeah just move on. She kinda sounds like a freak so you never know if she'll come back a knocking.

#16
Tank

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Yeah, it sounds like she wants to cool it down. It's best to do exactly that.

You can still give her the gift... unless it was a sex toy of some sort.

#17
Zerimar Nyliram

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Nah, it's just a crocheted mermaid blanket and a classy bathrobe. Things to keep her warm for the winter.



#18
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Let her go, she has made it pretty clear and any pursuit isn't worth the energy.

Forgive my bluntness, but it seems what you want is to simply get laid, get the poison out and all that. You've not tried Tinder or other equivalent apps?

#19
Zerimar Nyliram

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So we talked and, as I expected, she is not DTF. She said she stopped before it reached that point because it would have been meaningless without the feelings.

And the grapes are snatched away once again.



#20
Zerimar Nyliram

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On top of that, here's my problem: while I have excelled in confidence in the past five or so years, there's another hurdle I'm trying to overcome: I'm the guy that girls are too comfortable with. The one who understands, who listens, whom they can trust. That's good, but it's to the point where it overcomes any romantic connection. She said as much, and I think that was the problem I had with the last girl as well. This is probably my main problem right now.



#21
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Yousa lady not a man?

I have to admit I didn't see that one coming. No offense intended! I think that may change much advice given.

#22
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Pretty sure that was a mistake, since Zerimar has spoken about considering the priesthood before. The Orthodox don't have female priests.

Unless Zerimar is transgender, which is possible.

#23
Zerimar Nyliram

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Pretty sure I've stated my gender (male) and explained the origins of my name many times on here, including in my last thread I linked to at the top. Most people got the memo but a handful didn't.



#24
Metropolis

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You did, but that post sure say "I'm the girl". I was confused for a second there as well.
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#25
Zerimar Nyliram

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My bad. Fixed it.





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