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Assumptions you made about the PT before seeing it.


52 replies to this topic

#26
Tank

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I assumed the prequels would be good.


I'm mad I didn't make this post first.
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#27
Jacen123

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I assumed that Jedi all vanished when they died.  The EU may have had something to do with that.

Yeah, it's sort of like Superman supposedly being the only Kryptonian to survive the destruction of Krypton.  Except for General Zod.  And Supergirl.  And Kandor City.  And Krypto the Superdog.

 

But hey, we had EU novels and video games to sell in the 1990s!

 

To be fair, every Jedi we saw die in the OT vanished, so I'd say it was a very reasonable assumption for the EU authors to make.


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#28
El Chalupacabra

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I assumed that Jedi all vanished when they died.  The EU may have had something to do with that.

Yeah, it's sort of like Superman supposedly being the only Kryptonian to survive the destruction of Krypton.  Except for General Zod.  And Supergirl.  And Kandor City.  And Krypto the Superdog.

 

But hey, we had EU novels and video games to sell in the 1990s!

 

To be fair, every Jedi we saw die in the OT vanished, so I'd say it was a very reasonable assumption for the EU authors to make.

 

Well, in ANH, Obi Wan states that Vader helped the Emperor hunt down and kill the jedi.  Also, Grand Moff Tarkin stated to Vader that he was all that was left.  Finally, in ROTJ, Yoda tells Luke once he is gone, Luke will be the last jedi.  SO, before the EU graphic novels and Thrawn trilogy, I took it at face value that Obi Wan and Yoda were the only Jed that survived the purge.  When the EU novels and comics came out,  and the video games soon after (Kyle Katarn games), one by one, it is revealed there were other survivors.  Then the PT (ROTS, specifically), TCW, an SWR, compounded this with even more survivors.  

 

That is what I meant by my Superman comment...the jedi were all gone, until they weren't.  I know my last post might have been confusing, so i thought i would clarify.


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#29
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Ahh. I wasn't thinking about that at all.  I was thinking about Luke's new Jedi when they died.


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#30
Zerimar Nyliram

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But the new canon has done exactly the same thing the EU did before it by presenting other Jedi survivors of the purge still alive after Return of the Jedi, most notably Ahsoka. You would think that they would have been quick to "correct" this "mistake," but apparently LucasFilm still sees no contradiction. That tells me that Yoda's comment meant something deeper, perhaps that only he and Luke still adhered their allegiance to the Jedi Order and its continuance. But this is just pure speculation on my part.

 

I personally like this because it makes the Star Wars universe seem more real, since history is extremely nuanced and often differs from how it is recorded, usually being a lot less poetic or romantic.



#31
El Chalupacabra

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But the new canon has done exactly the same thing the EU did before it by presenting other Jedi survivors of the purge still alive after Return of the Jedi, most notably Ahsoka. You would think that they would have been quick to "correct" this "mistake," but apparently LucasFilm still sees no contradiction. That tells me that Yoda's comment meant something deeper, perhaps that only he and Luke still adhered their allegiance to the Jedi Order and its continuance. But this is just pure speculation on my part.

 

I personally like this because it makes the Star Wars universe seem more real, since history is extremely nuanced and often differs from how it is recorded, usually being a lot less poetic or romantic.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't making a judgement one way or the other.  Just making a comparison.  I like some of the old EU, particularly the Kyle Katarn games.  



#32
Filthy Jawa

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Ahsoka wasn't a Jedi in the end so what Yoda said was true, from a certain point of view.
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#33
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Good point.  She left the Jedi Order.  Jedi all in but name, but not technically a jedi.  



#34
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Which is a huge cop out cause as awesone as Dave Filoni is, he struggles with killing his characters off. I love Ahsoka, but she should have died when she faced off with Vader.

#35
Filthy Jawa

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Didn't she? I thought she did. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong.

#36
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Ezra saved her with some weird Force-time travel stuff. Vader was still his bad ass old self but it did kind of feel lame Filoni didn't have the balls to kill her off. The last time we see her was in some scene post RoTJ in Rebels. As obvious as it was, her end story should have always been related to Vader. 



#37
Zerimar Nyliram

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Dave Filoni? Awesome? I personally think the guy can't write to save his life, but to each his own, I guess.

If that's true of Ahsoka (I'm pretty sure there were others as well, but I can't be certain because I don't follow the new canon) then you can make the same argument for the EU. Only Obi-Wan and Yoda still believed in the Order, while the rest gave up on it believing it was gone. Sure, they still retained their lightsabers and Force powers, but those things do not a Jedi make. I guess it could be interpreted as a cop-out, but I rather like the idea that Yoda has this romanticized view of the remaining Jedi which "actual" history proves technically false. How many things is this true for in real life? It's like Christopher Columbus and his crew believing the Earth was flat, or George Washington and the cherry tree.



#38
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You only dislike Filoni because TCW ran slipshod over the EU. For most of us, TCW was what we wanted the prequels to be.
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#39
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Anakin as shown in TCW is a lot closer to what I assumed we would get in the PT.  AOTC Anakin, not so much.  ROTS Anakin was OK, but of the "3 versions" (I say 3 because I differentiate between AOTC and ROTS) , I like the TCW version best.   He even was technically a spice freighter pilot in the early episodes of TCW, so Uncle Owen didn't lie in ANH! I personally love that call back/Easter Egg.



#40
Zerimar Nyliram

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You only dislike Filoni because TCW ran slipshod over the EU. For most of us, TCW was what we wanted the prequels to be.

That's maybe half of it, but the show was mostly garbage. He did have some really good episodes, usually ones having to do with the clones; but for every good episode there were two terrible episodes. His philosophies don't make sense and run contrary to those of George Lucas (especially in the Mortis episodes), he does lots of pointless fan service (like resurrecting Darth Maul), and so many other things that I don't care to expound upon because I have done so countless times on these boards. Admittedly, his Anakin was pretty good, at least in the early seasons. 

But really, as someone who has experienced so much of the EU (and the show was indeed just glorified EU before the decanonization), as a whole, I'd rank it pretty far down out of all the stories out there. For me, the most enjoyable Clone Wars stories came from Tartakovsky's micro-series and the Republic comics. These were the stories I'd always envisioned when anticipating the Clone Wars era. Admittedly, most of the novels were mediocre at best, aside from Matthew Stover's brilliant Shatterpoint. That novel had an influence on my own writing.



#41
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I dont know how his philosophies contract Lucas since he was mentoring him and was technically the show runner...and Im pretty sure it was Lucass idea to bring Maul back.

That said I agree with you, for every great episode there was generally a really ****ty one as well. But I try to remember it was still a kids show, so they werent aiming half those episodes at me anyway.

#42
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I don't know, it's seeming to me more and more as though Lucas' role was greatly exaggerated. Apart from releasing the film and throwing out some ideas, it seems he considered it nothing more than a glorified EU project. He had just as much oversight, if not more, on The Force UnleashedDark Empire, the Ewoks films, New Jedi Order, etc. The most damning piece of evidence, I think, was Filoni keeping Ahsoka alive when Lucas clearly wanted her killed off. And like I said, the Mortis episodes and the notion of balance completely go against everything Lucas ever said the balance entailed.



#43
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From the two people I know that wrote on the show, Filoni ran it day to day, but he had semi weekly meetings with George to have him sign off on everything. George's level if investment varied from simple yays and nays, to giving notes if he liked a pitch, and once a season he'd come in and take over for a few weeks either greatly improving or totally ruining an episode (depending on who you ask).

And yeah, Filoni wasn't perfect. I hate the Mortis stuff, it IS a kid's show-- but he got the characters right where the PT did not.

#44
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I couldnt get into Clone Wars. I watched the first few episodes and it just didn't grab me. I liked Rebels much better. Overall on that show I think Filoni was good with stuff like "the good guys go on mission, run into trouble, get out of it..." and also with showing the beginning of the rebellion. Anything with The Force was hit and miss at best. 



#45
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Totally agree on that last point.

#46
Darth Wicket

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One of the things I liked about the Clone Wars was that it was a TV show with all the characters from the movies (as well as some new ones). I wish we had gotten a TV show like that (with all the characters from the OT) when I was a kid. Instead, we got Ewoks and Droids.  :shrug:


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#47
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Which is a huge cop out cause as awesone as Dave Filoni is, he struggles with killing his characters off. I love Ahsoka, but she should have died when she faced off with Vader.

Well agreed, didn't she die until Ezra traveled back in time to bring her to the (then) present?  Which begs the question of which is the bigger cop out!



#48
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From the two people I know that wrote on the show, Filoni ran it day to day, but he had semi weekly meetings with George to have him sign off on everything. George's level if investment varied from simple yays and nays, to giving notes if he liked a pitch, and once a season he'd come in and take over for a few weeks either greatly improving or totally ruining an episode (depending on who you ask).

And yeah, Filoni wasn't perfect. I hate the Mortis stuff, it IS a kid's show-- but he got the characters right where the PT did not.

I'd love to know which episodes that Lucas took control of that didn't go over so well.



#49
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The Jar Jar episode was one of them.

#50
El Chalupacabra

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The Jar Jar episode was one of them.

I'm no fan of Jar Jar for sure, but that wasn't a horrible episode.  And I say that knowing most people probably hated it. 

 

The one with the Zillo Beast was pretty dumb, though.  





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